To respond, CS being parried is a very real issue on multiple fights, it just isn't noticed very much because it is still a small chance that it will infact be parried.
Jin'rokh loves to turn around and cast balls at people, though it is rare enough you can easily time it in your favor.
Council - Both casters spam at random people, constantly turning, not to mention dealing with your tank randomly turning him to avoid charge lightning. The turning issue can be mitigated with a well positioned raid.
Magaera - You spend half the fight standing in front of the boss for Rampage (though I'm not sure if they actually parry, I personally haven't noticed it happening).
Durumu - nuff said
Iron Qon - He turns and throws shit at your melee constantly during the first fire phase, though it is a small portion of the fight, and during the final phase his face smash crap.
Twins - Do all sorts of shit, actually my biggest gripe with that fight is Suen charging out of range, though it is easily timed.
Lei Shen - Crashing Thunder, tanks spinning him around constantly due to taunt, turning to Decap and getting out of CT.
This is to completely ignore older bosses that mandated you attack from the front the whole time, ala Ragnaros.
The point isn't that you cannot plan around it, but that it is needlessly punishing on our DPS. I would be completely happy with bosses simply not being able to Parry while casting or performing a special ability, which would make complete sense from a "realistic" standpoint anyways.
Edit: Or simply a cooldown reset on parry, ala Templar's Verdict.
It isn't the cleave DAMAGE, but the cleave rotation that I have complaints about. Whereas the CS rotation is fairly fluid, our cleave rotation is very clunky, abilities overlap each other and with most short term add fights, we don't even get a chance to stack Meat Cleaver before adds die. I proposed before that Whirlwind should stack charges of Meat Cleaver based on the number of targets hit by WW, obviously balancing damage around that, since it would greatly speed up our rotation.Originally Posted by Archimtiros
You could even do something tricky, like up the rage cost of Raging Blow based on the Meat Cleaver charges, letting it hit more targets quicker, but still only using one Charge of RB, for higher rage cost. That would still encourage rage pooling, and end the whole "WW better than WS for TG on single target" relationship.
Obviously that is just a random 10 second idea, so please don't blow me up with a hundred comments on how silly/broken/op it is!
The problem with our survivability is two-fold.Originally Posted by Anduryondon
First: Stances. I posted a long while back about using Defensive Stance for Ionization and a half-dozen posters replied about Berserker Stance instead.
When I was working on progression Jin'rokh, not using Def Stance almost guaranteed (my) death, especially if Static Shock hit right after. Now with more gear, the times have changed, but the problem remains. The two stances directly contradict one another. On the one hand, Def Stance helps healers and encourages defensive play; dead DPS of course does none. Then enter Beserker Stance, which rewards risky play, very risky, as only high damage really does any good, the kind you would normally want to use a defensive CD for. I think it is very silly and contradictory design. But then I believe the problem is Berserker Stance, not Def stance.
Second, and what I would really like to see is DbtS work better; instead of Parrying which is largely useless unless you pull aggro on a melee boss. I would like to see it work more like Deterrence or Cloak of Shadows and give us an Immunity ability, like almost every other class in the game.
As for the magic immunity, like I said earlier I don't think more homogenization is good for the game and I don't really think we need it. Again, assuming all melee do equal DPS, why would you bring another melee than a warrior to your raid (well maybe rets for bop cheese).
If you're progressing the Jin'rokh, then you should always swap to def stance (especially when it kills you). Although, I do agree that berserker stance is a bit lame, like its a lack of design or thoughts. They should just had made it like an utility stance (you generate less rage, but you run faster, take more healing, or something like that). The only situation I find Berserker stance really badass is on Ra-den second phase. With that amount of dmg taken, you're literally at rage cap!
But not everyone deals the same dps anyways or produces the same hps at the moment so I am not exactly buying that making dbts a cloakish ability would cause a significant rise in warrior demand and would offer more than some personal convenience at this point.
Mages just got another buff, Blizz never cease to amaze me
This thread has so much bullshit in it I almost TL;DR'd
The only "buff" Warriors could use right now is our old 5% Passive Crit (Raid Buff) back. Often times 10M have to choose between Crit or Spell Haste etc. Give us our old Passive Crit back and this will rarely be a problem.
People that area complaining about our Class being underpowered or too "support>DPS" ... You're bad. Stop creating these stupid threads. Play efficiently and optimally and just be happy that you have the choice to play such a great Class.
Last edited by Windowflip; 2013-07-30 at 06:22 PM.
Easy - US Zul'jin
Warriors are not a "great class" right now. The play style of Fury is quite fun, but the damage is under-tuned, and that's to say nothing about Arms.
So... we are supposed to use the data that says that Frost DKs outperform Arcane Mages? Someone should bring the good news to the DK forum.
10 man heroic and 25 man heroic all parses show warriors being near the bottom. 90th percentile for both shows Fury being near the bottom as well. Just because you don't want to believe the data is accurate doesn't make it any less true.
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LOL at handpicking the parses.
25 man heroic overall.
10 man heroic overall.
25 man heroic 90th percentile
10 man heroic 90th percentile
10 man normal
Who's handpicking parses again?
Awesome! Fury Warriors are middle of the pack with classes of guilds that can't kill Heroic Jinrokh!
I wonder why you ignore top 100 and only take overall parses into account?
Top 100 is a very small sample size. A lot of people think it's too small to glean any valuable information from, outside of which classes are able to pad the best. That is primarily what's happening in top parses this far after progression has finished. Either a fight is done in a way which benefits a player a lot, they have really good RNG, or a combination of the two for the most part.