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  1. #1

    PI or divine insight

    As the title say what is the Best dps increase as shadow?

    Is there any sort of ilvl where you should change or?

  2. #2
    humm good question, i currently have divine insight because mindblast is your nr.1 nuke builder it adds shadow orbs which = more deeps.

    where as power infusion is a flat out cd, it really depends on whether or not you want passive or active. if you think you can keep an eye on PI, it probably won't be much different. but you will have to keep it on cd to get the most out of it, whereas the passive ofc has a chance on every sw-pain tick. and you don't have to worry about another button to press. i think its balanced pretty well.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2013-07-26 at 11:06 AM.

  3. #3
    I think DI can overtake PI at a certain haste point, but I've not seen any serious calculations on it. Twintop to the rescue?

    Another factor to consider is that most ToT fights have some movement to them - this may hinder your PI a bit as you can't always stand and nuke.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    AFAIK PI for pure singletarget patchwerk stuff or periods of burst, like jin'rokh pools.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    [H2P] Quick Links for Tier 15 Encounter Discussions

    Taken directly from howtopriest, discusses talent choices and more for each fight in T15.

  6. #6
    Well im normally playing mage, so its not any problem to have PI on cd all the time. But its like 2 out 5 times the free mind blast is popping when it just get of cooldown.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidsinger View Post
    I think DI can overtake PI at a certain haste point, but I've not seen any serious calculations on it.
    There is a point, but where that point lies depends a lot on other factors (Mastery level, LMG, trinkets with Haste procs, etc.). As has been said by yourself and others already, movement plays a huge role. If you have enough time to spend most of the duration of PI turreting without needing to move more than a stutter-step while casting instants, AND, you can get off the max number of casts of PI during the encounter length such that by waiting for an optimal time to use it you don't lose out on a cast (I.E.: 5 minute fight = 3 casts, as long as the first cast happens between 0:00 - 0:40, the second occurs between 2:00-2:40, and the third is used between before 4:40).

    It really comes down to active v. passive. If you're a troll or an engineer (or both), for example, PI is going to be more powerful for you than DI in a lot of cases because of being able to stack your on-use abilities.

  8. #8
    People need to learn how talents work. You change talents depending on the fight. Just only using PI or only DI for the entire insane is just plain stupid. Learn how your talents work and why you use them.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    People need to learn how talents work. You change talents depending on the fight. Just only using PI or only DI for the entire insane is just plain stupid. Learn how your talents work and why you use them.
    Ye i know now that its mostly fight depending, but maybe PI was useless in all the fights because its simply made to low dps increase. So thats why i asked.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    People need to learn how talents work. You change talents depending on the fight. Just only using PI or only DI for the entire insane is just plain stupid. Learn how your talents work and why you use them.
    Lol, I don't think that was the point at all. I believe changing your talent to suit the fight is a given for any semi-serious (or in my case, hilarious) raider. Nobody's saying to tunnel vision into a single talent for the entire instance - but for those fights that call for PI (let's say, Iron Qon or JinRokh), could you get an uptick in dps by spec'ing DI instead and fishing for more DPs?

  11. #11
    I only use PI on Jin'Rokh. DI, to me at least, works out so much better. I'm getting a ton more procs these days now that my haste is getting up there and I'm over 40% mastery.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    I only use PI on Jin'Rokh. DI, to me at least, works out so much better. I'm getting a ton more procs these days now that my haste is getting up there and I'm over 40% mastery.
    Same, except I also still use it on DA for a quick burn phase since I can line it up with bloodlust and 3 orbs

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    I only use PI on Jin'Rokh. DI, to me at least, works out so much better. I'm getting a ton more procs these days now that my haste is getting up there and I'm over 40% mastery.
    What about Ji Kun? Iron Qon? Twins? Durumu? Dark animus? All of these are single target(well twins ca nbe debated) and you essentially minimizing the proc rate of DI.
    Especially on JiKun PI is awesome.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixers View Post
    Ye i know now that its mostly fight depending, but maybe PI was useless in all the fights because its simply made to low dps increase. So thats why i asked.
    I'm going to try to understand your broken English, but correct me if I'm wrong. Pi was never "useless" this tier. It's actually Ben very useful compare to 5.0. In 5.2 pi was never and will never be a dps loss to use. It competes very well with the rest of that trees talents. With how gear has scaled, fights are very quick now. Most of them are less than 5 minutrwz long making the burst at the start of the fight very impotant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Voidsinger View Post
    Lol, I don't think that was the point at all. I believe changing your talent to suit the fight is a given for any semi-serious (or in my case, hilarious) raider. Nobody's saying to tunnel vision into a single talent for the entire instance - but for those fights that call for PI (let's say, Iron Qon or JinRokh), could you get an uptick in dps by spec'ing DI instead and fishing for more DPs?
    I think you would be very surprised at how dumb people are. And how they don't change them or use them effectively

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  15. #15
    I used PI on some fights the first week of 5.2, always used DI on every fight except for Horridon and Tortos when we were still killing adds after that.

    Unless you can have 3 Orbs on the pull on every fight, DI simply increases your Dps more than PI, especially with good RNG.

    Ji Kun? Iron Qon? Twins? Durumu? Dark animus?
    All of those fights involve movement, which instantly makes DI better. Even on Ji-Kun, with good RNG, you can get another DP/Insanity in with the Nutriment buff, which outweights the extra Haste of PI.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Unless you can have 3 Orbs on the pull on every fight, DI simply increases your Dps more than PI, especially with good RNG.
    That's simply false. There's plenty of top 3 parses using PI.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    What about Ji Kun? Iron Qon? Twins? Durumu? Dark animus? All of these are single target(well twins ca nbe debated) and you essentially minimizing the proc rate of DI.
    Especially on JiKun PI is awesome.
    Ji-Kun isn't bad for PI, I'll give you that.

    Twins isn't a single target fight. You can dot up Suen during the first phase as well as the small adds she reveals, and the whole last phase is two targets.

    Iron Qon isn't a single target fight, you can dot up Qon in between each phase and the last phase there's 4 targets up at once.

    Durumu also isn't a single target fight. My group has ranged kill all red/yellow adds, we dot up ice walls, and there's a lot of movement.

    Dark Animus also isn't anywhere close to a single target fight. If you're not dotting up other targets for DI procs on Animus or helping healers weaken their adds, you're doing it wrong.


    Edit: This is on 25man Heroic btw.

  18. #18
    That's simply false. There's plenty of top 3 parses using PI.
    True, but the value of PI increases the shorter the fights are. Top ranks are usually achieved when the raid Dps is high, so CD uptime will obviously be higher. Either way, if you are ranking with PI on any other fights than Jin'Rokh and Ji-Kun, chances are high that you would have done equally good with DI.

    Anyway, ranking and close-to-BiS farm fights aside, I think this guy is asking about DI vs PI for progress purposes (or even for an alt), in which case DI is superior to PI. The exception being Ji-Kun if you trust your own ability to catch the foodbuffs properly.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2013-07-26 at 09:01 PM.
    By MY hand, your slack shall be extinguished, eternally banished from this realm.

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  19. #19
    I used DI for progression only on I believe HM Animus, Lei Shen and Ra-den this tier. It's a strong talent, but so is PI, and of course ToF has its place in a few fights as well. Overall, I liked this tier of talents because each was used to great effect on several bosses in T15. I feel as though PI's strength when dotting 2 targets has been forgotten. It's quite good to pop when you can dot 2 targets, and if the entire fight isn't like that and doesn't allow for high ToF up time either, it's an overall strong choice for the fight.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I'm going to try to understand your broken English, but correct me if I'm wrong. Pi was never "useless" this tier. It's actually Ben very useful compare to 5.0. In 5.2 pi was never and will never be a dps loss to use. It competes very well with the rest of that trees talents. With how gear has scaled, fights are very quick now. Most of them are less than 5 minutrwz long making the burst at the start of the fight very impotant.




    I think you would be very surprised at how dumb people are. And how they don't change them or use them effectively
    Ye okay i wrote it on my ipad my bad. But i made the thread just to get an understanding about what people pick in which situations. As i said its my alt not my main so i first started to raid as Spries from two weeks ago.

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