Protection warrior: The Top 5 Problems.

[Mouri Kogorou]

- Make self-healing a part of our active mitigation package; this could replace Shield Barrier if Spell Reflect was fixed.

go play a druid.

i only agree to first point, the rest are different play styles that you can get from different classes. overall i am very happy with warrior tanking and i feel that it is the best.

[Zaritte]

i only agree to first point, the rest are different play styles that you can get from different classes. overall i am very happy with warrior tanking and i feel that it is the best.

You clearly dont raid on a warrior or you would never say that warrior tanking is the best. When you get to higher ilevels, we fall short of the other classes in every respect. As of now, I am playing my monk next tier. Monks even have very high mobility with roll/torpedo, ox charge, and teleport. Without riposte scaling with mastery, warriors just cant compete with any other tank class. We can match on DPS or on mitigation... but not both.

[Deleted]

You think that warrior tanking is the best? Have you played this game in the last 6 months, or simply hate the class?

I miss class haters. You know a class is in a bad position if they don't to come to plague the forum, and the warrior forums haven't seen one since 5.1. Hope they come back soon.

[Zaritte]

I miss class haters. You know a class is in a bad position if they don't to come to plague the forum, and the warrior forums haven't seen one since 5.1. Hope they come back soon.

Paladin and Monk forums are loaded with them. I think this is why Blizz made mounts account bound in MoP. They want people who have been playing warriors since Vanilla to switch to monks. XD

[Cyclonus-WOW]

The posts here are pretty much confirming once again that the problem is not necessarily warriors, but the over-powered healing of the paladin, and the damage output discrepancies between the tanks. No one seems to be complaining that we can't survive heroic lei shen or whichever fight. Not even once in this thread, We're all complaining we can't compete with monks/pally's in damage, and druids/pallys in heals.

So, if all tanks did around the same damage, and none of them were able to passively be an extra healer, What would be your top 5 Warrior Problems?

[Deleted]

Well, I'm not complaining about the poor dudus heals, they just fall into the "outdps us" account.

So, if every other tank was culled on their DPS, HPS and scaling, warrior tanks won't have any "top problem" for me. Because I won't know any better, and won't think on actually scaling on our mitigation besides the classical def stats. But honestly, the world has changed and the solution is not wrecking everyone else class. Blizzard had the insight to nail it on theirs, specially on scaling and support. The solution is to bring ours up to par, everyone wins instead of everyone loses, and all that.

[Deleted]

what im sick and tired about is that we get half assed cooldowns while we already had a handfull of them.... fucking demo banner and demo shout needs to be applied thats just sickening more often than not the boss is out of range / cannot be applied to OR THE DAMAGE IT COMES FROM IS EXTERNAL AND CANNOT BE APPLIED TO.. its sickening rocks falling down on tortos..... mageara rampage where you can only apply it to the 2 closest and so on and so on

not to mention that disarm and spell reflect do fuck all in raids... atleast let disarm reduce some % of the damage the boss does if it cant be disarmed or spell reflect actuely reduce some% of the damage you take.... no other class has this... why? monk disarm? dont even fucking begin about that they have it very good .

[Chrispotter]

Okay but you bring Demo Banner and Rallying Cry so NP. Seriously, when we were assigning cooldowns during progression, having a warrior tanking just adds 2 more raid CD's than having another tank.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Okay but you bring Demo Banner and Rallying Cry so NP. Seriously, when we were assigning cooldowns during progression, having a warrior tanking just adds 2 more raid CD's than having another tank.

Paladins - Devotion Aura
Druids - Tranquility
Monks - Zen Meditation
DKs - ???

Man, do I miss easy-mode Dragon Soul 4piece Carry-Cooldowns.

[Dole4011]

Agree.

I was a prot war for 6 years. I switched toons in 4.3 because it was best for our raid, but part of me has wanted to go back to my tank. However, I can't motivate myself to do it given the crappy state of war tanking. It's insulting.

[Deleted]

I think you are blowing it 'slightly' out of proportion, I play both a Prot pally and Monk alt and to more or less the same level that I can play my warrior. They do more DPS yes but Warrior is far from unmanageable and unusable, it has great raid utility with skull / Demo banner and RC and can still deal decent damage if you play it correctly. Yes its in a bad place relative to the other tanks but it isn't as bad as you are making out, it isn't completely unusable

[Gliff]

The posts here are pretty much confirming once again that the problem is not necessarily warriors, but the over-powered healing of the paladin, and the damage output discrepancies between the tanks. No one seems to be complaining that we can't survive heroic lei shen or whichever fight. Not even once in this thread, We're all complaining we can't compete with monks/pally's in damage, and druids/pallys in heals.

So, if all tanks did around the same damage, and none of them were able to passively be an extra healer, What would be your top 5 Warrior Problems?

Realistic changes(no 10,000 CDs and god mode buff).

1. Shield block is limited to blockable damage.

2. Shield barrier should be stackable and cost 30 rage max. This would allow us to do a Shield Barrier when we are at 90 rage and about to cap. Right now using Shield Barrier at that moment is a pain in the ass because it means we probably will not have enough rage for Shield block when we need it like 2 seconds later.

3. Banner needs to be a raid buff rather then a AOE debuff. Banner doesn't work on environmental damage.

4. Fix the cleave range of revenge and buff the cleave. It is broken and needs to be fixed.

5. Make Shattering Throw instant. I know they will never do this for PVP reasons but it is a pain doing it while tanking and just in general.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you are blowing it 'slightly' out of proportion, I play both a Prot pally and Monk alt and to more or less the same level that I can play my warrior. They do more DPS yes but Warrior is far from unmanageable and unusable, it has great raid utility with skull / Demo banner and RC and can still deal decent damage if you play it correctly. Yes its in a bad place relative to the other tanks but it isn't as bad as you are making out, it isn't completely unusable

Ya I would like to add to this. There are plenty of Prot Warriors in top 100 World guilds. Sco is a Prot Warrior FFS. If the #1 guild in the world can use a Prot Warrior then you guilds can.

The only thing I do not accell at is damage that is unblockable and my DPS. BUT, I raid with a Brewmaster so we are smart about who tanks when and put us in the best possible situation to succeed.

On Lei Shen I literally only taunt for debuffs in P1 and P2. I have no problem doing that because his damage is way higher then mine. Thats just being smart. Just because I'm one of 2 tanks doesnt mean I HAVE to tank 50% of the fight.

Yes, those 2 problems need to be fixed but you guys act like Warriors are unplayable. They are not.

[Deleted]

Well, acting like warriors are unplayable would be stopping to play with it. I haven't, nor I have bother to bring my paladin to bosses where I don't need gear on my war because sure as hell I'm not rerolling. That char will stay for alt raids and pugging for the years to come.

It's just being vocal about problems. It's doubtful is going to be solved by post forums (certainly not with less than 10 page posts, 1 page posts on Blizz forums), but it can't hurt. I haven't talked to Sco, but the guy probably loves this class to a point that he won't enjoy raiding with another one, so he just keep going with it. Then again, I wonder how Method would fare if they had a lot of loving Arms and Prot warriors, Frost DKs and MM hunters.

[Gliff]

I'm sure thats exactly why Sco plays his warrior. But the fact that he CAN play his warrior in a guild that is as min/max as possible shows that it is possible to play a Warrior. Some people act like the class is a dying class...

[Ashenia]

When it comes to 10man guilds situation is bit more complicated and I think whole problem is coming from this area as 25man guilds would never whine for Warriors. Although You can do everything another tank can (solo tanking every boss Paladin or Monk can) so we are not broken, we are just doing less damage/are harder to heal as stated above. With 5.4 it will change, not like we would like to but at least it won't be pathetic as it is now..

I would really like to see point 3 done first tho, as current Riposte/Crit change would buff our damage but definitely that has to be reworked for 6.0. I'm not a fan of ANY self heals from tanks either of specs/classes and would love to get it removed (or nerfed highly without having anything to do with vengeance).

Try to get blues attention by any means necessary to this topic as you can see that making our cause via posting on US forums (via Gliff) was spammed by non-warriors as most of us can't even post there.

[Gliff]

Keep tweeting GC. I think that is probably the way we will most likely be heard.

[Ashenia]

Oh I did tweet him quite a bit, never had an answer but some of things we said were changed.. so yea.. maybe that's only way.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

A lot of us agree we're in an OK place, but need to be brought up to other tanks level ( no one wants them brought down ), with the exception of Pally Raid healing of course.

I think we should help with suggestions on who to fix the class, rather than complain about how it fails to compare.

Some of the suggestions I thought were good from Gliff's post:

1. Demoralizing Banner becoming a Buff, rather than Debuff.
In essence this is similar to dropping a totem, now that I think about it. If it had it's range extended, it could be a fair counterpart to pally's Devotion Aura.

2. Cleave/Revenge AOE fixes?

Do you think they need to do more damage? Or More Threat? ( this is fixed with the new taunt/threat mechanic ).

For Me, the bigger problem is simply snap aoe-aggro.

Example: Bats on Tortos. When i've got to collect the 10 or so bats, if I miss at all with either my leap, or dragon roar/shockwave/tclap, I'm completely boned. I have to rely on a misdirect from my hunters or someone dies.

Taunting Banner is amazing. Hands down. But that helps for 1 pack of Bats.

ThunderClap is really where we're limited I think. Compared to a Monks Spinning Crane Kick/Statue, or DK/Pally Persistent AOE effects, I think we're behind on snap aggro.

I would like to see them improve thunderclap so its something we can use to get snap-aggro in these kinds of situations. Since I can't HAVE spinning crane kick, why not make Thunderclap equally cheap resource wise, I wouldn't mind if they nerfed it to 0 damage if I could cast it 2-3 globals in a row ).

Maybe it could start out doing 100% damage for 20 rage, 75% damage for 15 rage, 50% damage for 10 rage. 55 Rage pooled to get snap aggro would still require a bit of planning, but this would be WAY easier to get snap aggro without incurring the TC ( 6s ), HL ( 30-45s ) or at best Shockwave ( 40s ) cooldown.

Blizzards argument to this might just be : "if you miss with leap/roar/Tclap you deserve to wipe"

[idefiler6]

I think he means fix Revenge damage, they stealth-nerfed the 2nd and 3rd hit to be something like cumulatively half damage each target. So main target gets hit with 10k, next one gets 5k, 3rd target gets 2.5k, or something like that.

For Thunderclap, it would be nice if another debuff was added, to tick the same damage 3-4 more times per second in addition to adding deep wounds. Or just buff deep wounds?

Man, I'm really feeling like we're in just a weird spot and need a serious overhaul. It's kind of like they took all of our spells and shit from Cata and mashed it into the square peg hole for Mists and left it there.

[Ashenia]

What if our spell reflect would work bit differently and on another hand exactly the same. Before you ask, what? Here is what I got in my mind:

- Spell reflection
Raise your shield reflecting next spell cast on you, if spell is too powerful damage taken from it is reduced by 10-15-20%

It still stays cool 5man ability and strong raid cooldown, you can definitely do similar thing with Disarm (but if SR, Demo Banner, Demo Shout would be changed there is no need for Disarm).