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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Tier 11 (Blackwing Decent, Bastion of Twilight & Throne of the Four Winds) was actually the best raiding Tier I've ever experienced, and in my view makes Ulduar look like shit. Sure, killing Onixya for the 76th time was annoying, but it was an epic expansion at the start!

    It went down hill during late Firelands, but it certainly wasn't the worst until we hit Dragon Soul.
    While I don't agree with them making Ulduar look like shit, I agree that T11 was perhaps the best tier I've ever played. Fascinating bosses, not the same monotonous environments, decent amount of lore to back up the raiding, plenty of hard encounters. I liked it. I might add Firelands to those to cap it off, and while I didn't particularly enjoy Dragon Soul, it still made for the best PvE/Raiding expansion to date.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-07-26 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #22
    Pandaria could have been great, but this

    Xzibit meme - Yo Dawg, I herd you like to wait on new wow content - so we put a gate on your gate, so you can wait while you wait.

    Homogenization of everything, 25 man raids made pointless.

    TBC still the number one xpac so far imo. Thanks to MoP's shit 5 mans, 25man raids pointless, stupid gear/rep/valor gating. Still MoP isn't over yet so maybe something will come out that will be the outstanding feature of WoW like GC said... o wait that's right, he was full of shit.
    --Aszune/Silvermoon---- Draenor/Kazzak--

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goit View Post
    Pandaria could have been great, but this

    Xzibit meme - Yo Dawg, I herd you like to wait on new wow content - so we put a gate on your gate, so you can wait while you wait.

    Homogenization of everything, 25 man raids made pointless.

    TBC still the number one xpac so far imo. Thanks to MoP's shit 5 mans, 25man raids pointless, stupid gear/rep/valor gating. Still MoP isn't over yet so maybe something will come out that will be the outstanding feature of WoW like GC said... o wait that's right, he was full of shit.
    How did they make 25m raiding pointless, and what point did it have in Cataclysm that it doesn't have now?

    I've been raiding 25 and I don't agree with your assessment. Still eager to hear your reasoning.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterAU View Post
    Yeah, that's shit, but i'm talking about the content not the trinkets
    These trinkets are part of the content. Every pull. Or well, sometimes they're just not part of the content for specific people, since they just don't wanna proc...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goit View Post
    [...]
    Thanks to MoP's shit 5 mans
    Challenge Modes are pretty solid. Heroic Dungeons shouldn't be harder than Normal Raid. There's a bit of a wording problem there.

    25man raids pointless
    Well, it isn't. There are 2 leagues: 10m and 25m. And 25m drops not only 1 piece of loot more, it also has a higher chance of TF.

    stupid gear/rep/valor gating.
    You oppose gating, but claim TBC was best. Yawn. The catch up mechanism is pretty solid this expansion. In Cata and WotLK, it was too forgiving. MoP is a nice step between Cata/WotLK and TBC.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  5. #25
    First tier of MoP was probably the worst tier of raiding imo only behind DS. ToT has been okay, but if you are talking about PvE as a whole and not just raiding then MoP has been awful. SoO looks like it has some potential so we'll see but as of now my rankings are BC, Wrath, Mop, Cata. Didn't play in vanilla.

  6. #26
    no, in my opinion it is not the best expac though we still have a new tier to chow down on.

    It terms of the best expec for raiding for ME!

    1. Cata
    2. mists
    3. Wrath
    4. BC
    5. Vanilla

    I don't think mists is going to come out as top.



    (( also I hope RPPM trinkets all burn in the deepest parts of hell. so many classes stack haste once they get the trinkets and just.. ughh hate them))
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire jd812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Tier 11 (Blackwing Decent, Bastion of Twilight & Throne of the Four Winds) was actually the best raiding Tier I've ever experienced, and in my view makes Ulduar look like shit. Sure, killing Onixya for the 76th time was annoying, but it was an epic expansion at the start!

    It went down hill during late Firelands, but it certainly wasn't the worst until we hit Dragon Soul.
    i guess you did not read my post

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    No. MSV/HoF/ToES count among the most boring, unimaginative raids I've seen in a long time. They are utterly bland and uninteresting.
    ToT is better, a lot better, but still suffers from a 1-dimensional color palette. Everything in ToT is blue, blue-ish and blue-zy. The fights are a lot better though
    Simply what this guy said + I didn't raid while BC was still the current expac so I won't know how they felt however I do prefer some over MoP in theme and style well since MoP raids I just hate mogu stuff (MSV) and those klaxxi (HoF I believe) so I haven't felt that epic feel like entering ulduar or ICC which I liked the story off thus making me prefer Wrath over MoP in theme and story etc... Mechanic wise well I don't rlly know they do seem nice but not so interesting. I've quit right after 5.1 so I can't really say about t15 but the size of ToT seems nice for a change even though it involves mogu but it just seems like ulduar 2.0 to me however, my whole idea in raiding and PvE might change with 5.4 as SoO seems interesting.

    Overall also the dailies if you include them as PvE at the start just sucked and the raids however isn't too alt friendly to gear up to enter and scenarios well... Some are awesome while some are not and heroics well they don't feel that much part of the game anymore once you gear up to enter LFR you just farm it and challenge modes well I haven't tried them but they do seem nice for people who want a challenge but not too long until people have HC SoO gear I believe they will just zerg through them and get gold.

  9. #29
    As far as accessibility, it probably is the greatest, since you can do so many LFG options that weren't available in the BC days. But, I love/miss the raids in BC. I enjoyed most of the fights in Hyjal/BT/SW and they felt like real accomplishments. Ulduar was good in Wrath, but I hated TOGC which lead me to quit lol.

  10. #30
    MoP might be the worst raiding expansion at least in my opinion.

    1. Wrath (ulduar and ICC - amazing raids)
    2. BC (karazhan, BT - amazing)
    3. Cata (BWD, BoT, FL and even some DS all good or great raids)
    4. Vanilla (I actually enjoyed the simplicity of the boss mechanics. Baron geddon still one of my all-time favorite fights. YOU ARE THE BOMB!)
    5. MoP (MSV, HoF and ToES were all garbage in my opinion. I did like ToT though. If SoO turns out good, I might bump this above vanilla.)

    yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I always wonder if the people who say BC was the best raiding expansion actually played it.

    Hyjal was godawful.
    Magtheridon was terrible, had to mega-stack classes for that bitch.
    SSC was very average
    TK was pretty cool
    Black Temple was decent
    Sunwell was just hard, not really good. Just hard.

    Karazhan is the only stand out, and even that had its issues.
    This. Karazhan bored me to tears despite Chess (raids need more of those gimmicks). Magtheridon sucked, but Gruul was fun.

    I'm 50/50 with MoP. I love Pet Battles, but I couldn't enjoy them until now because I spent more god damn time trying to get LFR loot and grinding dailies than try other things. By the time I was done with the god awful Klaxxi* and Horde Dominance dailies, I didn't want to bother (yes, I know Shado-Pan dailies are much worse). Call me a weirdo, but I hate ToT and Isle of Thunder (Durumu would be a great fight if the RNG from mechanics and maze weren't bullshit.). Oh yea, I really hate the loot RNG (It shouldn't take somebody 3 patches to get to the next portion of a legendary let alone loot upgrades if I already bought my BiS with valor. That's not a challenge like Throne of Thunder; that's bullshit.).

    5.0 - Really great until you hit 90. Heart of Fear can rot in Hell. Vault of Mysteries is pretty boring despite it's short (I like Elegon). Terrace is ok, but I love the Tsu Long healing gimmick (I like Lei Shi, but I hate her as a boss).

    5.1 - Still more daily grinding, but items made it faster. I wish there more plot quests than dailies. I hope they fire the guy behind Change of Command because you can't do that without Open Raid these days (unless they nerfed it).

    5.2 - My most hated patch. Thunder Island sucks, and I hate ToT. Dailies over there there sucked.

    5.3 - Needs more content besides 2 scenarios and a weekly. I don't even waste time on weeklies after I got Ga'zrooki.

    *I'm stoked to kill the Klaxxi. I hated their dailies more than I hated Shado-Pan.
    Last edited by Orkwuzhere; 2013-07-26 at 11:06 PM.

  12. #32
    It's definitely the best raiding expansion since BC, but everything else has really taken a few steps back in quality, particularly alt content, catch-up mechanisms, and small group content.

    - Scenarios are trash, will always be trash, and should be scrapped. Only reason people do them is for the fast valor and chance at good alt gear.
    - Heroic Dungeons are completely faceroll, and no longer have a purpose. You can go directly from leveling greens to LFR/H Scens. No longer a source of pre-raid gear, no longer an efficient source of Valor, takes longer than a H Scenario and rewards are MUCH lower.
    - Justice Points have been 100% useless for the entire expansion.
    - Alt catch-up mechanism is essentially "grind LFR and hope you get lucky". It's frustrating and way too RNG-dependent, even with the huge drop rates in 5.0 LFRs.
    - The daily quest debacle on launch. No explanation necessary.

    Personally I think BC and probably Wrath as well were both better PvE expansions. BC because the raiding was the best, Wrath because the catch-up mechanisms and alt content were the best and the raiding was pretty good as well (Ulduar and ICC were both very good. Let's ignore ToC and Malygos.).

  13. #33
    Vanilla/MoP >>> TBC > Cata >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrath.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    PVE also includes terrible heroics, broken challenge modes, boring scenarios and the horde of garbage dailies that were introduced. So no, it isn't the best PVE expansion.

    BC is still the best PVE expansion.
    This many times over.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  15. #35
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Personally no, MSV and HoF are so damn boring.

  16. #36
    IMO the first tier of Cata was great, firelands was eh.... and Dragon Soul was doo doo. I think this expansion raiding is at a very good spot, tightly tuned, but still gives new guys access to it. Not sure how people think MSV is boring, Elegon and Will of Emperor are fun fights for me at least.

    Beyond that though PvE has been treated harshly, questing in MoP is hellacious, they took the same thing Cata had where you go from quest hub to quest hub and do the exact same thing, kill 9 guys, loot 5 of a certain item, and free 3 people. And the XP bar goes up too slow lol. Considering how easy content is after you hit 90, they should've at least made leveling better. And you can't grind out dungeons either, most will give like 1 block of xp after you did them the first time.

    5 man's are a joke, heroics are an even worse joke, and challenge modes are worse than that since they offered no gear progression. Scenarios were doo doo, heroic scenarios are alright, but again, gear progression here is entirely too random. Sucks that you may have to do 10 of them just to get a piece of 516 gear. I think the fact that 90% of the progression was tied to doing LFR was a massive mistake, and made LFR look "successful" when most people were bored with it after the first run.

    Between LFR and 5 man bosses, they made them incredibly easy but just gave them way too much HP I think. I remember the last boss in the brewery took forever because it healed... lol, was like a 5 minute fight, and nobody was ever even close to dying for a single second. Ditto with LFR, and for the first time ever, we see people afk'ing in raids and actually getting gear for it.
    Last edited by RickJamesLich; 2013-07-26 at 11:25 PM.

  17. #37
    Raiding Wise I've Liked MoP The Most but Sunwell is still my Fav Raid.

  18. #38
    Ha, no far from it. I think this is the worst xpac in every aspect. If not the worst xpac for a game i've ever played.

    I think the amount of subs they've lost this xpac alone proves that. They're back down to Vanilla sub numbers for the first time. Vanilla > BC > LK was peak. It's funny how once Cata and MoP roll out which is when blizzard added all the LFR and LFG and pointless shit to the game they lost all the players cuz casuals.

    BC had the biggest impact on subs. Vanilla had 8 mil BC added another 3.5 mil. It went up another 500k in LK, after that its been all down hill. MoP has had the biggest decline in WoW subs for a reason.

    BC > LK > Vanilla > Cata >MoP.

    MoP is bland. The story sucks, the Chinese theme was terrible and the colors my god, I've never seen entire zones be one color. Half the zones are either all green or all black. Even the raids are that way, ToT is freaking all blue/dark blue.

    Just Holy crap the worst xpac i've ever seen.

  19. #39
    Overall? Definately.

    The dailies aren't anywhere near as bad as people claim. Personally I found the Cataclysm and Wrath ones to be more grindy and boring, and the Burning Crusade ones were torture.

    The 5 man dungeons aren't as good, but ceased being especially relivent the moment people stepped into LFR. I would of course like them not to be irrelivent, and to give decent rewards at higher levels, and for Challenge Modes to give better rewards then extra Valor and eventually some transmog gear. But hey, we can't win them all.

    Raids are by far the best they've ever been. Wrath was very hit or miss, Burning Crusade was mostly miss, Cataclysm had a lot of really boring encounters mixed with a small number of amazing ones. Mists of Pandaria has been very consistant.

    Leveling itself is the best its ever been, the first time through. The second and third times become a drag very quickly. The sheer amount of quests required, combined with a lack of variety of dungeon to break it up, makes it rather alt unfriendly. But the first time was great!

    LFR is better then it was in Cataclysm. Still needs improving, but its tolerable right now. Currently there's only a single item I need from there now (an offhand off Megaera or Lei Shen) and I'm choosing not to bother with it since I'm raiding normal modes of those fights at the moment. So it doesn't bother me, though it is rather alt unfriendly again.

    Really the only criticism of Mists of Pandaria I can relate to is that its a very alt-unfriendly expansion, directly after Cataclysm and Wrath which loved alts.

  20. #40
    Depends what you consider "PvE content."

    I'd argue that while the raid fights are ok, the lore is crap behind them and they don't have the same epic feeling as they once did.

    Not to mention lack of 5 mans, and raids being the only real catch up mechanic (something I can run once a week sucks).

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