Page 4 of 15 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
14
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    No, it certainly isn't.
    1. Boss mechanics (in heroic raids ofc) is way too much unforgiving. Random oneshots (farming 13/13, yet still sometimes we wipe at Jin'rokh for hour because RNG spawned crap sucks).
    2. Linear raid progression with awful balanced bosses difficulties.
    3. Thrash packs are too big and dull.
    4. Itemisation is freaking HORRIBLE BEYOND ALL LIMITS. Yes, yes, even in comparison with BC itemisation it is horrible indeed.
    5. Absurd unneeded timesinks everywhere. You wanna get to raid's summoning stone - please, waste 10 minutes for travel. You want to redeem tier token? Waste 10 minutes for flying to vendor. You want to buy valor item? Waste 10 minutes. You wanna buy pvp item? Waste 5 minutes.
    6. Complete lack of group content outside of raids. Heroic scenarios? Meh. Challenge "zerg" modes? Even more meh.
    7. +500 legendary gemstones that go up into player's asshole, since Blizzard can't fit them into actual weapons.
    8. Awful, horrible beyond all limits legendary questline, based over pure RNG.
    9. Awful healer balance (absorb-based prevalation). Awful tank balance (prot pala prevalation). Awful dps balance (rdd over mdd prevalation, warlock/rogue/mage prevalation).
    10. Awful RPPM mechanics. Again playing stupid las vegas casino instead of mmo game - and, as we all know, casino always win, lol.
    11. Awful tier sets design.
    12. Awful alliance lore (as always).
    So, no. PvE-wise MoP sucks. BC/Wrath for the win, as always.
    This is actually all pretty true, sadly.

  2. #62
    I think we can all agree that Wrath was the king of 5 man content, yeah?

    That said, I have enjoyed WoW more in MoP than I have in three years. I think its more of how I can shift in and out of whatever content I want without any fuss.
    Last edited by Futhark; 2013-07-27 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #63
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    626
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Lol no, you just seem to not read other people's arguments, shifting everything towards nostalgia. Lookie-lookie:
    In BC we had strong lore tied to raids. In MoP we have none.
    In BC we had half specs unplayable. But in exchange every spec was unique in terms of abilities, and we had four roles. If we start bringing parallels to MoP, FOTMs which are now equal to specs that rocked in BC, are even less in numbers then there were in BC. Oh, sweet irony.
    In BC we could lose 2/3 of raid and still kill boss. In MoP death of one person equals to unescapable wipe.
    In BC raids were easy, yes. That is exactly a situation when hard =/= enjoyable. I hate unforgiving random based on agility oneshotting boss crap. If I wanted a slasher dynamics to play, I'd go and play Darksiders2. Or GW2. Or whatever.
    In BC we had hard 5-man dungeons, do I really need to explain difference here?
    In BC a person in t4 was still good in t6 raids. Even more. A person in crafted prof set still was good. Even more. A person could farm pvp items, then come in raid and still be good.
    In BC there was a constant competition between guilds. In MoP I don't even know 99% of the server.
    Of course, it is all a rose-tinted glasses. Cool story.
    1) I'll agree, we don't have strong lore tied to raids, but Blizzard have done a good job as a whole on their storytelling of Pandaria, even if the raids are lacking. (Something which they'll hopefully learn from next expansion).

    2) You can't justify that one at all. If it's broken it doesn't matter how unique it is, it's broken. And please, the degree of differentiation between specs your implying is false. Take Warriors for example, the only difference between Fury and Arms for BC was like BT and MS.

    3/4) It's great you feel that you can achieve adequate progression with nearly all of your raid dead at the hands of mechanically lacking bosses. Bravo.

    5) This is another rose-tinted glasses thing. Yeah hard 5-mans were great, but it was such a tedious design, and what made it worse was that it was compulsory, there was no other form of progression. You HAD to do those heroics, no matter what your raid progress was.

    6) Another bad design. PvP was horrifically unbalanced in BC because a top-tiered player could come in and decimate the entire battleground of players who had spent time farming BG's to earn gear to play better in BG's. When a PvE hero popped in and started raping everyone it wasn't fun for anybody except for the team he was on.

    7) There is only a sense of lacklustre competition between guilds is because you don't know anyone on the server (so you've claimed). That competition is definitely still there and there are still guilds actively stealing players from others. It's not to the degree of during BC, but it is still there.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  4. #64
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    599
    For me the game just keeps getting better. So yes, I'd say MoP is the best expansion PvE wise. (Best expansion overall even.)
    Shaman Warrior Monk Rogue

    Stream
    When I feel earthquake, my hand automatically go to the dick. I stroke the dick and feel I have sex with the earth. All becoming calm.

  5. #65
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    626
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    For me the game just keeps getting better. So yes, I'd say MoP is the best expansion PvE wise. (Best expansion overall even.)
    This is exactly how I feel tbh. There hasn't at any point in 8 years where I've though "well this is fucking shit". I've taken the game Blizzard has thrown at me and have just enjoyed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  6. #66
    I'd say everything is really good in MoP, but there are two things that are totally crap and is really ruining the expansion for me since they are my major playing reasons: raids and 5-mans. No new 5-mans over the entire expansion is just terrible at this point, and the raids are GOD AWEFUL! 4 totally linear raids in a row with bosses that are almost all clusterfucks is not good enough for me.

  7. #67
    Old God apepi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mostly harmless
    Posts
    10,276
    Wotlk has been all round the best for raiding, good for the hardcore and good for casuals.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #68
    Survey says: no.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  9. #69
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    The raids are pretty terrible and what's worse is that since your constantly being shoved into raiding at every opportunity their flaws become more and more obvious. ToT is the worst piece of trash I've seen and THIS was what what they claimed would rival Ulduar. The rest of the PVE content in this game isn't that far behind it unfortunately.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #70
    The Patient vickvinegar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    anaheim honda center
    Posts
    284
    Not. Even. Close.

  11. #71
    So much hyperbolic hypocriticism in this thread. Lets go through them shall we..

    Alt Catch up mechanic - Let's try the backwards proof approach; TBC -> complete and utter shit in terms of alt progression, you you wanna do hyjal? lemme ask my guild if they can boost me through TK and SSC to get me attuned. Wrath -> Best alt CATCHUP because it was so easy, as for alt progression, guess no one cares since you were fed gear. Cata -> Same deal as Wrath, you were fed gear to the point of making EVERYTHING else besides DS relevant. MoP -> O look you actually have to play your alt char to progress it. Is it even that much playing? Nope, just do LFR's and daily scenario and within a month youre caught up, thats PROGRESSION, not being spoon fed gear (too much).

    --- You have Wrath and Cata feeding gear to people to the extent of making everything else in the expansion pointless, how is that good *PvE* design. It doesn't even tie into lore. You have TBC, which holds firmly to lore progression, but the gating system is so tightly knit, that getting a proper geared alt required you to play your alt almost as much as your main from the beginning of the expansion. Now MoP, it found a leeway between the two, people complain, because in Wrath and Cata, they complaiend it was too easy, and in TBC it was too hard. Now when they go towards something thats a compromise between both extremes, they suddenly prefer the extremes again. Seriously, some of these forum posters mustve been hammered on their head with shovels as babies

    Next, we have this genius trying to say being able to kill a boss after 60% of the raid wipes is good raid design.. i mean seriously, how dumb can one person get?

    Next, we have 5 mans. This is an issue that has been dealt with OVER AND OVER AND OVER. TBC hcs were too hard at the time, wrath were too easy (from posts back then). So what did blizz do, they created Cata heroics, which were TBC difficulty IF you had levelling/ heroic gear. What happened? People cried oceans, so about a flat out 30% nerf went out to all of them, cuz for the life of god, they didn;t know how to CC or dps. So what happened when DS or Firelands hit, people overgeared nerfed instances, and based on that hyperbole, started qqing they were too easy. Blizz not giving a shit, made MoP Heroics, quite intense if in beginning levelling gear, but got progressively insanely easier. But then what, for the collect few people who wanted a challenge, there were Challenge Modes. Everyone seems to think challenge modes are supposed to be Alone in the Darkness difficulty. Their difficulty at the beginning of the expansion is supposed to rival that of TBC heroics. And you know what.. they probably did. Nowadays, with gear with so many sockets, its sort of futile, but let's see you go into The Mechanar Heroic in sunwell gear and say you cant zerg it down. Yea exactly, stop bitching CM's provided their purpose, if you want its actual difficulty, stop buying it for gold from people who have gear, or just do it in full 463 dungeon blues, you know.. if you want a genuine experience.

    Okay next, someone said that they could go into t6 raids with t4 gear and still be useful. That is quite some heavy bullshit they spout. A lot of guilds in BT and Sunwell required you to pump out 1.5k dps, t4 people didnt pump that. tanks needed huge hp pools to be able to survive crushing blows, healers needed a lot of int on their gear so it'd actually heal for something (mana chuggers). You may think that going into a t6 raid with t4 gear made you useful, but you were dead weight, heavily being boosted dead weight. Now lets see, could you do ICC in Naxx gear? nope, could you do DS in t11 gear? yea prolly, but thats cuz the instance was a failure after so many nerfs. Now MoP, can you do higher tiers with lower tier gear? No, is that bad? No, its the norm, its called gear progression. Why would blizz give you content if they dont want you to experience it. If you're an alt of a new guy nowadays, you dont even have to experience it for long, since you can jump from t14 LFR -> t15 LFR -> t16 lfr -> t16 flex....

    Also, sorry to keep saying this, the same guy also mentioned that heroic mechanics are too forgiving. What? Im sorry did you not notice the heroic tag next to the difficulty marker. Am i supposed to hold your hand and tell how to not get your face blasted by a lightning orb? If you cant do it, dont bother heroic raiding, normal raiding might be better for you. MoP has accomodated for MANY MANY variations of skill levels this tier (ever more with flex raid). their new policy of gear progression is also excellent, they dont have to nerf the raids, however your valor lets you keep upgrading your gear so you keep making bosses easier by outgearing them.

    Next, dailies -> Back in t14 dailies had a big impact since the reputation upgrades actually gave you something, was it mandatory? No. Was it helpful? Yes. If you wanted loot of raid quality, you could either raid for it (which some people found hard due to their guild's ineptitude, or you could take it into your own hands and grind it). Im sorry was i supposed to hold your hand and GIVE you raid ready gear at the start of an expansion? Dailies were ALL tied to raiding loot, which meant they were part of progression. It rewarded people who could be arsed to do them, even if they despised it. Let's look at ToT and dailies, whats the point now? Mogu coins? and lesser charms? No one needs to do dailies anymore, there are MANY MANY other ways to get lesser charms now, you can grind mobs, you can do pet battles. Either way you look at it, its a grind, one that you dont need to do, but that will definitely help you. Same happened in TBC, almost some item from some 5mans was an upgrade so you had to keep running it, the time to find a group everyday is roughly equal to getting 50 charms a week. Wrath and Cata, didn't have this, since the catchup mechanic was so fast, take that for what you will.

    Next, theres the fact that people said MoP has had the largest fall in subscribers compared to any expac, and apparently that makes it the worst. Think objectively, not through prejudicial glasses. When TBC came out, the MMO market was EMPTY, WoW was basically the hottest and most likely only name of it calibur in town. Vanilla, created the core base, TBC inflated it as word got out more and more. Then wrath came, the subscriber dwindled in numbers a bit,and then jumped and then dwindled and then jumped (i.e. naxx-> uld -> toc -> icc -> rs). Overall it still lost a net subscriber base, was that the expansion? Maybe. Was that the fact that OTHER mmos like Rift and Aion were going out as well? Possibly. Cata came, and the net loss was even higher, same issue, it may have had to do with the expansion or it may have had to do with the plethora of ALERNATIVES to WoW, WoW was not the only name in town anymore. Next, MoP.. people are reading the latest quarter. This quarter's reading was taken 3 months after the latest raid patch and at the beginning of summer? Wtf did you expect? Not to mention, there are now a HUGE HUGE amount of other games now then compared to when TBC was out, and the expansion isn't even over..

    Okay finally people mentioned color paletes. Im sorry, i thought thunder was blue (lightning as yellow) did i read my bed time stories incorrectly? All of BWS was red/orange, all of TotFW was white, all of BoT was purple. All of ICC, was basically blue as well. (OMG putricide was green, fester and rotface were yellow/orange.. yea.. consorts were green and yellow..) The point is, seldom FEW instances have a change in their basic color palletes because it is SUPPOSED to be the feel of the instance. Ulduar was a cool exception because of its design. To combat it, SoO is very similar, you fight in 2 different continents with 2 completely different color palettes. The visuals this expansion have been stunning, and to argue against it is just trying to be a devils advocate for something not even well thought out.

    Anyway, thats bout it, lots of BS in this thread.
    Last edited by Zonex; 2013-07-27 at 03:12 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    No it's not, doesn't hold a candle to B.C or Wrath unless something unexpectedly spectacular happens in the seige of org.
    Wrath that had recycled Naxx (and even if it was new to many players it was far too easy to be enjoyable) and TOC? I also don't think ICC was a good raid... Lich king and Putricide were fun fights but the others were nothing special and the actual raid instance itself felt somehow empty... Like the bosses had just been randomly dropped into some generic fortress.

    Wotlk could have been my favourite expansion if TOC and Naxx were replaced with raids as good as throne of thunder.

  13. #73
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post

    Wotlk could have been my favourite expansion if TOC and Naxx were replaced with raids as good as throne of thunder.
    Throne is a terrible raid. It's certainly not the Ulduar they proclaimed it to be and to be perfectly honest I'd rather be in Naxxx or TOGC. At least I gave a shit about those places. Throne is uninspired, bland, and exhausting. It only gets worse when the developers also shove it down your throat at every opportunity.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #74
    BC
    Great raid content (except Hyjal which was as bad as TOC imo) but other than the raids I don't think the xpac provided much. Heroic dungeons were interesting because they were challenging but many classes were semi excluded from PUG heroics simply because they didn't have reliable CC... Everyone wanted a mage for polymorph and nobody wanted a warrior dps for example. I think a lot of people enjoyed the theme of BC too.

    WOTLK
    Loved the levelling zones. Probably my favourite looking zones in all of WOW.. Lots of cool dungeons. Lack of quality raid content other than Ulduar (I didn't like ICC, naxx or TOC).

    Cata
    I didn't really like anything about Cata other than a few of the redone vanilla zones but once i'd played through them once there wasn't really any replayability. I did enjoy playing through Vashjir and Uldum the 1st time. Didn't especially enjoy any of the raid instances or bosses other than heroic Ragnaros.

    MOP
    Lots of "mini games" such as brawlers, pet battles, rares, world bosses to keep people busy in none raid hours. I've enjoyed the quality of the raids but there is a lack of 5 man content and what there is seems far too easy. I find scenarios boring (heroic scenarios are slightly more interesting). There aren't enough 5 man dungeons and they are too easy.. I'm not saying they need to be as hard as Shadow labyrinth heroic etc were but you don't even need to try to get through MOP heroics without risks. You just aren't ever in any danger and that makes them dull.
    Dailies were an issue in MOP at the start of the expansion when there were multiple factions that you felt obligated to grind but that was a short term problem that lasted maybe 2-3 months. Grinding the daily reps on alts is very fast these days and now there really is no need to do the dailies anyway... You can easily get to throne of thunder LFR within a couple of weeks without daily faction gear.


    I can make a case for any of the xpacs being best (other than Cata) but I still put BC slightly above all others just because of the raid content. Kara, SSC, TK, BT and Sunwell were all great raids and raiding is the main part of the game for me.

    1.BC
    2.MOP
    3.WOTLK
    4.Cata
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2013-07-27 at 03:36 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    No it's not, doesn't hold a candle to B.C or Wrath unless something unexpectedly spectacular happens in the seige of org.
    I will happily agree with you that nothing will ever hold a candle to B.C when it comes to raiding for me. Karazhan, TK, SSC, B.T, Sunwell, everything with the exception of Gruul's lair were AMAZING raids and content, and same goes for the raids and heroics. But why? Because honestly it was new, It was PvE taken to a whole new level.

    But to say wrath was the one of the best? Theres something seriously wrong with you, or you didn't legit play since B.C. You had rehashed Naxx which was a horrible idea, to take a great raid and dumb it down to the point 5 year olds could finish it... sad. TOGC, A raid in which I've never met anyone who actually liked it. Rehashed onyxia... Not even going there, And then ICC a completely, in my opinion one of the most boring raids I've ever done aside from the plague wing and lich king himself.
    And then you had dungeons and both heroics, and as a tank I can say I'd happly jump into LFD heroics pull the whoooole dungeon, aoe it down and leave, You call that great content? I call that extremely boring.

    Wrath is the reason WoW started its major decline to the massive loss in difficulty when it came to raiding, dungeons, quest ect, at the same time MANY people joined wow meaning that when cata tried to bring WoW back up to what it once was, large amounts of people cried, forming the term wrath baby. Now MoP has found a way to not follow the path of both cata and wrath, and instead well retaining a decently difficult level of raiding ( Especially some of the heroic fights ) some new interesting mechanics to fights that I really enjoy, and then top it off with actually having stuff to do other then sit around in org or stormwind all day, something EVERYONE has been asking for along time, god forbid they actually listen to us.

    When it comes down to what expansion has been the best for raiding this is my last

    1) MoP (Only ranking it #1 because I've had almost all of my best times raiding and doing dungeons, dailies, ect in MoP because of friends ect)
    2) B.C (Would be my #1 if it was for that ^)
    3) Vanillia
    4) Cata
    5) Wotlk

    In that exact order. I've never had so much fun raiding like I have in MoP. And yes, i really would put Cata a head of WoTLK because wotlk had only one great raid and that was Ulduar, but not enough to cover for the rest of the faults the expansion brought about. Cata had BWD BOT and Throne, and firelands, firelands being one of my most favorite raids ever along side Ulduar, well I quit because of dragonsoul and there was alot of bad behind cata I would rather go back to cata the WOTLK.
    Only true great thing behind wrath was the lore, and the leveling zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    MOP
    Lots of "mini games" such as brawlers, pet battles, rares, world bosses to keep people busy in none raid hours. I've enjoyed the quality of the raids but there is a lack of 5 man content and what there is seems far too easy. I find scenarios boring (heroic scenarios are slightly more interesting). There aren't enough 5 man dungeons and they are too easy.. I'm not saying they need to be as hard as Shadow labyrinth heroic etc were but you don't even need to try to get through MOP heroics without risks. You just aren't ever in any danger and that makes them dull.
    Dailies were an issue in MOP at the start of the expansion when there were multiple factions that you felt obligated to grind but that was a short term problem that lasted maybe 2-3 months. Grinding the daily reps on alts is very fast these days and now there really is no need to do the dailies anyway... You can easily get to throne of thunder LFR within a couple of weeks without daily faction gear.
    I agree with this completely
    Last edited by Mayati; 2013-07-27 at 03:46 AM.

  16. #76
    I am getting so tired of people saying TBC was the best, when you ask them why, they come up with silly answers. I think most of them haven't even played it either, they just want to look "oldskool" or whatever. I think Blizzard did great with the PvE content in MoP, but I can't really say which one is the best since I started in Wotlk.

  17. #77
    Ima say this. I'm only a casual player now only doing LFRS and stuff but i'm still enjoying wow but tbh I don't know why but i enjoyed cata and wrath for the most part of wow but mops still great

  18. #78
    In my opinion, Mists is tied to Wrath as the best expansion. It could be number one, since the raids and the content are very very nice, but Wrath had more... flavor... than Mists has.

    Also, the raiding design in Wrath was perhaps the sweet spot. I hated doing the same raid twice a week, in 10 and 25 sizes, but I realize now this was probably the best design. 10 man was more suited to people with less time avialable and for the casual, 25 was for the dedicated and the cutting edge... 10 man guilds proved recruits for the 25 man guilds, so they never needed to stop because of lack of players, and 25 man guilds would do the more relaxed 10 man raids in their free time, effectively helping 10 man guilds clear their content.

    After they joined both sizes in Cataclym a gap began to appear in raiding guilds... Some guilds simply couldn't do the raids anymore, because the skill cap was unreachable for them. The top guilds didn't have that place where they could recruit, so a draught of recruitament began. And the raiding scene began to suffer, and didn't stop bleeding players since.

    They are doing a good job in Mists though. Maybe Flex will bring back the design from Wrath and Normal/Heroic guilds will have a greater pool of player to recruit from. Since Raid Finder doesn't prove you are an able player at all.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterAU View Post
    Wrath was awful, Naxx, ToGC and to a lesser extent icc were pretty lame imo
    Naxx and ToGC were amazing! The revived old gear and the different set gear between the factions in ToGC was awesome.

  20. #80
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    all over the world
    Posts
    2,401
    threads like these are extremely biased and subjective at best. everyone has their own independent opinion about what time period of the game is best. personally i havent played MoP but i can safely say theres nothing really that draws me in or interests me enough to buy the game. this is however completely different than someone elses experience so theres no point in arguing the subject.

    for me, TBC was the pinnacle of WoW, thats when i had the most fun.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •