1. #1

    Iron Qon (10 man) help?

    Iron Qon has started to become a "wall" for our raid. I don't know if it's the mechanics of the fight or if people are just not playing their classes correctly. I am trying to help people as much as possible so I started a World of Logs for us to see if anyone is making any huge mistakes. Problem is I don't play most of those classes so could you guys take a look at the WoL and let me know if you see anything drastically wrong?

    On Iron Qon we start with the melee group taking 5 stacks, then the ranged taking 5, then the melee taking 3 and spreading. It seemed like a lot of damage was going out but our healers were getting through it. The second dog is what really hurts us. It's rare that everyone makes it through the wind storm. We did have 1 pull where everything went well and it possibly could have lead to a kill but the boss reset as soon as we killed the 2nd dog. It was heartbreaking.

    Anyway, any tips are appreciated. We really need the help.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gqtjj9f4ueqy06qh/

  2. #2
    1) If one of your guildie has an alt warlock, make him play it. It's THE fight where you want a warlock. Warlock's portal make the wind phase way, way easier.
    2) In phase 1, you can either make three groups that take 2 stacks or two group that take 4 stacks. There's no good reason to make your melee take 5 stacks. (Except in 10HM, but it's not relevant here.)

    If you can't afford a warlock, you'll have to use raid cooldown to ease windstorm damage AND find a way for your players - especially your healers- to get out as soon as possible. It's the healing done which is nerf inside the storm, not the healing recieved, so your heal have to move very quickly, using any speed cooldown they have.

    Edit: Good news is, we made our first kill without a warlock. After one or two hours wiping again and again in phase 2, we one shot the boss the first time we saw phase 3 and 4. If you make it to phase 3, you should be able to get a kill very quickly.
    Warrior soloing spreadsheet.

    Ittle Dew (Any%): 12:13
    Super Meat Boy (Any%): 21:50

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MVPisGHETTO View Post
    Iron Qon has started to become a "wall" for our raid. I don't know if it's the mechanics of the fight or if people are just not playing their classes correctly. I am trying to help people as much as possible so I started a World of Logs for us to see if anyone is making any huge mistakes. Problem is I don't play most of those classes so could you guys take a look at the WoL and let me know if you see anything drastically wrong?

    On Iron Qon we start with the melee group taking 5 stacks, then the ranged taking 5, then the melee taking 3 and spreading. It seemed like a lot of damage was going out but our healers were getting through it. The second dog is what really hurts us. It's rare that everyone makes it through the wind storm. We did have 1 pull where everything went well and it possibly could have lead to a kill but the boss reset as soon as we killed the 2nd dog. It was heartbreaking.

    Anyway, any tips are appreciated. We really need the help.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gqtjj9f4ueqy06qh/
    5 stacks are WAY over the top. You can do 3/3/3/3, easier on healers, and some more mana for later never hurts.

    Regarding windstorm, just wait for the first tornado to pass then run for it. Even with just autowalk everyone (or almost everyone) will make it. The point is dodging tornados while running, and not blindly running.

    Apart from that nothing else really, make sure you kill the third dog BEFORE 2nd windstorm (drop to 1tank/2 heals if needed).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by MVPisGHETTO View Post
    Iron Qon has started to become a "wall" for our raid. I don't know if it's the mechanics of the fight or if people are just not playing their classes correctly. I am trying to help people as much as possible so I started a World of Logs for us to see if anyone is making any huge mistakes. Problem is I don't play most of those classes so could you guys take a look at the WoL and let me know if you see anything drastically wrong?

    On Iron Qon we start with the melee group taking 5 stacks, then the ranged taking 5, then the melee taking 3 and spreading. It seemed like a lot of damage was going out but our healers were getting through it. The second dog is what really hurts us. It's rare that everyone makes it through the wind storm. We did have 1 pull where everything went well and it possibly could have lead to a kill but the boss reset as soon as we killed the 2nd dog. It was heartbreaking.

    Anyway, any tips are appreciated. We really need the help.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gqtjj9f4ueqy06qh/
    Based on the your attempts from logs, the most pressing issue with Windstorm that stands out the number of players being hit by the Rushing Winds (tornadoes) during the phase. Taken from your best attempt of the log, you can see here that in total, 7 players were hit by Rushing Winds. Not only do these cause a bit of extra damage, but most importantly the player is of course pulled back for a few seconds, forcing that player to be within the Windstorm that much longer.

    Therefore, the best thing your group can do is to be more careful about moving toward the room entrance while always avoiding touching a tornado at all costs. One key tip to help with this is a simple notion: Every single time a Windstorm phase begins and the tornadoes begin to spawn and rotate around, they always follow the same pattern. This means that in essence, once any individual player learns a path and timing to escape the Windstorm area without touching tornadoes, he or she can repeat this exact same path and timing sequence every single time they do Windstorm, even in future attempts or future raid weeks. So the best advice is to have everyone in the raid group just pick a direction and a timing at which to move out of Windstorm, and find the sequence of events needed to get them out safely and quickly. Once they learn it once, they can again repeat it every time without fail.

    For example, as a Monk, I have learned my fastest path out of Windstorm is to aim directly toward the entrance "wall" (I believe it's straight West), and once the initial stun that starts Windstorm wears off, I pause exactly 2 seconds, then roll forward twice in a row and keep running. This causes me to hold in the center for those first two seconds while the nearest tornado to my right passes safely in front of me, then with the movement of double-roll, I can get in front of the two tornadoes that are encroaching on my pathway and make it out of Windstorm ahead of them, all within 5-6 seconds.

    Obviously this exact timing and path won't work for others since it is unique to the movement speed/abilities of my class, but everyone should try to come up with a similar plan that they can get down once and then repeat ad nauseam.

    The second tip is for those players with immune effects to use them as soon as the Windstorm starts and they are free to move. For example, your Paladins should have no issue with Windstorm, because they can use Divine Shield once it starts and then freely run through everything, including tornadoes, without being afflicted.

    Thirdly, use movement boost abilities once Windstorm begins. The faster the raid can get out, the less damage taken and less potential for mistakes. Just make sure if you use a raid-wide movement boost, it is done at the same time every time, otherwise the "personal patterns" described above that everyone is developing will always be off in timing due to sometimes being faster than others.

    Fourth, as mentioned already, use raid cooldowns for the Windstorm phase to reduce damage income. Raid-wide damage reductions are the best (such as Aura Mastery), as well as personal damage reduction cooldowns. Windstorm does 50k a tick, so players should NEVER be taking that much damage if properly using cooldowns.

    Finally, your healers in particular should make every effort possible to get out of the Windstorm asap, because while inside and debuffed, their healing is reduced by 80% effectiveness. Therefore, healers should refrain from using big heal CDs while inside Windstorm and instead focus on getting out quickly. Once outside and the debuff has dropped, then your healers should spam their big recovery heal CDs to help top up the remaining players that are still inside Windstorm or taking damage.

    That about covers it I think. If you need any more tips, I might suggest this video guide as well. Good luck!

  5. #5
    A trick to escaping the Windstorm is to remember that the tornadoes move on fairly set tracks until after the storm is over. They move in opposite directions, just like the tornadoes on Alysrazor in Firelands.

    To get out safely, follow passing tornadoes in their track in the direction they are moving briefly, until the next tornado passes you, then move into its track and follow it.

    Like so:

  6. #6
    High Overlord Zace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    137
    For our guild we have ranged eat 3 stacks then me (Rogue) and the two tanks soak the rest until we're in range where we can spread out and burn him before he overloads. While me and the tanks soak and start getting railed we cycle Priest bubble/Smoke Bomb. And like others have said Warlock ports help immensely especially if you're letting your healers use it.

  7. #7
    Thanks all, I think we'll get it next week. I knew 5 stacks was too many but the healers said "it wasnt that bad". I'll talk to RL about all of this.

  8. #8
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    WHEREVER I WANT AINT NO ONE GONNA DO NOTHIN ABOUT IT IMMA T-REX
    Posts
    12,139
    5 stacks seems like a lot, but your issue is clearly tornados.

    In my experience, people tend to panic and just book it out of there as fast as possible, and end up getting picked up as a result. There's no reason to do that. It's better to stop, wait for one to pass, and then move forward. It's better to wait for an opening instead of just running right away. Take the time to angle your camera top down. All the problems I see (and have experienced myself) on this fight come from panicked running trying to "beat" the wind. The damage from the storm is fairly low, and you can easily survive taking your time -- while you usually don't if you get picked up. Slow and cautious wins here, guys!

    If you ever did the tornados on Alysrazor, these should be easy for you once you realise these move the exact same way. The easiest trick is to find one and follow it until another one passes, follow that one, and repeat until you've zig-zagged up the "rings" to the outside.
    AbathurSnuggles: Blizzard Alpha Videos

    For Moderation Concerns, please contact a Global:
    TzivaDarsithisRaduxSimcaElysiaZaelsinoxskarma

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MVPisGHETTO View Post
    Thanks all, I think we'll get it next week. I knew 5 stacks was too many but the healers said "it wasnt that bad". I'll talk to RL about all of this.
    5 stacks? o-O
    We go with 2/2/2 and never had an issue. With your group I'd go with.. 3 mele behind the boss as one group. 2 tanks and a pally healer in front of the boss as group 2. All ranged and remaining healers as group 3.
    If your groups are not stacked currently - let 2 mele stand on each other and far away from the remaining 2 mele. Tanks on top of each other in front of the boss (forming a triangle). Pally runs out.
    You need to be quick with stacking/unstacking though. Have someone RELIABLE to call it out (best if each group had someone vocal who would shout "Group 1 two stacks! Group 2 stack now!!")
    You have quite a lot of mele - If you can drop 1-2 then it will be easier in P1... (on our first kill we had 1 mele. Usually we try to not have more than 2 or else it's harded to form the groups).
    Also do you know about second lust?..
    The fight is over 10 mins so - BL at start of the fight to get through P1 quickly. Focus on tornados in P2 (you shouldn't get more than two). In p3 spread out untill everyone loose their lightning debuff from P2. Ease on DPS, go slow.. And by slow I mean FUCKIN SLOW (or 50 DKP minus!) to let the Bloodlust debuff to wear off. When you'll be like 1-2 mins till the debuff of BL falls - push to P4, stack up and DPS. BL as soon as you can and kill the boss.
    Basically P1 and 2 are hard phases. P3 and P4 should be pretty much a quaranteened kill if you can get through P1&P2.

    As for tornadoes - Monks can teleport at least half of the distance they have to run. Then just roll/roll.. Use Tiger's Lust on one of the healers (tell him though).
    Druid can Stampending Roar. If you Symbiosis a warrior he should get Stampending Shout (the same as Stampending Roar).
    Preferably get your Druid out first - so he can start Traquing as soon as he gets out.
    Tell your raiders to do couple of LFRs to train the running as well...
    And just train.. It's an easy fight when everyone gets how to stack in P1 and run through torndaos in P2..
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  10. #10
    is 5 stacks even possible??

    you only need to do 2. by the time the 3rd group has done their 2, the first group's debuff will be falling off.

    if you don't have a lock, everyone needs to spec into whatever speed boosts they have and they just have to learn how to get out of the tornadoes quickly.

  11. #11
    It's a combination, people aren't playing their classes well and you are making it hard for yourselves mechanically.

    First off, 5 stacks are not needed. Max out at 3, sure its more finicky but its a lot safer.

    I accept that with your progress you aren't the worlds top raiders but the holy pala is abysmal. He dies early in the few logs I checked but he seems to have no clue what hes doing when hes alive. Holy shock, his signature "must use on cooldown" spell doesn't get touched. Eternal flame, a talent so OP that Blizz is "fixing" it mid-tier does almost no healing for him. He really needs to post in the "fix my heals" section on the paladin forum to get some advice.

    On the topic of paladins. It's like "Hi, I have an ability that makes me completely immune to a windstorm", yet they still die to it pretty consistently. I'm not sure if this is because so many stacks are forced on them earlier they feel the need to bubble?
    General comment. People don't use defensives or the tools at their disposal. Pop devo aura and personal defensive before (like at the last second) a windstorm. Voila, all that time you are stunned you are taking about half the damage.

    I suspect that your problem with windstorms is people panicking and thinking "omg must get out asap" and then derping. They need to get out cleanly, not quickly. That means using all the tools at your disposal, deterrence, bubble, sprints, sacred shield which the rets talented but never use and so on.

    Don't just throw attempts at the boss. Tell each person to think about their actions on the part of the fight that is causing you trouble. You should also re-evaluate your setup for that boss. 2 tanks and 3 healers seems like complete overkill. It's very easy to solo tank with paladins in the raid. Alternatively, its very easy to 2 heal. Most people die at the stage where the healing they receive is reduced by 80%. You could stack 6 healers in there and they will still die if they play merri-go-round on tornadoes.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Most people die at the stage where the healing they receive is reduced by 80%. You could stack 6 healers in there and they will still die if they play merri-go-round on tornadoes.
    People inside the windstorm receive regular heals. It's heals and absorbs cast while inside that are reduced by 80%. So if you get at least 1 healer out of the windsorm he can heal everyone that are inside normally. Best is to get out druid fast so he can start tranquing..

    I agree with people not using their tools though.. Need to work on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •