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  1. #81
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    I also dont agree with the OP points.

    Well, remember the glorious days of BC? Having to get revered (nerfed to honored later) with a city to unlock the heroic dungeon? Or what if you choose to play a ret pally? LOLRET right? Or any class that dosent had any ccs like warriors, so many of "pff, you're a warrior, l2****tank and not dps!.

    And people now complains about dailies but forget all the shitty grind that was BC or Classic and claim it was better than now.

    And what about world pvp? I barely saw any in BC and i played on a high pop server back then. Now with CRZ, im seeing way more world pvp than the awesomesauce of BC times.

    Also if memory serve me right, all you had to do to queue for a battleground was to go to shatt and talk to the battlemaster of your faction or w/e was his name, i know the Ally side had a copy of He-Man, that was hilarious.

    Oh, and remember still in BC where BM hunters had a 1 macro buttom to unleash all their rotation? What about those locks back in the day huh? Left side of keyboard = sac succy, Right side = Shadowbolt.

    And people say mage's rotations are easy.

    IMO there's only two good things about BC: The new races and the option to fly. I still dont get how flying ruined the game or the pvp. You could still hop in your land mount and escape just fine.

    I see alot of people complaining about how pve is easy or about LFR, but yet none of them has a heroic kill when the content is current.

    About teleporting to dungeons/raids, IMO blizz should had done what they did in cata, in order to unlock the queue for said dungeon, you first have to discover it.

    /sigh, i still have nightmares of farming all those damned herbs in Felwood or killing endless monsters for that troll in Winterspring...

    And people complain about....the...grind in MoP...

    /shakefist.
    Last edited by Nihal; 2013-07-27 at 06:37 AM.

  2. #82
    Epic! Neganova's Avatar
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    I feel as though these threads rarely introduce any original or fresh ideas.

    LFD and LFR were the spawn of the Antichrist. We get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazia View Post
    Your mom is so fat shes the reason blizzard made a limit on mage food.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanochan View Post
    This.

    We don't need another thread for this...

    Also about world pvp: YOU USE TO HAVE A CHANCE AT KILLING THEM. Now, people don't give a damn to help you and 90's are ridiculously OP compared to old 60's.
    Fun anecdote: I was once able to kill a level 60 with my 44 warlock, but she had rez sickness so it wasn't really a fair kill. Outside of something like that there really was no chance for the low levels, especially against the gods of Vanilla (rogues).
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  4. #84
    Another reason why WoW isn't what it used to be is because...Blizzard changed it. Ooooh. Maybe you should take off the rose-tinted glasses, see how many problems older WoW had, acknowledge that changes had to be made to keep an aging game fresh, and, oh yeah, and I mean this with 100% of my being, GET THE EFF OVER IT.
    Once you go troll, you never reroll. -heard on cynicalbrit.com. Epic.

  5. #85
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    You are right OP, WOW is not what it used to be.

    It is much, much, better.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  6. #86
    Dreadlord Brightamethyst's Avatar
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    LFD/Flying mounts/etc didn't kill world PvP. It died off on it's own because players don't want it any more.

    Let's look back to Quel'danas. I don't know about you guys, but on my server (PvP) it was a war zone. It was a madhouse of questers killing each other doing dailies, parties and guilds killing each other outside the instances, etc. Now flash forward a few years to Molten Front. Same setup, and... nothing. Everyone just went about their business, did their dailies in peace, and left.

    Blizzard didn't cause that. The mindset of the players has changed over time. These days it's all about efficiency, and PvPing just makes questing take longer, or cuts into your raiding time, or whatever. You, and I, and the vocal minority that posts on forums might miss world PvP, but the vast majority of the overall player base doesn't seem to, otherwise it would happen more. There are still plenty of opportunities for it.

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    I dare you to come play on my server for a month. Let's see how long you last without resorting to those two things.
    I dare you to server transfer.

  8. #88
    Agree with your first few points.

    LFD, This ruined the ability of everyone running to a dungeon, meeting up with a bunch of people and fighting opposing factions.
    "Stand's waiting, then all of an sudden a Undead Warlock comes with a group of friends. You try to survive until your friends arrive, then fight them or run into the instance because you're scared." This engaged epic world pvp and allowed people in the world.

    Flying Mounts ruined the WORLD aspect of the game. World of Warcraft was exciting because we got to see new areas in the world to explore.
    Cataclysm revamped an entire world that we used to love, but they decided to hand out flying mounts at level 60 and increase the rate of quests, not only did this force us to skip over alot of great towns, forests, villages, caves, but it also pushed us out of the "NEW" questing zones alot faster because Exp was too low. Removing flying from kalimdor and eastern kindgoms until level 80, instead of 60.

    Heroic Mode made raiding so basic.
    In ulduar, we had to do special things to unlock heroic mode, then ICC comes out and boom, Heroic Lichking in a flick of a menu switch.
    Yes, they've added elite modes to fix this problem, but it doesn't really FIX the problem. This game is becoming nothing but menu's

  9. #89
    The world needed this thread. Dailies, LFR, LFD, flying mounts are bad. f2p is good. Some people apparently really don't have anything better to do with their time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

  10. #90
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    LFD: this saves lots of time. I didn't like having to fly to places to summon lazy slackers. I didn't want to have to wait around waiting for someone else to go there and summon me. I don't care about the so-called 'great world PVP experience' that came from people camping the couple of dudes that were going to summon you. I am very glad to see it gone because it wasted my time and irritated me.

    Flying: definitely improved the game immensely by letting me get to places faster. Do I really want to walk through Zul'Drak another time when I level? No. I like being able to fly around quickly on my 310% speed mounts because it's noticeably better than walking around on 100% speed and dodging mobs, fighting people and taking longer. Cannot understand why you seem to think that is a better experience. During leveling the first time through a zone? Sure, I tolerate it. I have to. I like being able to fly where I want to go, kill what I have to and avoid any Horde when they outnumber me dramatically. Conversely, I like to swoop down and kill lowbies and laugh at them when it pleases me. Why? Because it's fun.

    Heroic Mode: something that should just be removed period as far as I'm concerned. Make raids really hard at a basic level and add a couple of optional extra things here and there for achievements or whatever and leave LFR and the simpler versions of Flex. Heroic mode is an outdated concept as far as I'm concerned.


    LFR: it's staying. Deal with it. It's made the game immensely better. I love it and do it all the time whenever I feel like. A lot of other people seem to like it or else why would they be there. It didn't ruin the game, it gave people that are bored of raiding in a normal way something fun to do. Your whole "you could just sit there eating some chips and not looking at things" is why some people have to carry it. You are the problem with LFR. I'd rather they removed Heroic modes altogether rather than LFR since they're saying "well I do Heroic derp a derp and I just get a different coloured set of armour" so bam, if Heroc mode's gone you won't have to worry about that no-lifers. LFR should just be built on and expanded. All the good raiders banded together and formed up into less numerous guilds. All the bad 'raiders' were stuck since nobody would carry them and are now failing hard in Normal modes and like to rage at how LFR is denying them potential recruits. That is a fact.

    World's Changing, WoW's not: except it is. You are just buttmad because you're too bad to get into a good guild and blame LFR and casualisation for that despite the fact that LFR and casualisation are the way forward. WoW's becoming a more casual game. There's still challenges left in the game, they just don't have all of the rewards anymore. If you don't play for the challenge, you're doing it wrong. Or, as I assume, you are just bad and are stuck in Normals/few heroic modes and can't recruit new players because people are sick of dealing with guild drama and the whole 'raid scene' is dying out. This is a change. It is a good change.

    Dailies in MoP suck: yep. I agree with you there. I've always hated them so I don't do them. I suffered through the Golden Lotus so I could get the other two reps I needed for enchants then never bothered again. When I need rep for my alts, I just kill a bunch of Warscouts and send over the rep items. Some people like them so whatever. Just make them less mandatory for things like enchants or bags or some shit or give an easy way like Warscouts to get the rep and bam, go nuts Blizzard.

    PVP sucks: world PVP is better than it ever was. You ever sat at the Ox temple with your 3s team with Hardened Shells for an hour? It's the most intense and random fun you can possibly imagine. Want money? Go kill one of the rares right near it while you wait for more PVE nerds to walk into your sights and get their mates together so you can stomp entire guilds. It's great fun and aggravates the other faction enough that they come fight you. Love every minute of it.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonheart View Post
    If there is a single word or two that describes what ruined WoW its "accessibility" or "more accessibility".

    MMOs as a genre have always thrived on the exclusivity factor. Remember when I first started playing the game. There was a rogue decked out in Ulduar gear that was standing in Stormwind and I was just in awe looking at her. This was when I was probably in the very low levels. I never knew or even expected what I would have to go through or what raiding would be like.

    Now almost everyone has access to gear. And don’t tell me that gear doesn’t matter or Heroic raiders have “heroic” written on the item. It matters a lot and always has. Raiding simply became more accessible as expansions were released. And that is just to do with raiding.

    The game as a whole is simply accessible to everyone and anyone with no effort required. There is nothing that distinguishes one from the other.
    Very well put. Agree 100%! For the past few years, I've been forced to watch my favorite MMO being treated like some sort of an App store game. I really hope Blizzard wises up soon, and does a 180 on their design philosophy.

  12. #92
    The heroic-mode fights in Ulduar aren't that much different than the heroic fights in raids now. Instead of switching a button, or not killing other mobs, it's simply on heroic the entire run. There were too many times when people hit the button on Mimiron when people were explaining it, or people spoke to a keeper before the Yogg fight, screwing up the achievements and harder progress. As far as that, I feel heroic raiding is simpler, but not worse. There are other mechanics, there is more damage, and there is better gear. There just isn't some flawed gimmick to activating it on each individual fight.

    -I feel LFD/LFR is a good thing. As I've said multiple times, it gives more people more things to do, and more people opportunities to see that content without having to compete with people who are more hardcore about it. Everyone wins in this.
    -I like the ability to fly in continents after I've leveled.
    -Dailies aren't a problem at all anymore.
    -I have little opinion about a subscription. I wouldn't mind not having to pay each month, but I also wouldn't want to rely on an in-game store for most new pets, mounts, and transmog. I feel an occasional pet or mount from there is not bad, and I feel like the fee of $15 a month already discourages Blizzard from getting *too* nuts in making too much stuff to sell in the Pet Store. That is, unless they made WoW F2P, and each pet/mount/transmog piece was dirt cheap, and they still didn't add too many things. Either way, then.
    -World PvP isn't an issue for a lot of players. Those that were really interested in it did so, mostly on pvp servers. Then again, I don't pvp at all. I remember a couple times when there were huge ambushes in Ashenvale in vanilla, but they were a fun one-time deal for me. I can understand why people complain about it, but I don't agree. It took just as much planning and cooperation back then as it does now. If so many people wanted to do it now, they would. Clearly, it's a thing of the past. Queueing up for battlegrounds and arenas made it easier to access battlegrounds. Going out in the world to queue wouldn't change anything. People would still be standing in one spot, except they would be wherever they are allowed to queue, instead of being in queue while doing other things.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    LFD has downsides, yes but still one of the best ideas added to the game.

    PvP shouldn't be an income, it's war. You can already loot those quest things from players which sells between 20g and 300g a piece. There's no problem with no rewards but honor/conquest and kicking peoples asses!

    The negatives of LFG far outweigh the positives, if you look at the bigger picture.

    PVP has always, and will always be an afterthought, compared to PVE in WoW. Now It's a legitimate endgame path (since BC I'd say), many prefer over PVE, but it's not the "main game". There needs to be some sort of PVE content (besides leveling) PVP'ers are encouraged to do, to keep the game from truly becoming a lobby / queue experience.

    The amount of "join queue" in this game is far more than should be even now, just imagine the life of a PVPer if everything including gold could be obtained through PVP.

    - Join Queue

    - Buy gear piece

    - Hearth SW/Org

    - Enchant

    - Join Queue

    - Buy gear piece

    x Infinity


    *I'd much rather have a sub model than a cash shop. Do you really want them to focus *more* on store development at the cost of other content?
    I'll take sub over cash shop any day as well.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    Flying Mounts ruined the WORLD aspect of the game. World of Warcraft was exciting because we got to see new areas in the world to explore.
    Cataclysm revamped an entire world that we used to love, but they decided to hand out flying mounts at level 60 and increase the rate of quests, not only did this force us to skip over alot of great towns, forests, villages, caves, but it also pushed us out of the "NEW" questing zones alot faster because Exp was too low. Removing flying from kalimdor and eastern kindgoms until level 80, instead of 60.
    I think when I first started playing I was amazed at the world, then when I got my first mount at 40 I would auto-run and pan the camera to view the world as it passed by, and then I quit caring and just pointed myself to where I wanted to go and started auto running and alt tabbed to Thottbot or watched a movie occasionally glancing to see if i've arrived. Flying mounts had nothing to do with destroying the world aspect of wow, not for me at least.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Brightamethyst View Post
    LFD/Flying mounts/etc didn't kill world PvP. It died off on it's own because players don't want it any more.

    Let's look back to Quel'danas. I don't know about you guys, but on my server (PvP) it was a war zone. It was a madhouse of questers killing each other doing dailies, parties and guilds killing each other outside the instances, etc. Now flash forward a few years to Molten Front. Same setup, and... nothing. Everyone just went about their business, did their dailies in peace, and left.

    Blizzard didn't cause that. The mindset of the players has changed over time. These days it's all about efficiency, and PvPing just makes questing take longer, or cuts into your raiding time, or whatever. You, and I, and the vocal minority that posts on forums might miss world PvP, but the vast majority of the overall player base doesn't seem to, otherwise it would happen more. There are still plenty of opportunities for it.
    Well me and my friends tried get some pvp going on in molten dailies. We were on underpopulated side (way underpopulated) so we expected disadvantage but fun. There was no fun, there was angry whispers from lvl 1 people =(
    Your lord is under attack! Your lord is under attack!

  16. #96
    I totally disagree with the OPs nostalgica-wow-is-in-ruins-thread number 3.754.328 .....

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    Well me and my friends tried get some pvp going on in molten dailies. We were on underpopulated side (way underpopulated) so we expected disadvantage but fun. There was no fun, there was angry whispers from lvl 1 people =(
    lol that's so funny, when I first started playing I was on a pvp server and would get ganked all the time. I rerolled on a pve server and have had peace and quiet ever since They can't complain if they are on a pvp realm.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    Flying Mounts ruined the WORLD aspect of the game. World of Warcraft was exciting because we got to see new areas in the world to explore.
    Cataclysm revamped an entire world that we used to love, but they decided to hand out flying mounts at level 60 and increase the rate of quests, not only did this force us to skip over alot of great towns, forests, villages, caves, but it also pushed us out of the "NEW" questing zones alot faster because Exp was too low. Removing flying from kalimdor and eastern kindgoms until level 80, instead of 60.
    Flying Mounts didn't ruin exploring. In fact, it has added to it. It's easier to fly around and explore things now. It has made the world smaller, sure, but by no means has it taken away the exploring factor.

    What has killed of exploring, however, is the way questing is handled, and has been, especially since WotLK and onwards. Classic had it right if you ask me. There weren't as many quest hubs and pointer quests as there are today. You had to regularly run around and try to find some quests you could do that where within your level range. I feel like a locust now jumpin from quest hub to quest hub, you have to complete the quest at the first hub, to unlock the quests at the next hub, and so on. Classic had far less of this sort, where it was mostly your level that determined whether you could pick up a quest or not.

    If there's one thing I'd like to see reverted, it's the rather boring questing experience. I used to enjoy questing from 1-60 up until Cataclysm screwed up the old world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    LFR, This design was great, till it was implemented.
    Grouped up with 24 random strangers, who won't give a flying hoot about you. Then you have atleast 4 people who queue, put someone on follow, then afks while they're eating chips or watching re runs of Big Bang Theory. Flex modes is supposed to fix this problem, but once again they're implementing it wrong. Remove LFR, and implement Flex mode into normal. That way we can recruit others from diff realms but still be engaged. Heroic Modes would still require a server coordinated group for that current content.
    I don't see a problem here. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Join a guild and do it the old fashion way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post

    The World is Evolving while World of Warcraft is not.

    We still pay $15 a month, and $40 for a new expansion that comes out. I feel it's about time blizzard lowers their price for a month, or remove it completely. Keep the prices for expansions, but remove the monthly fee. That way you can focus on a blizzard store that would engage players.
    Like league of legends and their skins. (Helm transmogs was a slap to our face, especially when we pay for this game. I have a Celestial Steed, but epic transmog like that just hurts. HURTS!)
    I'd rather have a sub fee, than risk it turning into World of Tanks.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    lol that's so funny, when I first started playing I was on a pvp server and would get ganked all the time. I rerolled on a pve server and have had peace and quiet ever since They can't complain if they are on a pvp realm.
    Yea, I think it's strange that people dont understand it =) To me it was the opposite, I still remember that alliance rogue who leveled up same time as me, we met and either me or him was some levels older than the other and there was fighting going on. I remember he brought a high lvl rogue friend with him, and I was stuck dead in a cave in tarren mill for like an hour... they were watching my body. But finally I made it when they had their backs towards me, I ressed, finished my quest and even HS:ed away =) I liked a scary world, that's why I always roll pvp server, even if it sometimes means ganking and waiting to finish stuff.
    And there is pve servers if you want to level in peace like you said, and they are there for that reason. So why can't people choose the server of their choice? Would be so much better for everyone then
    Your lord is under attack! Your lord is under attack!

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    Sounds like you didn't pve much in 5.0
    Dailies were basically required to get epics.
    That's quite a statement, especially after saying you agreed with a quote claiming that the game was better when things were much more exclusive.

    Hmm, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Warsong Gulch. Those weren't in capital towns. Did you play before Cataclysm?
    Righteous much? Battlemasters have been in cities since Burning Crusade. Did you play before Cata?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Complaining about a lack of world PVP is utter bollox. Most 'pvpers' sit on realms so heavily weighted in favour of their own faction that there wouldn't be world PVP even if Blizzard successfully forced level 90s out into the world. Almost all PVP servers are 1:0.1 or something ridiculous. If you crave world PVP, xfer to a server where you're the 0.1 instead of the 1. Don't bemoan the disappearance of something that you're depriving yourself of.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What has killed of exploring, however, is the way questing is handled, and has been, especially since WotLK and onwards. Classic had it right if you ask me. There weren't as many quest hubs and pointer quests as there are today. You had to regularly run around and try to find some quests you could do that where within your level range. I feel like a locust now jumpin from quest hub to quest hub, you have to complete the quest at the first hub, to unlock the quests at the next hub, and so on. Classic had far less of this sort, where it was mostly your level that determined whether you could pick up a quest or not.
    Agree with this completely. Quest hubs are fine in moderation, but the fun of old-school questing was stumbling upon a random quest here and there. Having said that, I don't miss those quests that required 20 minutes travel on foot to complete, only to have to repeat the same journey 4 or 5 times to finish the chain. There surely has to ba a happy medium.
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