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  1. #161
    High Overlord Axylum's Avatar
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    Why can't people stop making posts like these. No it isn't going to change back. I enjoyed every expansion
    in its own way. There is absolutely no need to create threads full of complaining and comparing. I have nothing
    against nostalgic threads but cmon this is getting a bit annoying..

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Axylum View Post
    Why can't people stop making posts like these.
    Discussion happened on a forum. Call the internet police!
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    LFD, This ruined the ability of everyone running to a dungeon, meeting up with a bunch of people and fighting opposing factions.
    "Stand's waiting, then all of an sudden a Undead Warlock comes with a group of friends. You try to survive until your friends arrive, then fight them or run into the instance because you're scared." This engaged epic world pvp and allowed people in the world.
    This sounds good and all until you're camped because the Horde players has full PVP gear and the only thing you want is to enter the damn dungeon cause you have only an hour until you have to do something else.
    Signature and Avatar by ElyPop

  4. #164
    I (like some others) agree with most of your points - except for the monthly fee one.
    I don't feel like I'm having an adventure in a fantasy land anymore, no sense of danger, or journey, or acomplishment... all of it feels like a job I can get over with fast / queue through menus just so I can later do some raiding..

    Sig by Pangcakes

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    WoW is a completely different animal to what it was back in Vanilla and TBC. I almost wish the didn't make Sunwell Plateau because that I think was a big tipping point, for both developers and players. Up until that point, everything had been (imo) perfect. With SWP, I think a lot of players got pissed off because it was so hard it was virtually impossible, and Blizzard decided to run the other direction and changed their approach to raid encounters.

    What's been lost:

    Exclusivity, and by this I mean of the content. Back when WoW was growing it was hard to progress, people in raid gear stood out and were clearly good players and/or in good guilds. A lot of people attribute this wish for exclusivity to selfish hardcore no lifers who want to lord it over everyone, but in truth exclusivity of content applied everywhere, from the first endgame dungeons upwards. This whole 'everyone who pays a subscription deserves to see the content' mantra is a mistake, everyone deserves the chance to see the content, and we already had that before multi-tier difficulty started to be implemented.

    I miss the thrill of seeing a raid for the first time, or a beating boss for the first time. Now I beat something and it's not on the hardest setting so I gotta do it again, or it is on the hardest setting and I've already 'beaten' it maybe two or three times on the preceding difficulties and man am I bored of seeing the same raid zone, same boss, same RP speeches again. It meant challenging content that created a pecking order of players who could only rise up that pecking order by being better players, and by avoiding behavior seen as antisocial. It also to some extend encouraged better social interaction, though I'm not saying that douche bags didn't exist, they definitely weren't as widespread as they are now.

    Which leads me to team play. With the queue systems in place and especially cross realm, gone or the days where you made friends because you needed other players to overcome challenges. Almost all my friends list when I last unsubbed were friends I made in the first 2-3 expansions, I have made almost no new lasting friends since. There's just no need. I really miss finding someone to help me with something or helping someone else out, overcoming something difficult together, and having that "Mind if I add/I've added you to my friends list" moment, or finishing a dungeon with a tank who interrupts, a DPS who reliably CCs, a player who doesn't roll Need on stuff he simply does not need or even passes on something they do need just to be generous. Think of all the really great multiplayer moments you've had with RL friends, and imagine that ingame all the time. Players working together to kick ass, instead of ninja-looting as fast as they can and running off just as fast.

    I'm also discouraged by their need to charge a subscription fee, and for character alterations and server moves, and have a cosmetic shop, and soon it seems maybe more than just cosmetics, XP boosts too. I despise greedy companies that do not put their customers first, I will not support them. I've blown hundreds of £'s in games where it is clear that the gamers are put first, I'm not short on cash, the sub fee doesn't bother me at all. But the greedy image Blizzard are earning does, and having Bobby Kotick in charge really bothers me. I would shoot that man in a heartbeat, he has no business being in charge of a games company.

    Moving forward, I would say that Blizzard should merge realms into large CRZ servers, similar to how TERA handles their servers, with players freely able to move between servers. This reduces the need for server transfers (unless you want to move between one merged server group and another), and then we can do away with cross server LFR and LFD. There should be enough players per server group to sustain healthy queues, particularly with dual specs. This should in turn have a knock on effect with player behaviour, if you're on the same server and people will remember you, you're more likely to not be a douche bag.

    I would also do what someone else suggested, replace LFR with Flexi, they fill the same niche, Flexi just does it better. Again I can see bad player social attitudes being mitigated here. Personally I would see Normal and Heroic merged, with earlier encounter bosses being closer to normal difficulty, and later ones being more like Heroic. Remove the regurgitation of content, it gets old fast. Optional bosses at heroic difficulty so there is always something to work towards. I honestly believe that people get bored because there is nothing more to work towards, and this welfare state that Blizzard have created needs to be gone. Purple gear should mean something. I know Blizzard supposedly tried it at the start of Cataclysm (I found it great) but there was a lot of complaints about it, personally I think Blizzard should have stuck to their guns. Better to lose some casuals than nearly half the player base.

    I'm currently enjoying various private servers, especially Vanilla and TBC ones, and while I miss certain quality of life features from the live servers, I relish the challenging content and feeling like I am part of the world, not just soaring past it. I think Blizzard would do well to make changes based on making the game a better place to be socially, and on making content less accessible. After all they've being doing the exact opposite since WotLK launched and it has led to a uniform loss in subs, going back a few steps and walking a different path can't possibly leave them any worse off.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Weightlifter View Post
    Lol at all those "b-b-but you don't have to, you can still do it the old-fashioned way" people. Good luck trying to find a dungeon group manually when it takes like 10 minutes to finish a dungeon, including the time spent in queue.
    So it was somehow better in the old days when you spammed trade for 2 hours and the dungeon took 45 minutes to finish?

  7. #167
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    LFD, This ruined the ability of everyone running to a dungeon, meeting up with a bunch of people and fighting opposing factions.
    First off all, I hate world PVP. 9 out of 10 times it exists of a high level/high geared player that comes to rape your face while you don't have a chance. Secondly, I've been playing on non-pvp servers for ages. So this only applies to the part of the community who does actually plays on a PVP server and enjoys either murdering low level/low geared players or people who enjoy being murdered without standing a chance.

    Besides, if it wasn't for LFD I would have to quest through all the zones or it'd take me weeks to get to max level as finding groups in trade was so much fun.

    Flying Mounts ruined the WORLD aspect of the game. World of Warcraft was exciting because we got to see new areas in the world to explore.
    Agreed, I don't think Flying Mounts were necessary in Azeroth. With flightpaths, groundmounts, boats, the tram and zappelins there were plenty of possibilities to travel around the world.

    This is something LFD and LFR have also contributed to...

    Heroic Mode made raiding so basic.
    Ulduar was epic, yes! But ToT is a very good raid as well imo... Disagree with this too

    LFR, This design was great, till it was implemented.
    I don't see how this should affect you, you can simply choose not to do it. I don't do this either...

    The World is Evolving while World of Warcraft is not.
    WoW should NOT be F2P.. I rather have good content!

    Dailies in Mists of Pandaria are boring and dead.
    Not sure what your point is here... I don't particularly like dailies either, but they're not such a problem as you made it out to be...

    The world of PvP, slapped in the face.
    Raiding is more expensive than PVP, not sure why you'd go on about that. Besides, gold is seriously easy to come by nowadays. I don't think many people would like to go back out in the world to queue for bg's as it seriously limits the diversity. Nowadays there are so many BG's you can do, if you have to go all over the place all the time (and have flying mounts removed, like you want it) it'll be stupid more than anything else...
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    WoW is a completely different animal to what it was back in Vanilla and TBC.
    [X] Bobby Kotick is the devil
    [X] Vanilla servers will save WoW

    A lot of text to just check those boxes mate. It was well written though, too bad there was nothing in it that hasn't been said already in the previous pages.

    Vanilla servers are not happening - it's been stated to death, but you seem to be playing on Private servers so GG, you're probably happy there.
    Bobby Kotick being the root of all evil and greediness - I'm not really sure you understand on what level CEO's operate - to quote Wikipedia:

    At Activision, Kotick set out to build "an institutional quality, well managed company with a focus on the independent developer."[4] In a June 14, 2010 interview with gaming blog Kotaku, Kotick stated, "…[P]art of the whole philosophy of Activision was whether you're owned outright or not, if you're a studio you have control of your destiny, you could make decisions about who to hire, flexibility on what products to make, how to make them, schedules appropriate to make them, budgets."[5]
    I've seen far worse mission statements from CEO's, but I guess there's no point even trying to sway your opinion. Your hate about Kotick somehow being personally responsible for Blizzard cash shop items (or even the cash shop strategy) is somewhat irrational and I'd be surprised if he was involved on such operational level at all.

  9. #169
    High Overlord
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    It is not about bringing back World PvP, it is about bringing people back to the world and World PvP will happen. This game need more world and less istances, it an mmorpg, not an arcade!

  10. #170
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamyz View Post
    [X] Bobby Kotick is the devil
    [X] Vanilla servers will save WoW
    As far as gaming goes, he is. I cannot be arsed to go out and find all the quotes and actions taken over the years that creates this consensus that he is the worst person to be in charge of a gaming company. There are plenty of factual articles out there painting him in a bad light, I've never read one where he has been praised. Ever.

    Do some research, post intelligently.

    As for vanilla servers, I didn't ask for them, I know they won't officially happen, it doesn't bother me because if I want them they're out there. I did make a lot of commentary on some of what I feel are the bad design changes that were made and maybe where Blizzard could focus their efforts going forward, but you were too busy trying to be clever to address those.

    Easier to ignore what you don't want to hear so that you can be the funny man online, I guess.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    What's been lost:

    Exclusivity,
    Exclusivity could never have been a sustainable value proposition for the game, for the simple reason that most players, by definition, will never experience exclusive content. (If they did, it wouldn't be exclusive.)
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  12. #172
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Exclusivity could never have been a sustainable value proposition for the game, for the simple reason that most players, by definition, will never experience exclusive content. (If they did, it wouldn't be exclusive.)
    Everyone thinks of exclusivity as only the top 1% seeing a raid, but it's something that permeates all levels of content, from class specific quests to attunements to dungeons to raids. The idea is that there is always something to be working towards, and that it requires you to work with others to achieve it.

    These days you can achieve everything on your own within a week or so of the content being delivered, for casuals maybe a few weeks or so. There is nothing to work towards, you interact with no one. There are no friends you made in the dungeon run that went really well last week saying, hey let's go do this cool thing just because it'll be fun, because you don't need friends anymore.

    EDIT: Read the Facebook page for MMO-Champion, on the post where they linked the MMO-C article about the sub loss, there are ~200 comments, 90% of which are: got bored, quit. Easier content has not attracted subs, in fact the only time that WoW was growing was when content was harder and more exclusive. That doesn't mean that this is necessarily the right way to go of course, I mean WoW was new back then and built on a popular franchise, but arguments can be made.
    Last edited by Tarien; 2013-07-28 at 02:22 PM.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
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    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it. - H. Ford

  13. #173
    [QUOTE=Creations;21886676]LFR, This design was great, till it was implemented.
    Grouped up with 24 random strangers, who won't give a flying hoot about you. Then you have atleast 4 people who queue, put someone on follow, then afks while they're eating chips or watching re runs of Big Bang Theory. Flex modes is supposed to fix this problem, but once again they're implementing it wrong. Remove LFR, and implement Flex mode into normal. That way we can recruit others from diff realms but still be engaged. Heroic Modes would still require a server coordinated group for that current content.
    [B]

    QUOTE]


    I agree with most of your points except for this one, Flex is what LFR should have been from the very start, the ability to PUG anytime and have the difficulty reduced, to not get raped by the first couple of bosses and everyone quit, and not have to bring X amount of people and as many as u want up to 25. Flex should never replace normal modes, if you cant handle normal mode well tough there are thousands of guilds that clear normal and will only have a few heroics kills by the end of the tier, and to think the jump from flex to heroic for most guilds would just be unrealistic. The average player that would use Flex and maybe would want something more would never be able to make the jump to heroics unless blizz changed the difficulty which would only water down heroic raiding and take away the challenge it offers. IMO drop LFR for FLEX, but it wont happen now as lfr has already laid its roots into the game and there would prob be a huge backlash from the community
    Last edited by Quilm; 2013-07-28 at 02:34 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Wirzy View Post
    It is not about bringing back World PvP, it is about bringing people back to the world and World PvP will happen. This game need more world and less istances, it an mmorpg, not an arcade!
    This game has TOO much world. The player base is going down, and theres all this world for such few people.

    Formely known as Creations
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  15. #175
    Stood in the Fire JasonWuzHear's Avatar
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    LFD and LFR become pointless with the release of virtual realms and Flex raiding.

    If blizz had implemented larger realms or had done the virtual/cross realm thing earlier, then wouldn't have been a need for LFD or LFR.
    wuz i rly hear m8?

  16. #176
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonWuzHear View Post
    If blizz had implemented larger realms or had done the virtual/cross realm thing earlier, then wouldn't have been a need for LFD or LFR.
    Except that back then, hardware was not as powerful as today. For example, in early LK, my realm ran into huge instance lag issues because the raid servers couldn't keep up with all those players running Naxx.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    For example, in early LK, my realm ran into huge instance lag issues because the raid servers couldn't keep up with all those players running Naxx.
    I think that was more a Wintergrasp issue. Naxx instances can be moved to other blades.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  18. #178
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think that was more a Wintergrasp issue. Naxx instances can be moved to other blades.
    But they weren't, that's exactly my point. We had lag IN the instance, not outside. Made Thaddius a damn nightmare.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by TylerN View Post
    Not going to happen anytime soon, blizzard is a business after all. And business is still good, so why change the payment model ?
    However, if it keeps going downhill, they will have to make changes. That is obvious.
    If you think blizzard is business well you are right but back in my old days blizzard was putting heart to their games to made an amazing game and give us epick yourney and no just another game to make more money. This isnt hapening anymore. Also Blizzard reputation drop really hard in last few years with failrure of diablo 3 and now with MOP i am not gonna buy anymore exp after MOP becous blizzard as 12y old fan failed for me hard.

    And it isnt jsut about that subs dtop to 7m. Imagine when Blizzard will annouce their new mmo with their everything for everyone model. If Blizzard will not fix wow with their another exp their reputation will drop so hard that they will just becom another average company.
    Last edited by Sinndor; 2013-07-28 at 10:06 PM.

  20. #180
    If Blizzard will not fix wow with their another exp their reputation will drop so hard that they will just becom another average company.
    I think the damage to the game is already done, most people I know only kept their sub up in some sort of hope there would be drastic change to the direction of the game.

    As we all know, Blizzard never reverts changes completely. If they break something, they fix something else so the broken thing is less broken.

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