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  1. #21
    I really do miss the old talent trees. Not so much at max level but while levelling alts. You used to alternate between getting a new talent point to spend and a new ability to learn/use. It really felt like you were getting rewarded for each level you gained even if that reward is a +1% to crit. Now you can go 4 to 5 levels without getting a single thing to make your character feel more advanced and more powerful. It really has made levelling more of a slog and a grind then it used to.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Yes, a lot. Would love to see some hybrid system on the horizon.

  3. #23
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    You don't like any form of change do ya.
    Have we been playing the same game? (and really, forum-stalking me, now?) MoP's talent system was a huge overhaul, and one I fully supported because the choices mattered a lot more than "Here's EJ's latest build. Follow it or suck."

    edit: To elaborate: liking something and recognizing it can be expanded on or use fine-tuning aren't mutually-exclusive concepts. The current system is a good one, but lacks the by-level feel of progression the old one had and could use several extra tiers to give it more presence while leveling 1-90.

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  4. #24
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    No, I do not miss the old system where everyone used a cookie cutter build.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    The current talent system is just about non existent. The original one was more detailed and as such, more interesting.

    Just like the whole game.
    There's nothing interesting about having to spend talent points to get a % damage increase or increased crit, or spells you need for your spec's rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sills View Post
    I really do miss the old talent trees. Not so much at max level but while levelling alts. You used to alternate between getting a new talent point to spend and a new ability to learn/use. It really felt like you were getting rewarded for each level you gained even if that reward is a +1% to crit. Now you can go 4 to 5 levels without getting a single thing to make your character feel more advanced and more powerful. It really has made levelling more of a slog and a grind then it used to.
    This is pretty much just opinion.
    Gaining 1% crit or 2% fire spell damage did not feel rewarding or empowering to me, the talent trees felt slow, and once you got used to the game it just felt like an endless grind to get the one or two interesting talents in the three and the abilities you needed for your rotation.

    Hitting 15/30/45/60 etc, and gaining an interesting ability or being able to customize your character feels far more progressive than getting +1% damage every two levels.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2013-07-27 at 12:14 AM.
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  6. #26
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    I do miss the old trees sometimes. The new talent system has more or less trivialized the entire glyph system by turning it into a set of ancillary talents.
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  7. #27
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    No. I think the new talent system -- while not perfect -- is way way superior.
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  8. #28
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    I think the current talent system is one of the best things the game has going for it, especially compared to other games where I need to spend hours just to figure out builds that end up becoming "doing it wrong" builds.

  9. #29
    I do. A lot. I used to create weird combinations just to play around. Also I miss having lots of common abilities available on my shadow priest. I love Smite. It's my favourite offensive spell in the game. And now I can't use it anymore. How did the developers got so tunnel-visioned to not understand the simple truth: talent trees are almost never about variety in max-performance situations. There is no variety in max-performance situations. When confronted with a choice, there is either the best of two or more choices, or all others are irrelevant and there is only one relevant choice, or all are irrelevant so the choice is irrelevant itself

    Talent trees were not about maximum performance, they were a small reward while levelling, and mostly, they were about having fun trying things out just to play around.

    But alas, the "balance" and streamlining, along with over-simplification and hand-holding has struck again.

  10. #30
    The new talent system is better for convenience and end-game, the old talent system is better for progression and leveling. The old system was intricate by infinity and beyond compared to the new one, especially once expansions started flowing. But a lot of it was trumped by the "Standard" builds or the fact people hate seeing different play styles. The latter (Hate) still happens with the system in place today, especially for performance impacting abilities. It'll never go away, so wee.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sills View Post
    I really do miss the old talent trees. Not so much at max level but while levelling alts. You used to alternate between getting a new talent point to spend and a new ability to learn/use. It really felt like you were getting rewarded for each level you gained even if that reward is a +1% to crit. Now you can go 4 to 5 levels without getting a single thing to make your character feel more advanced and more powerful. It really has made levelling more of a slog and a grind then it used to.
    I agree that leveling is a fair complaint. Between no talent points and auto-leveling spells, it's not uncommon to level 3-5 times and get absolutely nothing for it other than stat increases and access to different gear. Blizzard admitted that it feels pretty bad at the moment; not sure what the solution should be.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Have we been playing the same game? (and really, forum-stalking me, now?) MoP's talent system was a huge overhaul, and one I fully supported because the choices mattered a lot more than "Here's EJ's latest build. Follow it or suck."

    edit: To elaborate: liking something and recognizing it can be expanded on or use fine-tuning aren't mutually-exclusive concepts. The current system is a good one, but lacks the by-level feel of progression the old one had and could use several extra tiers to give it more presence while leveling 1-90.
    Yes, The current one is convient, because we can change it on the fly. But the old one had as you said, the several extra tiers that made leveling fun.
    I like the new one, just not as much as the old one because when it comes to customs, the old one was better. You chose to EJ it, not everyone did.
    Maybe if they merged the old one, and the new one together it would cater to everyones needs.
    (Points, different trees, but removable on the fly. The new talent tree is lacking passives. Only a few classes have more then 3 passives.)

    And no, I'm not stalking you. I posted first and just compared what you said here to the one before.

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  13. #33
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    Not really, it was frustrating to see I hit a level up just to see i'd gain a base 1% crit or 1% increased mana pool, it wasn't really interesting.

    Although having something rewarded at each level that you got to choose was good

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuneKirby View Post
    I agree that leveling is a fair complaint. Between no talent points and auto-leveling spells, it's not uncommon to level 3-5 times and get absolutely nothing for it other than stat increases and access to different gear. Blizzard admitted that it feels pretty bad at the moment; not sure what the solution should be.

    maybe they should have 2 sets of talents, one you get a point every level, and it has bigger trees like the old ones where you pretty much just have passive talents, or like other games and you get stat points or something, then every 5/10 levels you get a big talent point to use in the current style tree. might work. but i just pulled that out of my ass 30seconds ago.
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  15. #35
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuneKirby View Post
    I agree that leveling is a fair complaint. Between no talent points and auto-leveling spells, it's not uncommon to level 3-5 times and get absolutely nothing for it other than stat increases and access to different gear. Blizzard admitted that it feels pretty bad at the moment; not sure what the solution should be.
    Less focus on leveling, more focus on endgame. Perhaps even do a "level squish" along with an item squish, make Vanilla 1-50, Outland, Northrend, Cataclysm, MOP all 5 levels each. Obviously Outland/Northrend questing would need long-overdue revamps.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by YuneKirby View Post
    I agree that leveling is a fair complaint. Between no talent points and auto-leveling spells, it's not uncommon to level 3-5 times and get absolutely nothing for it other than stat increases and access to different gear. Blizzard admitted that it feels pretty bad at the moment; not sure what the solution should be.
    You can go longer than just 3 - 5 levels of no new abilities, because not every single one is suited to your play-style. So it's varied for each person, but it's certainly true if you decide that you only want to play one specialization, or two. And even if you 'try' and play three while leveling, it sometimes still stagnates and you get nothing new.
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  17. #37
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Creations: I did note back on page 1 that I'd be down for migrating the current system into a new mechanic, keeping the feel of a big jump in power every 15 levels that you get to pick, with the old setup for leveling to provide a feel of slow-but-steady progression (provided it's all passive buffs and the important stuff either remains baked into specs or is otherwise not reliant on you clicking extra crit five times) brought back for leveling purposes. They'd have to be careful with it, however, to prevent the feeling of "Okay, this patch Windwalkers want crit over haste (bullshitted stats for rhetorics' sake), so time to go respec and see what EJ/Arena Junkies/MMO-C suggests" and more "Oh cool, let's see where I want to pump my stats up."

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  18. #38
    Mechagnome Bad Ashe's Avatar
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    i miss my hybrid warlock builds most of all.

  19. #39
    You know, I've been thinking about this over the last few days, and you know what game I think Blizzard could learn a lot from, as far as talents go? Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I've been replaying that game over the last week or so, and it struck me just how like talents Praxis points are. And when you get them, you really have to think - "do I want to have the cloaking device now, and wait on the vision enhancements? Should I get the Typhoon, or is more armor a better choice?" The different augmentations can make a big difference in how your Jensen gets through the game, but it never feels like a bad system, or like some things are just useless.

    That's how I wish WoW's talents would be - instead of just clicking one of three every fifteen levels, you would have to think about what works best and what you really want your character to be like.

    Edit: and to answer the topic of the thread, yes, I do miss the old talent system. Even if it didn't really feel like anything special to get one 1% crit, or whatever, it was nice to level up and know you had another talent point to spend. Now, you level up, and most of the time it feels like "So what? Didn't get anything for it, so what does it matter?"
    Last edited by Prothall; 2013-07-27 at 12:22 AM.
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  20. #40
    I never missed the old System, the new one is IMO superiour but it also has it's flaws for me.
    Place Skill into your actionbar, change the talent and the skill is now unusable.
    Instead of it being replaced by the new skill, there also is no macro condition either to fix this, or is there now? im not playing since 5.2.
    It's also a bit annoying to have 2 Passives and 1 Active skill in a single tree line, instead of either 3 Passive/3 Active
    Last edited by Yuyuli; 2013-07-27 at 12:25 AM.

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