Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #161
    The majority of specs back with the old system were merely cookie cutter specs, you couldn't choose anything else without completely gimping yourself for the most part with most of the classes.

    The current system is great for raiding too, being able to switch out to whatever you need for a specific encounter if fantastic, couldn't ask for a better system at present in my opinion. I do agree with what people are saying about it being shitty for leveling, it doesn't feel like you're actually getting much out of leveling now we don't get talent points every level, which does suck to a degree.

  2. #162
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan (日本東京)
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Couple of things:

    1) Obviously throughput (healing and DPS) talents will usually end up having a mandatory choice. This goes without saying.

    Same goes for the old trees, you can make things as fucking obfuscated as you want, but at the end of the day out of the retarded possible configurations of throughput talents, there will be a correct one. All other configurations are doing it wrong, just it's "cleverly" disguised behind a pile of crap.

    So yes, for paladins, the 90 talents have mandatory choices for fights, the 45 talents for healers have mandatory choices for fights, and the 75 talents have mandatory choices for DPS etc.

    2) CC tiers aren't useful very often in PvE content. Same goes for CC talents, they are simply not taken on the old trees (or grudgingly taken if it is required for a later talent or if there is simply no other option). How's this better or "more interesting" or more of a "choice" than the Tier 2 paladin talents?

    Also remember my hybrid point. Some of the least used talents for Holy (Sanctified Wrath, Selfless Healer, Execution Sentence) are mandatory or near-mandatory or Ret. Sacred Shield is mandatory for Prot. Long Arm of the Law has far more situational use for Ret, Pursuit of Justice has far more situational use for Prot. The "junk" talents (Hand of Purity, etc.) are being fixed for 5.4 and Blizzard is trying to encourage more varied use of all talent rows for everyone by nerfing "overpowered" ones and buffing or even completely reworking the shit ones.

    But still at the end of the day I think we have to accept for hybrid (and even pure) classes, some talents will appeal more to some specs than others, and no amount of changing will fix that without just gutting the talent itself.

    ---

    Simply put anyone who believes the old talent trees had more "options" or "choices" is delusional.
    As I said, at the end of WotLK there were two different viable holy specs for two different types of playstyle. That was a real choice and that was possible due to the way the old talents functioned.

    [edit] Case in point even on a holy paladin (with "required" this or "required" that as you claim) I average spending most of my 20 tomes in a given raid night. In Cataclysm, I'd have respec'ced... zero?... times... and maybe spent 2-3 dust... maybe.
    Same here, but that doesn't mean that there is more choice. That only proves that certain fights 'require' certain talents for optimal use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

  3. #163
    Loved the wrath talent system.
    Vehemently despised the cataclysmic one.

  4. #164
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    As I said, at the end of WotLK there were two different viable holy specs for two different types of playstyle. That was a real choice and that was possible due to the way the old talents functioned.
    Two choices for two playstyles is easily doable in today's spec world. Generally two playstyles which you can choose between can only possibly mean one of two things:

    1) The difference between the two is fairly small. Factors that go into what you use is therefore a) the fight you are on, b) the playstyle you prefer, and c) the bullshit cost to respec. a) and b) are still present and in my opinion are the best ways to decide your talent. c) has been removed by the new system but was in the old one, and IMO does not add anything compelling to talents.

    2) People haven't figured out which one is better.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Two choices for two playstyles is easily doable in today's spec world. Generally two playstyles which you can choose between can only possibly mean one of two things:

    1) The difference between the two is fairly small. Factors that go into what you use is therefore a) the fight you are on, b) the playstyle you prefer, and c) the bullshit cost to respec. a) and b) are still present and in my opinion are the best ways to decide your talent. c) has been removed by the new system but was in the old one, and IMO does not add anything compelling to talents.

    2) People haven't figured out which one is better.

    As I see it, each healing spec has two playstyles... Tank healing and Raid healing... Which ever your playstyle you prefer and enjoy, convince your raid leader to fulfill that roll for logical reason why you think you'd do better at raid healing over tank healing.

  6. #166
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Close to San Fransisco, CA
    Posts
    2,631
    Not really, back in the day, I enjoyed doing things right, so it was pretty boring. New talents are cool, but they do suck for leveling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Sadly, with those actors... the "XXX Adaptation" should really be called 50 shades of watch a different porno.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggars/advanced - Main
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/I.../hero/41277433 -D3 Char, totally not boosted.

  7. #167
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Hotlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,542
    I do in some ways, but I don't in others. I do miss how much control you had to custom-make your toon exactly how you wanted for your playstyle (pre-Cata). If you wanted a really good questing/solo spec, you could do it. If you wanted to experiment with certain talents and set bonuses, etc. you had the freedom to try it out any which way you wanted. Not all were viable, but, it was fun coming up with unique ways to spec your toon.

    What I don't miss are the cookie-cutter Elitist Jerks specs that you were essentially forced to use, lest you were "doing it wrong" and subsequently kicked from every dungeon you entered. Once I tried to spec my sub rogue into extra haste from gear by knocking a point of off Coup de Grace and taking 3/3 Precision so I could get rid of some hit and reforge it to Haste. I got screamed down and flamed and kicked like you wouldn't believe, just for reshuffling one single point of my spec.

    Honestly I don't think it's really changed much now in Mists, there's still talents you basically have t take in order to maximize your character, difference is that you have less options in customizing it for things other than end-game content, which I think reveals the true flaw in Blizzard's plan: They make EVERYTHING about zerging to max-level then doing instances to get gear. Only thing that matters is gear gear gear gear gear raids raids raids gear gear gear...They've replaced the adventure and hugeness of the game with just chasing slightly upgraded gear.

  8. #168
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan (日本東京)
    Posts
    1,128
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Two choices for two playstyles is easily doable in today's spec world. Generally two playstyles which you can choose between can only possibly mean one of two things:

    1) The difference between the two is fairly small. Factors that go into what you use is therefore a) the fight you are on, b) the playstyle you prefer, and c) the bullshit cost to respec. a) and b) are still present and in my opinion are the best ways to decide your talent. c) has been removed by the new system but was in the old one, and IMO does not add anything compelling to talents.

    2) People haven't figured out which one is better.
    Back in WotLK the two Holy Paladin specs where rather different tbh. They used different spells, different stat priorities, had a different playstyle, etc. Aka, they were really different and both viable back in the day.

    Until something like that is done with the current talents, I prefer the style talents we had back in WotLK over what is currently in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

  9. #169
    Stood in the Fire Divine Path's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    379
    I actually prefer the new talent system (and the way we have more spells automatically when choosing your spec), but feel they should expand the number of talents you get. 6 talent choices seems too few. I think 10 or more talents would feel more rewarding. OR they can add another section where you choose passive bonuses every X number of levels.
    "Come, Stormrage, and I will show you what happens to those that betray the lord of the Legion!" — Mannoroth.

  10. #170
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Twitch & Youtube
    Posts
    18,208
    A lot of talents i dont miss. But some that got rolled into specs I do. For instance, I wish ebon plague became a DK takent instead of only for unholy.
    Last edited by Slowpoke is a Gamer; 2013-07-27 at 01:07 PM. Reason: tablet butchered that
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  11. #171
    Yes and no, There were some really useless talents in the talent trees that was just there because they were needed, and my biggest problem with the old tree was the fact that there was not really any choice, if you wanted to do good you needed a specific build or else you could just quit, the new tree gives more options in one way but i dont like that you gain a talent every 15 lvl, it makes leveling feel less rewarding, even tho the old tree was pretty bad at sometimes atleas it felt more rewarding to level up then.

  12. #172
    what the fuck is wrong with people? the new talent system is amazing, you have talents to each situation for pve/pvp/whatever... the old talent were useless as fuck the only funny thing about them was when classes like mage could play fire-frost with funny shit but still useless stuff
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  13. #173
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkosyia View Post
    As I see it, each healing spec has two playstyles... Tank healing and Raid healing... Which ever your playstyle you prefer and enjoy, convince your raid leader to fulfill that roll for logical reason why you think you'd do better at raid healing over tank healing.
    You're out of touch with current content healing then.

  14. #174
    No. And those who do are fooling themselves into believing that that talent system gave them choices in play style. You had 2 choices back then, check your best possible spec online(and even then you only needed to check it when new patches came out) or suck.
    Pokemon Y Friend Code: 4527-7566-5852. PM if you add me.
    Friend Safari: Steel, Metang, Mawile, third unknown.

  15. #175
    Yes I miss it but to be honest it never really lived up to its potential. In TBC the top tier talents became tree defining for the most part so you were locked in to taking a bunch of stuff just because. Rogues probably had the best of it in vanilla with cold blood/backstab crit/prep or 22/8/21 iirc. They picked up a play style defining talent for each tree. I don't really remember any other class that had something so worth it.

  16. #176
    Pit Lord zephid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,440
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Do you miss the old Talent system?

    I've been unsubbed for a while now, but I come back to WoW ever so often when they have a 10-day free trial or play a bit on my free account. I've been playing other games in the mean time, and what I notice in a lot of RPGs and pseudo RPGs is that most have very complex Talent Trees, similar to old WoW or Diablo 2. A lot of it opens up to very complex builds, and it opens up a lot of fun to playing your character very differently from anyone else, especially if you're going for a specific build.

    Wow's current talent system is very streamlined and much easier to handle, but I find it's lost a lot the charm. I remember spending hours reading up on the benefits of each talent and weighing numbers and figuring out if X talent would fit in with my playstyle and then going into the game to test it out.

    What do you guys think?
    No I do not miss the old talent system, and the reason for that is simple. You didn't have more choice with the old system, you actually had less. Yes, there were more talents, but you had to spend almost all of your talent points in "mandatory" talents, unless you wanted to play a gimped spec.

    The fact is that you have more choice now even though there are less talents/points since all of those "mandatory" talents that everyone had to have before is now a part of the spec instead of a talent, which means that you will get those without spending points.

  17. #177
    I am very happy with MoP talents and i look toward them being refined in the next Expansion.

    While leveling is less fun due to talent points being awarded once every 15(?) levels, at maximum level i find the MoP design FAR more fun than the old talents.

    I would also like to point out that blizzard has been saying since WotLK beta ending that they are very unhappy with the "talent tree" design, but were still unsure of how to change them.
    So just you folks know, our dear blizzard has been feeling really negative about the old "Talent Tree" concept ever since WotLK beta was nearing it's end.

    So far blizzard is really happy with the design of MoP talents, and are extremely UNlikely to introduce any big changes.
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  18. #178
    Yes. But not because it was so good, I just really really hate this new one. It is by far the worst "talent" system I've seen in any rpg or mmo - ffs this is WoW and Blizzard... this talent system is like a god awful joke, an embarressment.

    P.S. looking back and seeing countless posts saying the new talent system is amazing. *cries*
    Well at least I understand the sub drop - the semi-retarded community - and the direction the game is taking now.
    Last edited by slime; 2013-07-27 at 01:47 PM.

  19. #179
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,247
    Yes, this system lacks the depth. Also the talent points were something to look forward to, even if putting one into something entirely useless it felt like I was improving my character somehow.
    FC 2793-2016-8218 - Name: Suoma

  20. #180
    defo... I used to love messing with talents just because I could. cata wasn't too bad but now the talent system sucks balls, its far too generic boring as fukk.
    but yea the old 71 point trees were mega fun to play round with. its whats wrong with wow the last 2 years. all dumbed down far too much so even a monkey smoking weed could play it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •