Cataclysm Talent Tree? Nope
The Oldschool Talent Trees: Absolutely.
Cataclysm Talent Tree? Nope
The Oldschool Talent Trees: Absolutely.
At least Hellscream was an Orc.... R.I.P. Horde 1994-2013
World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Because beating the Orcs to a pulp with the villain bat and pissing on the Horde's story wasn't enough, so we decided to hit them in the past too!
Nope. I don't miss it. People back then didn't know how to spec properly and hell, even now with just 6 talents people STILL don't know how spec properly.
In the company of thieves, liars, beggars and whores
I'll lay waiting, just waiting for my time to come.
I miss spending a point every level.
I do not miss how bad the old system was in other ways. +2% damage on X spell, fill all these to reach that.
Or like in Cataclysm, fill these no-brain talents then you might end up with 2 or 3 points left to spend on whatever tier 1 talent you want.
People talking about the old systems "depth" and "options" doesn't seem to have given it much thought at all.
At max level the new system is way superior, but while leveling it is not. That's the one strength of the old system, you got one, perhaps tiny barely significant upgrade every time you leveled up, but it was YOU who chose it.
Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-07-27 at 01:57 PM.
5:2 diet? Pft!
Weight lost since 21st of June: ~44kg/~97lb
Hell, it's about time.
Seriously, actually look back on these. They're not exciting or interesting at all. 90% of the fire tree is just % procs for other spells.
I don't miss them at all. I hated having to invest talent points after hard leveling in +1% something. It felt like very, very slow gradual progression.
Oh boy, now I have a 2% chance on my fireball casts to stun them, just 4 more talent points for it to be useful! Finally, I hit level 40; now I can use Ice Block. Amazing. Anyone remember arcane armor? Increases armour by 50% / 100% of your intellect or something like that? I literally remember laughing at my friend once because he actually invested talent points in that.
There was a best spec for PvP and PvE for every class. Certain talents were absolutely necessary. Others were pretty pointless. It didn't offer the complex builds people seem to remember them for. The only thing complex about them was that there was so much room to go wrong. That's a good thing - if you're doing a raid encounter or high end pvp. But we're only talking about sorting out talents, something anyone ought to be able to do without having to worry about being laughed at for speccing into sword, dagger and mace specializations. Building a talent tree that doesn't suck shouldn't be end-game content where you have to look up a strategy guide on the internet, e.g EJ.
Nowadays when you go up against someone in PvP you have far less idea of what talents they might be using, which makes it a little more exciting than knowing every class / spec is going to be using the same abilities as was the case back with the old talent system - and some talents are better for some encounters than others in PvE. It's far easier to swap talents in and out depending on the situation.
The only thing bad about it really is that you only get one every 15 levels, so whilst leveling it can drag on for a while before it feels like you earn anything new and exciting to use. However, it's not like it takes ages to hit level cap anymore. You can get to 90 in a few days of leveling now.
I recall my Enhancement and Elemental shaman PvE specs not changing a single talent point for an entire expansion - i had the "cookie cutter" build, the non-picked talents were awful, and as soon as my Shaman got max level i completely FORGOT talents existed.
It mostly depends on the class you played, but for a lot of PvE specs there was pretty much only ONE "correct" talent build that lasted the majority of the expansion - which made talents at max level literally non existent for a lot of players
Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.
When I started playing, I remember going through the talent trees of every class to see what stuff they had, and it was really fun. I thought about my first class for a while before finally being able to make a decision.
I also miss hybrid specs, these were REALLY fun. They weren't viable at all, but still, I liked how you could mix stuff from two trees and play with it.
I sure miss my permanent ghoul while playing blood.
I do miss the old talent system...mostly because the new system SUCKS. they wanted to make it so people would customize their characters and instead they just created a tedious system where you respec to a new cookie cutter build on every single fight. everybody still uses the exact same specs.
Yeah sometimes... The old talent system was just much better to level with. Otherwise I rarely think about it.
How are they removed from the game now? If you ignore yoru talents now for different situations you are hobbling your raid/pvp group by not adapting.
Last edited by Tenjen; 2013-07-27 at 02:24 PM.
even though certain hybrid speccs were beyond stupidly overpowered, i liked it better then current ones.
pvp: specc SL/SL = win
pve: get hit cap, spec 0/21/40, make "mage tears fuel me" macro = win and lol
Yes, the hybrids between specs were an interesting concept, while new talents feel like meaningless perks, more suited for a Call of Duty game, not for the progress of your RPG character.
In the old talent system I had max level characters that I never respecced on. Ever. Now at least there is some motivation to change things up every once in a while. Like mentioned before though, spending a point every level, even if it was the same thing 5 levels in a row, felt better.
I like the idea of the new talent system, but the talents are mostly nowhere near as fun or distinct as they could be. I mean a tier with 3 ways to improve charge? really? talents could have a much bigger impact. THey should give you a choices that dramatically change abilities in your toolset to be absolutely awesome. That charge tier should have a talent that adds damage to charge, stuns the targets and knocks back any enemy on your way to the target and deals damage to them too. The other two talents should have an equally significant buff to other abilities. So many tiers lack awesomeness right now...
I don't think this matters nearly as much as you think it does.
I agree with many sentiments that the old talent system was very much full of bloat. It's pretty much a fact that no one is really that enticed by a 1% boost to the crit chance of a specific spell, or reducing it's cooldown by .5%. I think what I take from the talent system is the spirit of customization and hybridization that no longer exists in WoW. The old system very much needed to be reworked, but I think it could still exist with some major modifications while removing the 'bloat' of stat boosters.
I've been playing games recently like Guild Wars 2, Torchlight 2 and Borderlands 2, and the Talent/Skill systems they have are really interesting. They're focused on enhancing spells to open new types of gameplay rather than boosting stats, and that's what I think the WoW talents needed to be more like. They could have reduced the whole Talent Tree, cut out all stat modifiers and kept in everything that changed spells/effects to create a wider variety of gameplay and combinations.
While it's arguable that people will gravitate to ideal builds and never change, it's inevitable in any game. What the old Talent system offers is opening up different styles of gameplay within your spec. A part of the reason is the hybridization you had with the other specs. We simply don't have this any more, and while it's much easier for Blizzard to define Spec-based gameplay and balance, it's lost a lot of it's 'Hey check out my build' charm. I think that's what I miss a lot from WoW, especially after playing many other games that have since built off their own system.
Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-07-27 at 08:25 PM.