1. #1

    PvP is too hard?

    I remember the time when I was trying to reach 1.850 rating to get t1 weapons, also remember the time when I was struggling to get 2.2k, those were the times when , at least for me, the rating mattered. Then blizzard decided the game is too hard for average player and started simplifying it to the point it become so easy and so forgiving that anyone can play it. In my opinion ,if you take away the possibility to distinguish yourself from others by being better player than them, than what is the point of competing? You can introduce as many mounts and achievements you want, if you don't make them hard to get , they will NEVER be unique (if majority of players can obtain them that is). Thats why I think there were more people playing this game both pve and pvp-wise when it was hard to get certain rating or PVE content done, they were whining on forums sure, but they didn't quit playing because they all wanted the same thing "to be that guy". This is in the past now, and anyone can get gladiator now with a FOTM comp, bug(that takes 1 month for blizzard to fix),DDOS, win-trading or whatever. And its because of this lack of "uniqueness" that I think people quit the game once they reach their goal.

    The only thing keeping PvP alive in this game is Oil Money and for PvE well those people are also gonna leave sooner or later, just a matter of time for this game with no future and no Esport support what so ever to die. (1 tr and 1 tourney a year is by far not enough to keep a scene alive)

  2. #2
    PvP is pretty dead, and anything that can be achieved in pvp that matters is a team effort anyways. Probably not the kind of pvp people are searching for anyways. I am used to play pvp in couple of other games online on 1vs1 basis or FFA.
    I only have the option of team play in wow.
    It gets boring vey quickly, especially if your prefered mate quits wow and the next one too, cause this game is too old and ther are other options to play out there also lack of innovations after BC. The Arena was a big improvement, but after it, i saw no new pvp concepts - FFA could have been interesting with so many players in game. But this game is just a job and farm game like all those browers game out there, just that you pay for it and its stealing more time, too.

    Most pvp games played online do feel very differently, in a pleasant way.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    pvp hard?

    is this a joke

    edit: it's impossible to say that PVP is hard, because no matter what happens, a player will be the winner - unlike pve, where if you wipe, the computer wins. it's sure easier to win nowadays, with every class having the capability of killing someone in less than 3 seconds, then you couple that with yet another dps, then add in weak healers (mw monks / hpalas), and youve suddenly gotten 2200 rating in 3 days.
    Last edited by Malgru; 2013-07-27 at 01:51 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    then add in weak healers (mw monks / hpalas), and youve suddenly gotten 2200 rating in 3 days.
    MW monks aren't weak in pvp...JS

  5. #5
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    This is in the past now, and anyone can get gladiator now with a FOTM comp
    You just repeat that to yourself and it might be true.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    PvP is pretty dead, and anything that can be achieved in pvp that matters is a team effort anyways. Probably not the kind of pvp people are searching for anyways. I am used to play pvp in couple of other games online on 1vs1 basis or FFA.
    I only have the option of team play in wow.
    It gets boring vey quickly, especially if your prefered mate quits wow and the next one too, cause this game is too old and ther are other options to play out there also lack of innovations after BC. The Arena was a big improvement, but after it, i saw no new pvp concepts - FFA could have been interesting with so many players in game. But this game is just a job and farm game like all those browers game out there, just that you pay for it and its stealing more time, too.

    Most pvp games played online do feel very differently, in a pleasant way.
    The kind of pvp people are not searching for? People want to pvp alone? The game was never designed around 1v1 pvp and niether should it be.

    pvp is far from dead. and the very point, best parts and most enjoyment attained from pvp, comes from working in a team dynamicly.

    seems your applying your feelings to the "people"

    Pvp being called "hard" implies that the other person is making it hard for you by being better through gear, skill or numbers. Thus one must counter with gear, skill and numebrs of one's own.

  7. #7
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    How can you call something you don't control, "too hard"?

    PvP, you fight other people.. The only hard thing is, you do less dmg.. and some jump around like headless chicken.
    The current PvP is ment for team work as well. Blizzard stated once, that you're not supposed to kill a healer alone unless geared more/better skills - so find a friend and work together. Love that team work is actually needed in what is basicly already a war.

    And PvP dead? Well.. that's a big no. Else I wonder why I always cap my conquest, or why I always find random BG's.

    There's one problem with PvP though, that Blizzard haven't fixed all the cross over functions. Heroic ToT armor bonus can still be horrible to meet.
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  8. #8
    PVP in WoW is blighted by win-traders, hackers and botters. Maybe it's the same for every game out there.
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  9. #9
    PvP can't be hard.
    You compete with other players, what's difficult for you is equally difficult for them.

    You can't make pvp "easier". You can simplify it to the ground, but it will not change anything, bad players will keep sitting on 1500, good players will get their 2k+.

  10. #10
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoddie View Post
    PVP in WoW is blighted by win-traders, hackers and botters. Maybe it's the same for every game out there.
    Haven't seen any botters in a long while. And win-traders.. well, people just don't know how to play. And hackers?.. uhm.. not sure, not seen those since.. forever.. except for the now and then duping, which goes under as hacking/exploiting.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Haven't seen any botters in a long while. And win-traders.. well, people just don't know how to play. And hackers?.. uhm.. not sure, not seen those since.. forever.. except for the now and then duping, which goes under as hacking/exploiting.
    After we had destroyed the horde's titan gate in minutes one of them flew in a demolisher from the beach to the titan gate in the second round, November 2012. So hackers are still there :d
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    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  12. #12
    The Patient Drefan's Avatar
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    PvP has never been balanced but Blizzard are trying harder these days than they did back in TBC, however TBC is still my favorite time period for Arenas. I think the main issue with Arena today is that everyone can basically do everything. There is less "uniqueness" and that has made me enjoy PvP a lot less and the only reason I would do PvP today is to gear my newly dinged char for LFR.

    To get gladiator is never an easy task, you still need to be top 0.5% in 3v3 and if you can do so with a FOTM comp well gratz to you but for everyone else it's a lot harder and there has always been a FOTM comp regardless of expansion.

    I'm not a 100% sure about how the rating system works nowdays but back then if you lost to a team with lower rating you could lose up to 31 arena ratings and that could take hours to get back again if there were no other teams on your rating playing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    There's one problem with PvP though, that Blizzard haven't fixed all the cross over functions. Heroic ToT armor bonus can still be horrible to meet.
    Restokin + Rogue in S4 with Glaives + 4set T6 was never fun :P
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Haven't seen any botters in a long while. And win-traders.. well, people just don't know how to play. And hackers?.. uhm.. not sure, not seen those since.. forever.. except for the now and then duping, which goes under as hacking/exploiting.
    Any early morning random battleground = full of hackers. If you're (un)lucky enough to get Temple you can be one of only 2-3 people not to be a bot. It's so obvious it's crazy. Bot profiles are getting better but that just means they're harder to notice. When people resort to using OpenRaid and oQueue to enjoy a bot-free environment, you know something's majorly wrong with the game. And yeah, hackers, while not common they're certainly more common than they should be. Capping flags in AV, AB and IoC either before the gates open or immediately afterwards is something that happens at least once a week. And win-traders, it definitely happens.
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  14. #14
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoddie View Post
    Any early morning random battleground = full of hackers. If you're (un)lucky enough to get Temple you can be one of only 2-3 people not to be a bot. It's so obvious it's crazy. Bot profiles are getting better but that just means they're harder to notice. When people resort to using OpenRaid and oQueue to enjoy a bot-free environment, you know something's majorly wrong with the game. And yeah, hackers, while not common they're certainly more common than they should be. Capping flags in AV, AB and IoC either before the gates open or immediately afterwards is something that happens at least once a week. And win-traders, it definitely happens.
    Well, I will consider myself lucky to never have troubles with bots on my team. And if we do, well, we're normally 3+ people and that is still enough to win. And Hackers, well, I hear people talk about it.. but the only "hack" I have ever seen (except duping) is the ones that screw their connection on purpose. You know, the person you can't hit because everything it screwed with him, so he's either 5 yards behind or infront of the actual toon image we see. Those are my main problems.

    And win-traders. Well, sadly it's again, people. Everything is people, from people that are too whiny, slow, lazy or not that bright. I love when Blizzard does a Win-trade clean up now and then, though not as often anymore. But win-traders should just instantly get a 7 day lockout, and then a perma ban if once more.

    But in the end, PvP itself, isn't hard. It's just the people doing what humans do, cheat and lie in hope for getting a headstart.
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  15. #15
    What's "hard" in PvP? As I read it it's supposed to mean that people are not really playing fair as soon as stuff turns "rated". Honestly, I've never really seen the pitiful attempt at esports that Blizzard made with arena and rated BGs as something that I desire to do in WoW. There are so many other games that do it worlds better while Blizzard can't even admit how clueless they really are about the whole balancing stuff between PvE and PvP, and the problems with players exploiting system mechanics.

    However, with the current system I've come to like PvP a bit more again than during Cata. As long as you're not seeking a competitive challenge (which you won't get in this game even if it exists for a million more years BTW) you sure can have a hell lot of fun in random mayhem BGs. Just turn off the instance chat, go with a few friends if you can and go beat someone up. For a mini-game, which PvP definitely is in WoW, this is a nice little change from the majority of purely PvE driven activities.
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  16. #16
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    As others said pvp cant be hard or easy. It can be balanced though.

  17. #17
    There's always been fotm comps and I don't see how it can be any easier than it's ever been... If that's the case then it's the same for everybody and therefore it's just as easy for them to kill you and win yet only 1 team can win in a 2 team race (unless it's a draw which almost never happens).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    The kind of pvp people are not searching for? People want to pvp alone? The game was never designed around 1v1 pvp and niether should it be.

    pvp is far from dead. and the very point, best parts and most enjoyment attained from pvp, comes from working in a team dynamicly.

    seems your applying your feelings to the "people"

    Pvp being called "hard" implies that the other person is making it hard for you by being better through gear, skill or numbers. Thus one must counter with gear, skill and numebrs of one's own.
    No where was my post focused on 1vs1, when i said FFA is popular. But balanced duels are a indicator for a well designed and working pvp game. Duels are used for serious tourneys for example and completely depent on your skill, there are no excuses and this is what people can enjoy and work on, without beeing in fear, that their long seasioned buddies quit this game for good.

    Said this, FFA is still on top. Wow just got 1/3 of all availible pvp standards, thus its not a good pvp game. Every serious pvp player will tell you that. But of course if you never play other games besides of wow in online competition and try tourneys it can't be helped.

    Treating pvp players as 2nd class players compared to PvE players doesn't help either. There is certainly a reasion all too obvious, why TBC was on its peak and other expansions not. The Arena was brand new, and it was good. But after the Arena, nothing else happened when it comes to pvp. Siege Machines? rbgs? still no open pvp? new and unpopular bg maps? i do not see why wasting time here.


    PvP furthermore was never as dead as in mop, i played on 3 crowded pvp server that got the most pvp acitivity in arenas and rbgs with the most pvp guilds, never did i met so many people that were bored at pvp and quitted or switched to pve for good.

    Most of my pvp buddies have quitted wow, cause it wasn't a good pvp game for them. After a while i did it too. As i can't be arsed for ever. played other pvp games online again and can only agree with them i finally enjoy real pvp now instead of a downplayed fraction of it, as wow suggests.

    The recent changes reflect this, too. wow pvp never was more boring, the peak of boredoom is finally reached. I play pvp exclusviley since TBC, i had a blast i saw many imbalances, but mop was the most imbalanced and in addtion boring farm pvp fest i ever witnessed. And never i see new pvp concepts introduced just more lame bg maps that i don't care about.

    so yeah, pvp is hard to play and enjoy, in the way, that just a little tiny fraction of wow players care even slightly about it, in comparassion to pve.

    Mop that claimed to bring back open pvp and utterly failed here, was the coup de grâce to this game. The subscripe losses are just the beginning, and i bet most of those losses were pvp players, evidence was provided enough when you see your pvp related buddies quitted all in mop or by the end of cata, and never returned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Haven't seen any botters in a long while. And win-traders.. well, people just don't know how to play. And hackers?.. uhm.. not sure, not seen those since.. forever.. except for the now and then duping, which goes under as hacking/exploiting.
    the game is crowded by botters and win traders. The botters in unrated bgs and win traders in rbg. Played on 3 full crowed pvp servers with tons of pvp guilds an it was in mop when i was asked to take part in win trading, but refused for countless times. I never met so many win trades as in mop, honestly.

    But thats not the real reasion why wow is a most horrible pvp game, the pvp just sucks and is boring without any motivation and concepts to enjoy, period. If you are a newbie you might enjoy it...but after 7+ years i can't be arsed.

    Too many good games out there that have all the pvp i like and i am interested in.

    Jus cause the majority of pvp participants are used to log in each week to cap their conquer points on their alts, doesn't mean pvp is well and alive.

    If blizzard finally decides to slowly balance pvp out, thats good for them, but hardly a priority in a rpg based bame that is unbalanced by nature.
    They need to be more creative when it comes to different pvp mechanics and give the fun and enjoyment back it probably once had, too. We don't even got the random arena back to practice and enojy quick arena fights. Its hard to enjoy pvp right now, considering most pvp guilds only care about rbgs with mediocre success and zero enjoyment.

    So yeah, PvP is way too hard - to enjoy and prioritize over other pvp games and pve.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-07-27 at 06:31 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    pvp hard?

    is this a joke

    edit: it's impossible to say that PVP is hard, because no matter what happens, a player will be the winner - unlike pve, where if you wipe, the computer wins. it's sure easier to win nowadays, with every class having the capability of killing someone in less than 3 seconds, then you couple that with yet another dps, then add in weak healers (mw monks / hpalas), and youve suddenly gotten 2200 rating in 3 days.
    Hahaha how bad are you.
    I know i shouldnt bother replying, but i cant resist...

    Lets think what can be the hardest (mind the words i picked here --> 'can be', i'm using those words because
    lets keep it real, in pve you can do very simple things, in pvp you can face very bad players.... no need to compare that).

    On one hand we have PVE, player versus computers, a computer that does X at time Y in every single encounter,
    every time the same, you just need to have enough braincells to read what he will do when and adjust yourself.
    You just have to do the simplest encounters for gear, do some harder for more gear, etc etc until the content is completed.

    On the other hand we have PVP, player versus another player, meaning that your opponents actions are waaaayyy more random
    thus making it harder for you to react accordingly and making the skill cap alot (ALOT) higher.
    Also imo in pvp you can hardly perform on a decent level with just having a full understanding of your own class (like you can do in pve).
    If you want to play 2.2-2.4+ then you will find nobody who doesnt know almost every spell in the game, those top pvp'ers know every class/spec in the game
    and how it is played, what its strengths are and its weaknesses.
    Besides that they also have knowledge of comps/setups, strategies and teamplay, how certain comps play together and what their weaknesses/strengths are.
    All of this piled together is what makes top level pvp alot more complicated and insanely higher skill capped then pve can ever be.

    Im not saying that pvp cant be retarded, yes it can, if blizz decides to release an expansion with 2 classes being able to 1shot everythng
    (yes BMhunters and warrios im talking to you ) than it will be indeed stupid to play against that.
    But pve has exactly the same problem, if an expansion/patch is released where your class/spec always does shtloads less dmg then another class
    just because blizz released an imbalance than thats just the way it is. That doesnt depend on pve versus pvp but on bad devellopment.

    As a final note I would just like to note that you are not fooling anybody.
    You are obviously a pve hero thats getting stomped in pvp because he's bad,
    you dont want to realise this so you just tell yourself pvp is retarded and that its
    always 'the other class' thats 10x stronger by default.
    Then you go to the pvp forum to tells us how any random noob can get 2200 rating when you obviously cant hit 1750.

  20. #20
    quality thread boys.
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