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  1. #1

    Does anybody else feel like me about council of elders?

    Hi

    Currently we are progressing on heroic council and just don't like this boss. This is again one of those bosses which feels like you have to play them how they never have been intended. I had this feeling already on normal mode where you had to kill Sul before he empowers. Imho this is just a workarround over the fact that his empowered phase is just pretty much overtuned.
    Same goes for the heroic version. All these things that seem to be explo*ts on how to beat this boss. I mean seriously this can't be intended. And these things make the fight A LOT easier. Something like that gets me upset, because it makes encounters very clunky and class dependent.

    Does anybody else feel the same way?

    Best,
    Reflection

  2. #2
    If Blizzard didn't want this to be intended they could just simply have implemented a resurrection timer on the bosses à la The Conclave of Wind. (or the Fallen Protectors in SoO for that matter) Seeing as how that's not the case, however, it can easily be inferred that killing off a council member before they're empowered is intended.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
    WCL

  3. #3
    I dont understand what you mean by having to exploit to beat it?
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  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Of-the-horde's Avatar
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    People exploited ra-den and nobody cared

  5. #5
    the intention of this fight where either switch too the next empowered boss every 25% of one of their lifes. and taking them down like that.

    or focus one down over the others, making use of the time you left over from a boss ramping up too 100 power (a guild might need the time in which a boss gains 50 power too lower its HP by 25%, allowing them too have the time it takes too gather 50 power to be spent in a prefered location).

    the 2nd tactic is prefered since Sul has the strongest of all 4 empowerments, he isn't overtuned like you said. but he was intended to be the hardest of the 4.
    so that's why pretty much every guild chooses too get rid of him first. the way of the least resistance.

  6. #6
    People will always choose the easiest strat and on a council fight, that means removing the most annoying member. Sul's sandstorm isn't overpowered or anything, many guilds killed it empowering sul second, early in the tier. Like someone said above, if it wasn't intended they would 4x the current health pool and make them share health.

    I'm curious to think about how this is an exploit considering its a council fight and how this fight means you need to class stack.

  7. #7
    Warchief
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    I actually enjoyed council, both as a fight and under progression

    Much more enjoyable then primo or durumu imo

  8. #8
    Haven't tried him on HC, but on normal the first times we just followed the tacts you say is the right. Killing 25% of, and killing healing pet, me aggroing the sandstorm, killing them.
    Sandstorm is stronger than the others, but didn't feel that bad. People just needed to aoe them fast down.

    Didn't feel like bruteforcing to me. If they really didn't intend people to kill him before sandstorm they could just have opped the health.
    Everyone has so much to say
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Haven't tried him on HC, but on normal the first times we just followed the tacts you say is the right. Killing 25% of, and killing healing pet, me aggroing the sandstorm, killing them.
    Sandstorm is stronger than the others, but didn't feel that bad. People just needed to aoe them fast down.

    Didn't feel like bruteforcing to me. If they really didn't intend people to kill him before sandstorm they could just have opped the health.
    It's not so much that Sandstorm's damage on heroic mode is insurmountable but rather handling the subsequent adds is what adds complexity to letting him empower.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
    WCL

  10. #10
    Heroic council actually clearly encourages breaking empowers as late as possible, and damaging the other bosses as much as possible. This is because of the stacking debuff mechanic. Less empowers = less debuffs going out.

    Preventing a boss from empowering at all seems intended to me.

  11. #11
    It also seems intended to break sul first because the sand puddles don't go away, and you would have a crazy amount by end of fight to deal with.

  12. #12
    What I do mean by exploits is all that "oh I can cheese the frostbite mechanic by smoke bomb" or "oh I just have one add instead of two on the priestess if there is only a mage far away and he pulls Ice Block". I mean really.... this can't be intended and it makes the fight a LOT harder if you don't have any of these.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    I actually enjoyed council, both as a fight and under progression

    Much more enjoyable then primo or durumu imo
    Durumu is one of the best fights in ToT (heroic that is). His enrage timer was actually something to worry about (well, when gear was lower than what it is now).

  14. #14
    Keep in mind, between thunderforged stuff, heroic upgrades, and the cloak, it felt like blizz at some point was helping guilds by "overgearing" them for the fight. I know when VP upgrades came out that first week, man it made A LOT of stuff easier.

  15. #15
    Its not exploits, Its strategy.

    You're more than welcome to not burst Sul down, but then you have to avoid quicksand longer along with his empower - which is the worst of the 4 so why wouldn't you kill him 1st?

    We negate the 1st Frostbite via smoke bomb and I don't feel it as an exploit - It sounds like you are without a rogue so you're upset. Do you have a Mage? Rdruid/Mage? Holy paladin? (Ive read a normal BoP on someone from any paladin will negate frostbite as well, BUT I have not personally tested this and you only have a 1.5 sec window to see if it works) all of those classes can negate the Frostbite as well. Its not that hard of a mechanic with them going out 100% of the time as well, just have to have group coordination and have 2 or 3 groups. You can also solo heal the person who gets Frostbite If you rotate CDs accordingly along with his or hers personals.

    Twisted Fate adds are easily killable, especially when you can stun them - We always get two and rather save an Iceblock to negate a frostbite if RNG is in our favor.

    Im not saying Its an easy fight by any means, but out of the 10 heroic bosses weve killed it requires the most group coordination.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Weightlifter's Avatar
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    I think nuking Sul was intended. DPSing only the black one would have been far too simple. Having to kill Sul before he empowers adds some depth to the fight because now you have to divide DPS.

  17. #17
    Pit Lord Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    What I do mean by exploits is all that "oh I can cheese the frostbite mechanic by smoke bomb" or "oh I just have one add instead of two on the priestess if there is only a mage far away and he pulls Ice Block". I mean really.... this can't be intended and it makes the fight a LOT harder if you don't have any of these.
    Yeah sure the way guilds handle frostbite even when you don't have an immunity for it is cheesy, but blizzard did make it quite the annoying ability and they probably intended for people to find creative ways of handling it.

    As for Twisted fate, why bother not spawning one of the adds? Twisted fate has got to be the least punishing mechanic added in heroic.

  18. #18
    Fights where I can dot everything that has a heartbeat, and do crazy damage while dodging mechanics? yay!

    A toss up between dark animus and council for which is my favourite, they are both pretty awesome like this

  19. #19
    For me council is the most complex fight in this tier. Even Lei Shen H has less complicated mechanics.

  20. #20
    Okay then it's just my feelings. And yes we killed it yesterday. And yes we had a rogue, two paladins and a mage being myself :P And yes you are completely right that it is one of the most complex fights. We are at 7/13HC now and I think that the next bosses won't be that complex. Council just has a ton of abilities most of them thrown out at the same time.

    P.S.: Yay three sentences starting with "And yes"

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