We also don't know what 'most' means (in 'most sub losses from Asia'), it could be 40% in Asia, 30% in Eu, 30% in NA for all we know.
We also don't know what 'most' means (in 'most sub losses from Asia'), it could be 40% in Asia, 30% in Eu, 30% in NA for all we know.
Let's talk realistic: The next gen MMOs Blizzard will have to compete with using yet another fluffy filler expansion similar to Cataclysm and MoP: XIV Realm Reborn-Final Fantasy, Wildstar, Elder Scrolls Online, Firefall. Final Fantasy releases next month (I doubt patch 5.4 will keep millions of players from trying XIV, with the reputation of MoP so far) so Blizzard is getting assaulted almost immediately and it doesn't relent until the last one (ESO) releases around November. If this was still Wotlk I wouldn't be talking, but lets face it Cata and MoP are terrible because someone is making terrible decisions in there, and for all we know they're still there. These aren't even close to a WoW clone, Blizzard is going to have to perform miracles to keep anyone from North America playing and they have to do it in the next few months or it's over. The casuals leave for better games in times of complete boredom like this, and everyone else notices the ghost towns and then they leave as well, it's a chain reaction.
It's easy to fantasize how a Burning Legion expansion might be fun, but realize who is working on it. It definitely won't be the same developers that made Wotlk and BC. It'll the be developers that made Cata and MoP. Hows that taste? Just being realistic. Do you guys really think these devs will release new character models? I don't, I think when they say it's an ongoing project they're talking about junk models they had to make for key lore characters like Thrall, Jaina, Garrosh, Sylvanas. Will we see those models implemented for players? Hell no. Even if they did that's still not enough fluff to keep a million players interested in the game. Watch em put character models on the Blizzard Store anyways, calling it now. Players will definitely assume the worst if they release an expansion called The South Seas because of the impression Pandaria has made already (Walt Disney? Children?).
I'm just not seeing anything that will redeem the game at this point. WoW's at half mast literally compared to Wotlk. Half of the players gone. It's the lowest it's been since BC and that's a pretty big deal considering that was five years ago. You can't just "wait it out" to see if it will recover from damage like this, you plan to wait five years to see if Blizzard will make the game better? Didn't think so. Burning Legion or Emerald Dream would be interesting and grab subscribers temporarily, but to compete with all the new WoW Killers they will have to revolutionize the game and add new features to the MMO genre within 4-5 months. They can't continue what they're doing by adding more fluff and filler, and letting these new generation MMOs suck the life out of them. Wildstar already admitted they are aiming their content towards jaded WoW players because that's the largest player base - the people that quit playing. XIV is so advanced it looks like a movie. ESO is filling the dungeons and dragons gap that WoW refuses to fulfill for players since Wotlk.
The Vanilla model revamp will handle the sub losses.
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It's not a lie as much as a misdirection. Runemasters and Necros were incorporated into the DK class. However, The DK class was always planned to be a WoW class.
Just like Monks were, because there was always going to be a Pandaren expansion.
Yes Teriz, I didn't add a class. I doubt Blizz, even if they did well on the Monk, would want to risk going from one brand new class into another. They'll have a class-less expansion just to smooth any late-appearing issues with the Monk. They'd then add Demon Hunter in Expansion VI.
Or we have Gunmen who uses rifles and grenades. Who else can do that?
Or we could give Tinkers some nifty class abilities...Teleport for example. Shrink rays. Remote control and forcefields. Sound familiar.
Everyone ingame has access to the tech theme.
See, this is what I call nitpciking. You are looking for and magnifying even slight differences in order to make the overlap appear less than it is.Yeah, Shaman and Mages share thematically similar spells (though lava is different from fire)
The overlap exists. Different classes can have similar spells and stll have a different feel and theme. You don't even want to consider how a Dragonsworn class can be implemented in game purely because you don't want to give up the argument "Tinkers are inevitable".
They aren't. They may very well be the next class, but inevitable they ain't.
I believe they had more and those were the three that eventually ended uo being fleshed out to one degree or another.LoL! you actually believe that story? You really believe that Blizzard had three classes on the table,
As it is, it was mentioned by Blizzard in an interview.
As it is, the supposition that they developed only one idea for the class and that it staretd with Dk and ended with Dk is - to put it mildly - ludicrous. They develop various ideas and concepts and take forward the one one that fits best and shows most potential.
Blizzard have confirmed they have worked on the Ogre and Naga as player races, for example. We don't see them in game.
At least - not yet.
They did what they did with DKs...they rolled several class concepts into one. Some of those concepts had no presence in WC3 and some did.Monks are based off of the Pandaren Brewmaster WC3 hero. That's pretty obvious to everyone.
Gear choice and looting tables can be worked around as an issue should it be necessary. There aren't really any strong archetypes left for mail. Not even tinkers.Coincidence? Not likely.
People like to talk about a class-less expansion. What about a raceless expansion?
In all seriousness, your argument is just silly.
I believe the problem is that only one class can use rifles or guns. And Hunters can use grenades? Since when?Or we have Gunmen who uses rifles and grenades. Who else can do that?
Teleports and shields are available to numerous classes. I don't see how that is a valid argument. Monks, Shaman, and Warlocks have teleports and force fields. Are they stealing the thunder from the Engineering profession?Or we could give Tinkers some nifty class abilities...Teleport for example. Shrink rays. Remote control and forcefields. Sound familiar.
Just like everyone has access to the magic theme via enchanting. We still have a Mage class. Everyone has access to healing via first aid. We still have a priest class. Etc.Everyone ingame has access to the tech theme.
So you wish to increase this overlap by implementing a class that has another fire-magic spec? Okay.See, this is what I call nitpciking. You are looking for and magnifying even slight differences in order to make the overlap appear less than it is.
I'm pretty sure I pointed out (in great detail) why Dragonsworn wouldn't work. It has little to do with my position on the Tinker class.The overlap exists. Different classes can have similar spells and stll have a different feel and theme. You don't even want to consider how a Dragonsworn class can be implemented in game purely because you don't want to give up the argument "Tinkers are inevitable".
So you honestly believe that a Runemaster concept and a Necromancer concept had equal potential with a Death Knight concept in a game that was designed AFTER Warcraft 3, which had a main antagonist that was a Death Knight, and had one of the other character class' core concepts already wrapped up in its ability set?As it is, the supposition that they developed only one idea for the class and that it staretd with Dk and ended with Dk is - to put it mildly - ludicrous. They develop various ideas and concepts and take forward the one one that fits best and shows most potential.
Now that is ludicrous.
Now who's nitpicking?They did what they did with DKs...they rolled several class concepts into one. Some of those concepts had no presence in WC3 and some did.
Yes or No; Is Monk class is based on the Brewmaster hero from WC3?
Technology-based classes tend to have moderate to high armor types. Even the Tinker hero from WC3 had fairly high armor. If Shaman can wear mail, I'm not seeing how a Tinker class could not.Gear choice and looting tables can be worked around as an issue should it be necessary. There aren't really any strong archetypes left for mail. Not even tinkers.
Also its more than just the loot tables. It's the class connections to WC3, the thematics, the missing full hybrid class, the rise of technology within WoW's narrative, the decline of DPS abilities in the engineering profession, and other stuff.
In short, if you can find another class concept that had a corresponding WC3 hero, can wear mail armor, can use ranged weapons, can heal/tank/DPS, can be played by all or most races, is unlike any other class currently in the game, and has no WC3 abilities that would overlap with any of the existing classes, I'm all ears.
Last edited by Teriz; 2013-07-28 at 09:49 PM.
Hell, Dragonsworn would be amazing, but it would only be doable with an Emerald Dream/Caverns of time expansion, imo.
Moreover, it would actually have fit better with Cataclysm.
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Following Blizzards race/class/race... trend, we'd be looking to see a new race for the next one (ogres and highelves, or whatever) then a new class (demon hunter) released appropriately when we invade them.
Now, Here's how I would handle the next expansion if I were in charge of the whole thing. I don't raid, so you'll have to forgive me for not going into all the detail of the raids.
Expansion title: Roangut's High seas adventure!
Location: Southern Seas
Enemies: Pirates, Naga, Kraken, etc.
First off: New features
-- New Professions - Woodworker and Lumberjack (there's no shortage of wood varieties they could have for each tier)
Lumberjack would just be a gathering profession. If they have any axe equipped they can chop down trees, or just by having an axe in your inventory. They gather lumber which is used by Woodworkers primarily. Woodworkers could make Staves, Bows, Storage boxes (huge slotted 'bag' but only usable in bank), and other general wood based items. Woodworkers would also make ship parts, as well as furniture for player housing (see bellow)
-- New Mount Skill - Sailing/navigation
Each rank would unlock more features in the ocean content. First rank would be granted by completing a quest (tutorial of sorts). One rank would let you join a crew, another would let you start a crew, the next would let you captain a ship, maybe then you can join your ships into a fleet, and So on.
-- New Feature - Ships
Players can buy/build their own ships to sail on open waters. a Woodworker/tailor are all that's needed to make a ship. Though each profession would be needed to upgrade to a fully equipped ship. Woodworkers would assemble the ship/do repairs, Tailors would make sails/rope, Blacksmiths would forge cannons/cannonballs, Engineers would make Harpoons, Alchemists would make Gunpowder, and so on.
Cooks could make ration/food supply that are needed to keep the crew going (You need X rations to sail for Y hours.), Fishers could be important incase you run out of food, and first aid is always important.
Your ship/crew would have your own symbol/sail color (much like guild/arena banners), you would be able to unlock/hire NPCs to work on your ship as merchants, repairers, etc.
-- New Feature - Player housing
Even the most primitive of games have this feature, and all it does is give player a chance to express their creativity or show off cool trophys they've collected. Guilds will be able to purchase a guild ship, where all guildmembers will have a small cabin where they can display items, however players that own their own ships can deck out their captains quarters (which are much roomier) just the same, members of the crew will have a small cabin on the ship as well.
-- New factions - Navy (PvE) and Pirates (PvP).
You could serve the Alliance or Horde Navy and earn ranks as you patrol the seas for kraken and pirate warlords (PvE).
1. Seaman 2. Sailor 3. Cadet 4. Midshipman 5. Lieutenant 6. Commander 7. Commodore 8. Admiral 9. Admiral of the Fleet
Or you could become a scourge of the Sea and gain infamy as a Pirate. (PvP)
1. Swabie 2. Cabin Boy/Girl 3. Deckhand 4. Corsair 5. Pirate 6. Raider 7. Swashbuckler 8. Buccaneer 9. Terror of the High Seas
Special Titles: Captain (lead a crew) 1st Mate (Co-leader of crew)
Gameplay: PvE (Navy)
You would assemble a crew, get a ship, deck it out with cannons, Harpoons, Sails, etc. The ship really only needs a captain and crew, but from there specializations may occur naturally. Someone might be really proficient at manning the cannons and such. PvE "raid" content may be found by purchasing maps at Booty Bay from a retired sailor. The Map will lead your ship/fleet to a phased boss (Kraken, Siren, Faction warship, or whatever). The boss can be shot at with cannons, you could use a harpoon gun to bring it close and attack from the deck, If its a ship you can get close and swing across on ropes, or use a plank. Raids would be something like a island cove where your ship would enter through a cave, then you would be on an instanced island and you're free to do as you need.
Gameplay: PvP (Pirating)
You can't have player owned ships without Pirates. Players on PvP servers (or with PvP flag enabled) will be able to engage in sea battles to raid an enemy ship and 'plunder' their loot. When a ship is 'taken over,' by boarding and killing all members of a crew, the attackers can loot a chest that has gold and a small chance of gear proportional to the ships overall value. For example, if crew A raids crew B's ship that has 500,000g invested into it (sails, guns, etc.) Then Crew A might get 500g split among its members. Since having a smaller crew makes it harder, you get a bigger cut. Crew A doesn't lose anything, except maybe the cost of repairs on the ship. The defeated crew returns to booty bay, or a nearby port.
Gameplay: PvE (explorer/trader)
You travel from island to island in search of treasure and valuable goods/resources. On random islands you might find a one-use schematic for a powerful cannon upgrade, or dye for sails. Sometimes you might just find treasure. If the Navy or Pirating isn't your cup of tea you can explore the seas and make a profit as a trader supplying the others who equip ships for battle. Each Schematic is good to make the item once and then disappears, so Explorers/traders will be valuable to your faction's navy/pirates. (this would be handled in a similar way to archeology, where the locations are random and not something bots can easily farm; The locations would be unmarked)
Now, I think that would make for one hell of a fun expansion, but I guess I'm not too familiar with how much work would have to bee put into making it. The only downside I can see is that all this fun stuff would be obsolete after one expansion (especially the whole Ship focus) But It would be one fun expansion... if nothing else. And Like I said, the whole time we're doing our thing the burning legion is slowly starting to ramp up its invasion; building up for the next expansion.
Do you think it credible that engineers would get THAT if Tinkers were to get a similar ability? This is the problem with having Engineering available.
In all seriousness, your argument is just silly.
Since they can learn Engineering. The solution to having one class use Guns is to ensure other classes can also use guns. That class doesn't have to be a Tinker. Blizzard don't even need to bring in a new class; they just need to tweak some existing specs.I believe the problem is that only one class can use rifles or guns. And Hunters can use grenades? Since when?
As they aren't using tech to do it....no. Tinkers do. For the same reasons you've used to dismiss DHs in the past.Teleports and shields are available to numerous classes. I don't see how that is a valid argument. Monks, Shaman, and Warlocks have teleports and force fields. Are they stealing the thunder from the Engineering profession?
As it would be possible to do so without diluting the core theme of the class...I see no real reason against it. The use of fire magic, or time magic, or whatever - does not, in and of itself, negate or copy the theme of the class.So you wish to increase this overlap by implementing a class that has another fire-magic spec? Okay.
No. You tried to.I'm pretty sure I pointed out (in great detail) why Dragonsworn wouldn't work. It has little to do with my position on the Tinker class.
Given Blizzard said as much - yes. Its how game development works. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Blizzard m,ight have started with a dozen or so concepts, selected three of four with the most promise and then ended up rolling several into one. That Arthas was a DK played a role in the selection - but the Oriental theme of MoP guaranteed that Monk was going to be added. The link/stereotype is too great to ignore. But to suggest that WC3 is the one and only yardstick by which acceptability is measured is wrong.So you honestly believe that a Runemaster concept and a Necromancer concept had equal potential with a Death Knight concept in a game that was designed AFTER Warcraft 3, which had a main antagonist that was a Death Knight, and had one of the other character class' core concepts already wrapped up in its ability set?
No. The Monk class came about because its the obvious class of an Oriental Xpac. Once that choice was made, Blizzard then rolled Chens Brewmaster into the class design.Yes or No; Is Monk class is based on the Brewmaster hero from WC3?
Next will probably be Burning Legion, there are so many things that point to it, also Metzen hinted we will need the help from Alleria and Turalyon after MoP and he wasn't sure if they'll show up in MoP or not, meaning they had Burning Legion themed expansion planned to be the next after MoP and weren't sure if they'll bring us a patch with them before the expansion hits or when it hits. He was also asked about Sargeras and he said we won't be seeing, as in fighting him soon. So what do we get from here?
They say Alleria and Turalyon will be back in the next expansion and on top of that no Sargeras yet planned. Which means it's not going to be the last Burning Legion expansion, but are planning at least two Burning Legion expansions if not more in the future. That's why I'm so sure it's going to be Nathrezim leading the offensive from Xoroth. Burning Legion yes, but Nathrezim domain not Sargeras.
Just listen to him and you'll see what I mean. It's at 2:11:10, just so you don't have to check the whole show. Also listen to the bit about Sargeras at 2:14:20.
Game will just go down its current path, Blizzard made too many drastic changes to try to please and hold a volatile playerbase while pretty much ignoring the fanbase of what the game used to be. Sadly the crowd they tried to hook up is well known to have little attention span and tend to flock from games to games pretty often, and the new "in" things are MOBAS and F2P/P2W games, so no matter how dumbed down WoW becomes, it will continue bleeding subs while the fans move on as they remember what the company and the game used to be.
Expect more retarded horses, more paid services, more retarded cashmogs, paid boosts, paid gear (most likely using the Rift model, where you can buy the honor/justice equivalent to skip the grind), more gating to hold the casuals as long as they can, etc.
So on one hand you have an engineer getting rich off of building and selling a mount that can fly and travel at high speeds, and can harvest materials in flight, and on the other you have a Tinker tanking dungeons and raids in a robot suit. I'm not seeing your point here. One is doing what a crafter does, and the other is doing what a class does. The two are not related to one another, and the existence of one isn't detrimental to another.
It's important to keep in mind that nothing you mentioned here is a Tinker ability, because none of the Tinker abilities exist in WoW.As they aren't using tech to do it....no. Tinkers do. For the same reasons you've used to dismiss DHs in the past.
I dismissed the DH because there were DH abilities being used by other CLASSES via class abilities. So your comparison here makes no sense.
Like I said, your argument is silly.
A magic-based caster class using Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic wouldn't dilute the Mage class that also uses Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic?As it would be possible to do so without diluting the core theme of the class...I see no real reason against it. The use of fire magic, or time magic, or whatever - does not, in and of itself, negate or copy the theme of the class.
How is it wrong when all of the classes are derived from WC3?Given Blizzard said as much - yes. Its how game development works. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Blizzard m,ight have started with a dozen or so concepts, selected three of four with the most promise and then ended up rolling several into one. That Arthas was a DK played a role in the selection - but the Oriental theme of MoP guaranteed that Monk was going to be added. The link/stereotype is too great to ignore. But to suggest that WC3 is the one and only yardstick by which acceptability is measured is wrong.
You do understand that the Brewmaster hero unit, and the legend of Pandaria lore that came with said Hero unit, came WAY before WoW was even conceived don't you? Also the Monk class kind of has ALL of the Brewmaster's abilities.No. The Monk class came about because its the obvious class of an Oriental Xpac. Once that choice was made, Blizzard then rolled Chens Brewmaster into the class design.
I honestly think that Sargeras is too big of a villain to be in one expansion. I mean really, he's one of the reasons for everything being what it is. This whole South Seas expansion I don't know really about, might be more of a content patch, bringing Naga into a bigger role. Will we see Illidan again, yes and no. Yes, probably with a Demon Hunter starter, and no, he will not be a major character.
I feel Illidan's role will be with training the Demon Hunters prior to Black Temple. The Demon Hunters would be more of less hidden away, thought to be dead.
A lot of the content zones mentioned by OP are tied with the Legion in a way, so I feel we will start to see the connection coming to light in future patches and expansions. I cannot see 10-25 man raids bringing down the Lord of the Legion. Lore wise, makes zero sense. This would be a good time to bring in a) cross-faction event or b) bump the raid group back to 40. Even b would be pushing it, so I highly see a coming at that point. Blizzard in their sneaky way is already testing this with the 5.3 quests in Northern Barrens.
Fighting Sargeras will be no easy task, and not one faction should be able to bring him down. With bringing Sargeras in as an expansion boss, expect to see more Old Gods and the Titans and new worlds.
All this is my opinion.
One last thing, Emerald Dream expansion, unlikely. Expect to see it in the next Legion expansion though.
I'm thinking ocean-based expansion where Azshara raises a continent from the Maelstrom and uses it to launch invasions all over Azeroth.
I think we're going to be seeing a new class, because as Teriz said we've had 2 expansions in a row where new races have been added, and they're working on new models. I don't necessarily agree with him that Tinkers are going to be that class though.
I want a new continent the size of EK or Kal on the other side of the world, South Seas just sounds shallow.