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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosencrantz View Post
    Honestly, I heard whispers of the Emerald Dream becoming a thing and it has gotten me back to these boards.

    As far as retconning for the other classes to be able to enter the dream.... Ysera is still alive and kicking, and could easily be the tool used to bring non-druids to the dream. Remulos ports non-druids into the dream in WotLK for a quest. Getting non-druids there isn't an issue. It has literally already been done in the lore. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Hope_Wi...rald_Nightmare)

    Pretty much returning to good lore would spark my interest. They definitely improved gameplay in pandaria, but the setting made me lose interest very quickly. I was only subbed for a couple months before unsubbing again.

    tl;dr Emerald Dream or Burning Legion.
    Or...you know, people could walk through the gigantic Emerald Dream portals all over Azeroth. Getting in has never been the problem.

    All my hopes and dreams, no pun intended, are for the ED expansion. It's abouttttt tiiiime.....
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  2. #222
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    I would love a Burning Legion xpac again. Like what they did with Cataclysm with Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor but with Outland. With Demon Hunter hero class <3



  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes. If you question any of that, just let me know.
    I think the problem is having 3 unique and interesting specs that share a common look and feel while being functionally different enough to be interesting.
    Death Knight is a good example they feel similar enough to be the same class yet different enough to be interesting.

    Clockwork seems interesting, also this feels like what I think of when I hear "Tinker".
    Chemical doesn't feel very interesting nor does it feel very "tinkery", it feels like a tacked on healing spec just to have a healing spec.
    Gunnery looks like a hunter spec. It also doesn't feel very "tinkery".

    The whole reason for having it ranged I would think is to get more use from ranged weapons used solely by hunters. This means you probably want all 3 specs to be based on agility. Also dual wield pistols sounds super cool, but that means a new weapon to be used solely by the tinker which is the very same problem we are trying to address for the hunter. Dual wield 2H rifles and bows just seems silly.

    Honestly, it has some good ideas but no more so than any other class ideas I have heard. And it still needs 3 specs that share a common vision but are different enough to be interesting.

  4. #224
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    I think the problem is having 3 unique and interesting specs that share a common look and feel while being functionally different enough to be interesting.
    Death Knight is a good example they feel similar enough to be the same class yet different enough to be interesting.
    It's important to note that the Death Knight specs were pulled from multiple undead heroes and units. Frost comes from the Lich. Blood comes from the Dreadlord's Vampiric aura, and Unholy was based on the DK hero and the Necromancer.

    You can thank Blizzard's awesome design team for making it all appear seamless. They did an amazing job on the Monk class as well.

    Honestly, it has some good ideas but no more so than any other class ideas I have heard. And it still needs 3 specs that share a common vision but are different enough to be interesting.
    You can't base the Tinkers' viability as a full hybrid based on my weak effort. The Tinker can tank based on robotics, it can heal based on medical technology, and it can do DPS via advanced weaponry. Simple, and it doesn't overlap with any existing classes. Like the DK, Blizzard can merge multiple WC3 units and heroes together. In this case you have the Tinker hero, the Alchemist hero, Seige tank, Mortar Team, and the gyro copter. The archetype is extremely broad, so Blizzard has plenty to work with.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It's important to note that the Death Knight specs were pulled from multiple undead heroes and units. Frost comes from the Lich. Blood comes from the Dreadlord's Vampiric aura, and Unholy was based on the DK hero and the Necromancer.

    You can thank Blizzard's awesome design team for making it all appear seamless. They did an amazing job on the Monk class as well.



    You can't base the Tinkers' viability as a full hybrid based on my weak effort. The Tinker can tank based on robotics, it can heal based on medical technology, and it can do DPS via advanced weaponry. Simple, and it doesn't overlap with any existing classes. Like the DK, Blizzard can merge multiple WC3 units and heroes together. In this case you have the Tinker hero, the Alchemist hero, Seige tank, Mortar Team, and the gyro copter. The archetype is extremely broad, so Blizzard has plenty to work with.
    Actually I applaud your effort, but I think the problem is that it is so broad. I am sure they could come up with something to make it work, but then I again I think that holds true for any of the numerous other hero classes people have thought up. I would hope that if they did do a tinker they would focus on the machinist aspect of it as I think it best defines the class, but while they do that they still have to make 3 different specs that are interesting.

  6. #226
    Teriz the way i see it, most importantly. Something like a demon hunter class, is going to bring in subs. A tinker probably wont. Demon hunters have fanboys. And all of the tinker wannabes are you and your idiot following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  7. #227
    Hey, I'm with Tinker but I felt that way long before I even read mmo-champion forum, just because someone made a thread about it doesn't mean you should group everyone who likes as followers. There's been threads on Tinkers long before that and people shouldn't resort to name calling just because others want something different than you do.

  8. #228
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Actually I applaud your effort, but I think the problem is that it is so broad. I am sure they could come up with something to make it work, but then I again I think that holds true for any of the numerous other hero classes people have thought up. I would hope that if they did do a tinker they would focus on the machinist aspect of it as I think it best defines the class, but while they do that they still have to make 3 different specs that are interesting.
    You want something broad. That gives you flexibility when it comes to class creation. I'm sure that however they do it, it will have a consistent theme, with some very interesting abilities.

    I also disagree that it holds true for other class concepts are equal. Other class concepts either horrendously overlap with existing classes, or have no connection to the Warcraft universe. Tinkers are simply the best remaining option in terms of possible WoW classes.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well its hard taking such an idea seriously when it doesn't make any sense.
    Easy to say. Face it....the only reason against a Dragon themed class is that you don't want one. Your tinker class has overlaps. Or should we do away with the lightning generators and flame throwers and lasers?

    Tech based is not the only theme left unexplored or unused in this game.

    Then comes the other thing where lore sort of doesn't make sense. How would one person become the Dragonsworn of multiple dragonflights? That's sort of impossible.
    So is the idea of spec swapping. And really - you can't think of possible stories/lore whereby a Dragonsworn style character may have access to mutliple schools?

    I can. He just does because he is Dragonsworn.

    There's also a lack of unique abilities, lack of history of any type of Dragonsworn unit or hero from WC3, the closeness of the specs to Mage specs, among other problems.
    Really reaching. Unique abilities? Seriously? Really? You say a class that hasn't been developed yet doesn't have any unique abilities and so it can't be implemented? WoW....this idea of a Dragon themed class has thrown you off your game. No unit or hero from WC3? Well....that'd be OK because we don't have to fill your own personal assumption that new classes must fill that criteria. Its useful to have as it creates back story and ties to previous games but hardly essential. The closeness to Mage specs? So we should just rule out Warlocks and other casters ever again?

    Seriously - you are nitpicking without even trying to see how you could design a Dragon themed class.

    There's no basis for a Bard in the Warcraft universe. I've never seen a Bard unit, or witnessed a Bard fighting anything in any Warcraft game.
    The you haven't done the Twilight Highlands Wedding quests. And so what iof you haven't seen one? Why does everything have to come down to what was in previous games? Does Blizzard not have the option of adding something new?


    That Blood Mage concept sounds just like Warlocks who also manipulate life energies.
    Last I checked, Warlocks had a Demon theme and used Shadow and Fire magic.

    Tech not only has the WC3 hero and units backing it, but it has numerous NPCs and bosses, it has a faction leader using it, its has two races on opposite factions utilizing it, and its unlike other class theme in the game.
    None of which makes the tinker inevitable.

    Again, only if you ignore the evidence.
    So...you are going to state that there is no chance, not even the smallest possibility, that Blizzard might even consider adding a different class other than Tinkers? That there is no choice, and they have no option but to follow your rules and add the tinker. They won't even have the option of adding in WC3 hero unit such as the Warden or Sea Witch, or exploring new possibilities such as the Bard?

    Blizzard, the creators of the game, the people who say what goes in and what does not, have no choice other than to add in Tinkers and all other options are of the table because you can't think of a way in which they can be added.

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    Last edited by Talen; 2013-07-29 at 05:29 AM.

  10. #230
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Teriz the way i see it, most importantly. Something like a demon hunter class, is going to bring in subs. A tinker probably wont. Demon hunters have fanboys. And all of the tinker wannabes are you and your idiot following.
    Technology-based classes are traditionally popular in RPGs. Don't underestimate their drawing power, or staying power. Some people enjoy playing machine-based classes in fantasy games.

  11. #231
    Yes yes, entirely possible we'll be fighting the Legion again. Maybe playable Demon Hunters. Personally I'd prefer the next expansion didn't have a new class though - we just got a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Hey everyone, we all know that Blizzard lost a lot of subscriptions, so let's talk what would bring back(or even new) players?
    Long term? Nothing. Game is old. By now most people who were going to play it have, and a lot have played it long enough to burn themselves out or just get sick of it. No game lasts forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    Why does everyone want this "South Seas" xpac? What so special about it? I thought that was where the Goblin starting area is.
    Because it's the only area of the map not coloured in yet. So people assume it has to be an expansion.

    Truth is, we've already been almost everywhere in Warcraft lore, and we've already fought almost everyone in Warcraft lore. Bottom of the barrel scraping unless they come up with something new. Which is something nobody on the forums could predict, of course.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by -Zait- View Post
    I would love a Burning Legion xpac again. Like what they did with Cataclysm with Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor but with Outland. With Demon Hunter hero class <3
    Even if we do fight the Legion again, that doesn't mean going back to Outland. The portals there are closed just like Azeroth's. In fact they have been since TFT.

    Also, Outland doesn't need a revamp. Maybe some of the quests could be streamlined.
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  12. #232
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You want something broad. That gives you flexibility when it comes to class creation. I'm sure that however they do it, it will have a consistent theme, with some very interesting abilities.

    I also disagree that it holds true for other class concepts are equal. Other class concepts either horrendously overlap with existing classes, or have no connection to the Warcraft universe. Tinkers are simply the best remaining option in terms of possible WoW classes.
    It fails on one key point. It lacks support.

    The Anti-DH coalition as a whole is in the minority. And within itself it's split into multiple smaller camps.

    There is no way in the current era of sub freefall that Blizz would skip the majority-desired class in favor of a niche in the minority.
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  13. #233
    id love to actually see a "pvp-centric x-pan" done right.

  14. #234
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    It fails on one key point. It lacks support.

    The Anti-DH coalition as a whole is in the minority. And within itself it's split into multiple smaller camps.

    There is no way in the current era of sub freefall that Blizz would skip the majority-desired class in favor of a niche in the minority.
    Blizzard designs this sort of thing far in advance. The next expansion and all of its features were mapped out way before the sub numbers fell.

    Also there's no concrete data that Demon Hunters are "majority-desired".

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard designs this sort of thing far in advance. The next expansion and all of its features were mapped out way before the sub numbers fell.

    Also there's no concrete data that Demon Hunters are "majority-desired".
    Neither is there any concrete data to say that Tinkers are the next class. A new class has to have been in WC3, and so on and so on. Please, stop rejecting other ideas with arguments that work just as well on your ideas. Your tinker idea sounds fun, yes, but it's not holy. And all you have is a vague theory that it might someday become a class. Just like Demon Hunter, Dragonsworn, and whatever other class.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard designs this sort of thing far in advance. The next expansion and all of its features were mapped out way before the sub numbers fell.

    Also there's no concrete data that Demon Hunters are "majority-desired".
    If you dont think demon hunters are the most desired class theres something wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Why would they be? We have hunters and warlocks who have meta. THey could do a lot better then demon hunters.
    Know what youre talking about before you try and argue please

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  18. #238
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Easy to say. Face it....the only reason against a Dragon themed class is that you don't want one. Your tinker class has overlaps. Or should we do away with the lightning generators and flame throwers and lasers?
    Overlaps with classes is different than overlaps with professions. Just about every class overlaps with a profession in some way.

    Tech based is not the only theme left unexplored or unused in this game.
    Its the only unexplored theme left from WC3, and WC3 is the birthplace of all WoW classes.


    So is the idea of spec swapping. And really - you can't think of possible stories/lore whereby a Dragonsworn style character may have access to mutliple schools?

    I can. He just does because he is Dragonsworn.
    Well just to end this here; Only Druids can be the Dragonsworn of Ysera, so no healing spec there. Blue Dragonsworn tend to be powerful Mages. So that takes care of that. Orcs can't be Red Dragonsworn because Red dragons hate Orcs. Finally, Dragonsworn serve their individual Dragonflight over factions. So if Varian tells a Dragonsworn to join him in Pandaria, the Dragonsworn is likely to just walk away unless his Dragonflight orders him to go. So yeah, lorewise, that's quite a mess.


    Really reaching. Unique abilities? Seriously? Really? You say a class that hasn't been developed yet doesn't have any unique abilities and so it can't be implemented? WoW....this idea of a Dragon themed class has thrown you off your game. No unit or hero from WC3? Well....that'd be OK because we don't have to fill your own personal assumption that new classes must fill that criteria. Its useful to have as it creates back story and ties to previous games but hardly essential. The closeness to Mage specs? So we should just rule out Warlocks and other casters ever again?

    Well every class has filled that WC3 criteria, and so far this entire Dragonsworn concept just sounds like a Mage. Sorry, it just does.

    The you haven't done the Twilight Highlands Wedding quests. And so what iof you haven't seen one? Why does everything have to come down to what was in previous games? Does Blizzard not have the option of adding something new?
    Again, because all classes came from WC3.

    Last I checked, Warlocks had a Demon theme and used Shadow and Fire magic.
    They have Life Drain, the entire first tier of their talent tree, Health Stones, Siphon Life, and numerous other healing abilities.

    None of which makes the tinker inevitable.
    I have yet to hear a better alternative. Mage and Warlock rehashes or outlandish class concepts with little connection to the Warcraft universe just don't cut it.


    So...you are going to state that there is no chance, not even the smallest possibility, that Blizzard might even consider adding a different class other than Tinkers? That there is no choice, and they have no option but to follow your rules and add the tinker. They won't even have the option of adding in WC3 hero unit such as the Warden or Sea Witch, or exploring new possibilities such as the Bard?
    Out of those options? No.

    Again, at this juncture in WoW, the Tinker class simply makes the most sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lanerios View Post
    Neither is there any concrete data to say that Tinkers are the next class. A new class has to have been in WC3, and so on and so on. Please, stop rejecting other ideas with arguments that work just as well on your ideas. Your tinker idea sounds fun, yes, but it's not holy. And all you have is a vague theory that it might someday become a class. Just like Demon Hunter, Dragonsworn, and whatever other class.
    All the evidence points in that direction friend.

    Demon Hunters don't work because their abilities are in the game and absorbed by other classes.

    Dragonsworn is just a fancy version of Mages that have ties to Dragons.

    Neither concept is as likely as the Tinker concept.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    If you dont think demon hunters are the most desired class theres something wrong
    Some proof would be appreciated.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    Some proof would be appreciated.
    Already took a poll. Demon hunter torched every class except death knight, but still beat it. You remember it. I know how you like to conveniently forget things, but mmoc is just a small sample. If trends continue, which they would because when people think wc3, they pretty much think demon hunter, its easily the most wanted class. Not fucking tinker lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Already took a poll. Demon hunter torched every class except death knight, but still beat it. You remember it. I know how you like to conveniently forget things, but mmoc is just a small sample. If trends continue, which they would because when people think wc3, they pretty much think demon hunter, its easily the most wanted class. Not fucking tinker lol
    Blizzard is going to have to work some extreme magic if they add the Demon Hunter. Warlock has been siphoning a lot of abilities or hinted workings of a demon hunter forever now, let alone other skills from Warcraft 3. The single most apparent one is Metamorphosis, which is a Warlock ability (But a Warcraft 3 Demon Hunter ability). It'd feel weird on how they could change it to fit.

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