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  1. #181
    First of all I have to say that I hated Cataclysm a lot. Mists was a huge improvement, but I, unfortunately, haven't so much of free time as I had during Cataclysm's period. I see several reasons in this decline pattern:
    1. They haven't fixed serious 25-man raiding. 25-man guilds was a huge force which has been pushing realms for raiding.
    2. No recognizable villains. Wow had its peak in Illidan/Arthas times.
    3. Too much of dailies.
    4. People realized that Mists is not enough for compensating 2 years of game-time wasted during Cataclysm.
    5. Still no balance. Seriously, they destroyed complex talent system, introduced simple one instead and still can't balance it enough.

    And yeah, especially I want to thank you Blizzard for selling real-money items in subscription-based game..
    Last edited by Ethas; 2013-07-27 at 08:29 PM.
    The Mists of Pandaria coming on September 25

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Clearly I think the removal of instant catch up is a colossal failure. In the last quarterly report players "casuals" weren't engaged but people were still subbing and unsubbing around patches. The removal of instant catch or near instant catch up hasn't done a god damn thing to shore up subscriber retention and has (IMHO) cost them subs from the casual player base who could "catch up" very well in previous expansions.
    I dread what's coming after 5.4. Slow catchup and de facto attunement via legendaries (for those wanting to do raiding beyond LFR), coupled with LFR players quickly reaching the end boss and not needing gear to go any further, will lead to even more catastrophic net sub losses.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #183
    Focus on making game alt friendly is not good, it means there is not enough things to do with your main. I remember during Vanilla and tBC I never ever though of having alts and still had things to do in game with my single main toon.
    Last edited by Xjev; 2013-07-27 at 08:26 PM.

  4. #184
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I love my main but I get bored of playing the same class or characters all the time, so, like in wrath and cata, I like to play alts.. then remember.. jesus, I need to grind months of dailies to get anything on him/her.
    That's def not the case. I recently leveled a monk in 5.3 and the only dailies I "had" to run were the Isle of Thunder ones. Even those I could have easily skipped. The older valor gear isn't worth the valor. My monk is now iLevel 509 and the only way for me to get new gear is normal ToT, and like 2-3 pieces from ToT LFR. Toons only been 90 for about 3 weeks. 4 at the most.

  5. #185
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjev View Post
    Focus on making game alt friendly is not good, it means there not enough things to do with your main. I remember during Vanilla and tBC I never ever though of having alts and still had things to do in game with my single main toon.
    I have yet to hear any good arguments about why making the game alt friendly is a bad thing. Not having enough things on your main isn't a good enough justification nor is the appeal to "back in the day". The current game caters to individuals who only play one character, play for 20-30 hours a week, don't pvp (otherwise they'd have had endless game play in the first place and never needed to worry about running out of things to do) and in general are an extremely tiny minority in the game.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #186
    My biggest gripes about MoP have been:

    - The 5.1/5.2 daily grind and especially gating things behind Golden Lotus (this got corrected later on)
    - The lack of challenging 5-man content (apart from CM's - which are excellent addition to the game)
    - LFR associated grind (for all kinds of bloody tokens for the Legendary quest)
    - Putting the valor rewards on same ilvl (522) as normal raid rewards. I do understand the "soft-nerf" mechanic that these provided, but it still sucks. 516 would have been better.
    - Very unfriendly to alts - gear catchup is just too much to bother, really. But on the other hand main has much more content, so it sort of evens out.
    - Too much insta-cast CC in PvP

    Other than that (and those are fairly minor concerns), I'm reasonably happy about this expansion and rank it quite high - over Cata and Wrath certainly.

  7. #187
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver9172 View Post
    That's def not the case. I recently leveled a monk in 5.3 and the only dailies I "had" to run were the Isle of Thunder ones. Even those I could have easily skipped. The older valor gear isn't worth the valor. My monk is now iLevel 509 and the only way for me to get new gear is normal ToT, and like 2-3 pieces from ToT LFR. Toons only been 90 for about 3 weeks. 4 at the most.
    We should note that mists has come A LONG way from 5.0. It isn't all the way back yet but it's a far better situation than dailies ad nauseum. When we get to the point where I can catch up and not have to do any previous lfr tiers AND I can cap valor in roughly the same amount of time it would have taken me to do 7 dungeons then we'll be much closer. Also to much emphasis in general on LFR. Always with fucking raiding this game. I wish they had some balls and made raiding take a back seat in favor of other content.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #188
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Oh for the love of God, will you quit crying in every single thread? The Alliance had their fist pumping moment from PreBC-Late Wrath in terms of story development, deal with it, like we did.
    Keep telling yourself that load of bullshit

    For me and mop

    1. 85-90 sucked for alts
    2. Dailies were out of control
    3. Too much gating
    4. Gal was a horrible boss idea till they change his spawn time.
    5. Jp Totally useless
    6. Pvp Way more broken than before
    7. Random bgs filled with 10 man premades because of the conquest change
    8. The best looking gear and mounts going to the cash shop.
    9. The lore for mop sucked imo
    10. Alliance getting fucked over like in cata
    11. too much focus on lfr and vp

  9. #189
    yeah true my statement wasn't good, but having many alts recently was something made me feel not as good as having everything on my main toon.

  10. #190
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I dread what's coming after 5.4. Slow catchup and de facto attunement via legendaries (for those wanting to do raiding beyond LFR), coupled with LFR players quickly reaching the end boss and not needing gear to go any further, will lead to even more catastrophic net sub losses.
    People currently subbed (for lfr) will unsub. Players looking to resub will second guess that decision. The first group would POTENTIALLY be sated by having alts to play through with lfr but not this expansion. The second group just probably isn't coming back. I don't dred it though. I welcome it. It's a total and utter rejection of their design philosophy for mists (and to a lesser extent cataclysm) and I hope some serious soul searching goes on at Blizzard.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #191
    I think the game now is the best it has ever been. I especially appreciate how they corrected course and made all the expansion's raid tiers stay relevant, unlike Cataclysm and LK. It's just an older game with more competition now.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I dread what's coming after 5.4. Slow catchup and de facto attunement via legendaries (for those wanting to do raiding beyond LFR), coupled with LFR players quickly reaching the end boss and not needing gear to go any further, will lead to even more catastrophic net sub losses.
    Absolute truth.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjev View Post
    yeah true my statement wasn't good, but having many alts recently was something made me feel not as good as having everything on my main toon.
    It's fine if you hold that feeling but I'm not sure how pervasive or wide spread that feeling is. It's something I think that gets lost in translation a little bit. Personally I like the variety of playing multiple characters and rolls. I think the desire for that (even more than the desire for reward) trumps the desire for having things to do on one toon (that i've been doing things on for years now). Now without reward for that play style and with constant grind put in front of it (in effect punishing that desire) then it (and by extension the game) become less and less desirable.

    Honestly it's okay if you like doing things on one toon but it's not something that I thing is easily translatable. I can explain why I like variety in playing different rolls and different characters with different abilities. I can't explain why it's "better" to just have one guy doing one thing. Maybe somebody else can take a crack at it.

    It lines up. If you have multiple alts because you play 20-30 hours a week then it should line up (as it has in the past) that the guy who play 1-2 hours a week has just enough reward and progression for the time he can afford to submit to the game. Now SOME (and I mean some in the tiny minority sense of the word) people want to have 30 hours a week worth of content on their main but that's a desire that confuses me. I mean maybe cause you RP alot? *shrug* either way far more people were satisfied and catered to in the previous iteration of this game.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-07-27 at 08:39 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #194
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    1. The expansion theme was un-wowish. The whole expansion seemed not like Warcraft.
    2. Pandas made the game seem not like Warcraft.
    3. Too much Developer time spent on Wowkemon and Wokemon Battles.
    4. 25 man raiding continued to be almost completely dead and the Devs did nothing to revive it.
    5. The Devs encouraged raid guild shrinking and LFR-only raiding which in turn destroyed many communities who had survived the decimation of 25 man raid guilds. There are hardly any communities left in what is supposed to be a social game.

    Just give us legacy progression Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK servers and I will definitely re-sub. (I quit 2-3 months after MoP launched). Definitely not planning to resub to play MoP or any descendants thereof.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  15. #195
    Didn't do anything wrong. All products follow the product life cycle, and unfortunately WoW is no exception. It has entered the decline stage imo, or is at saturation point and has just started declining. Games will die out eventually, and it seems WoWs time is going to be slowly coming to an end over the next few years. Titan is in development, or wutever it may be called, and that will be ready to replace WoW when the time comes.

    Imo, MoP isn't doing anything wrong. The reason people say that Naxx etc were the hardest/most enjoyable raids is cause back then, people weren't as good at the game as they are now. Addons and skill of players has diluted the difficulty, and no matter how hard encounters are, people will find this game far easier than wut it was. MoP has been a fantastic expansion imo, and whooped catas ass really hard, but who cares, 7.7m is more than double their competition. No company will ever come close to WoW's playerbase, and they still have a healthy income. People seem to be making a mountain out of a mohill imo D:

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrax View Post
    The reason people say that Naxx etc were the hardest/most enjoyable raids is cause back then, people weren't as good at the game as they are now. Addons and skill of players has diluted the difficulty, and no matter how hard encounters are, people will find this game far easier than wut it was.
    This is far truer than most people playing since Vanilla want to admit.

  17. #197
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
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    MoP sure as shit wasn't Alt friendly but then again the levels we reached in Altalsim were ridiculous, where I had 9 characters that could complete heroic mode DS. Wrath was a lot better in that it took longer to get a max toon geared up since we had the lack of LFR. and the rep grinding and leveling experience I will say was the best we had in game, I could pick and choose different routes to level in in Wrath, Cata and MoP were waaaaay to linear. can't tell you how much I DONT want to level a toon through deepholm again.....

  18. #198
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Shark View Post
    MoP sure as shit wasn't Alt friendly but then again the levels we reached in Altalsim were ridiculous, where I had 9 characters that could complete heroic mode DS. Wrath was a lot better in that it took longer to get a max toon geared up since we had the lack of LFR. and the rep grinding and leveling experience I will say was the best we had in game, I could pick and choose different routes to level in in Wrath, Cata and MoP were waaaaay to linear. can't tell you how much I DONT want to level a toon through deepholm again.....
    Okay why was you having 9 alts ridiculous? Like it gets thrown around that it's a bad thing but I can't for the life of me figure out why. If you have 9 alts and you play for 15-20+ then the guy who plays for 2-3 hours a week is just getting by on his one toon and is far more satisfied than now where he's getting nowhere on that one toon because you having 9 alts is apparently ridiculous??

    It get's thrown around alot but nobody has ever put up a good argument. I think it's one of those things that's just assumed is bad but nobody ever looked into it having upsides as well. Even the devs say cataclysm was far to alt friendly but well how is that possible? Like how is that a bad thing? So what you have 9 alts. I don't see the downside... I would submit that even if it is a disease (and I don't buy that it is) mists as a cure is far worse.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #199
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurf View Post
    It wasn't so alt friendly as for example wrath/cata was ^^
    Wrath didn't have LFR. LFR is an altoholics god. Besides, very few players are altoholics. You can't design a game around ppl wanting 10 toons in max level gear.

    I said this from the beginning. Pandas. People hated the idea of pandas. And all of the lame lore that went along with it. People kept saying "Derp pandaren were in the series since WC3". Yeah. Because someone made an april fools joke about it. ANd then ppl said "HEY I WANT PANDAS". And blizz put a panda in. It was an expansion made from an april fools joke.

  20. #200
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    1. The expansion theme was un-wowish. The whole expansion seemed not like Warcraft.
    2. Pandas made the game seem not like Warcraft.
    3. Too much Developer time spent on Wowkemon and Wokemon Battles.
    4. 25 man raiding continued to be almost completely dead and the Devs did nothing to revive it.
    5. The Devs encouraged raid guild shrinking and LFR-only raiding which in turn destroyed many communities who had survived the decimation of 25 man raid guilds. There are hardly any communities left in what is supposed to be a social game.

    Just give us legacy progression Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK servers and I will definitely re-sub. (I quit 2-3 months after MoP launched). Definitely not planning to resub to play MoP or any descendants thereof.
    You really need to start playing a new record...

    MoP is as "wowish" as any other expansion.
    Pandas are actually Pandaren. If you can't see past them, you're obviously not seeing the actual game and lore that came with them.
    No dev time was really spent on Pet Battles, as they are actually called. It was pretty much done by the UI team, as Blizzard have said a few times.
    Tell me what Thunderforged gear was meant to do please. I think that counts as something at least. Nothing major though, I agree.
    The communities in the game have always been largely contained within the guilds. There are still a great many guilds out there that are plenty social. The devs can't force people to interact, and quite a lot of people on this very site that complain about it don't even do it. Not exactly solving the "problem", are they?

    Legacy servers would be a waste of time and money. This topic has been beaten so much that the horse is now a skeleton.

    Rarely updated...

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