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  1. #201
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Wrath didn't have LFR. LFR is an altoholics god. Besides, very few players are altoholics. You can't design a game around ppl wanting 10 toons in max level gear.
    That's not true. Their are far more players with alts they would play for variety than guys who play one character for the entirety of an expansion. Especially in more recent years. As for not being able to design the game around people wanting 10 toons in max gear I don't see why not. It's actually exactly what the devs are after. It gives people LOTS to do without putting out the players who can only afford to put like 2-3 hours in the game on one main toon.

    Everybody wins in the above scenario except for say the guy who wants to put 20-30 hours into one character. That guy is a minority.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #202
    Mop becomes INCREDIBLY alt friendly if you decide to just be like....hey, i'll get my items eventually, I don't HAVE to grind everything out immediately. You don't need to pour your focus into your toons over the course of a few weeks, you can just lay back and take your time with it. I am living proof of this.

    I have 9 lvl 90's and since I stopped caring about Valor caps, and such, i find I have time to raid, AND do all my toons.....in the span of just 2 days a week doing LFRs and look at the result of only a month and a half of doing things like this

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - DK Main
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Paladin Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Warrior Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Hunter Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Shaman Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...coris/advanced - Druid Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Monk Main Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Mage Alt
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...prime/advanced - Warlock Alt
    Last edited by AlisonPrime; 2013-07-27 at 09:01 PM.

  3. #203
    I don't think anything introduced in MoP caused decline in subscriptions.

    Game was ruined in Cataclysm and MoP didn't fix it: equal 10/25 man raids and shared lockout. It ruined 25 man raiding and alt/casual 10 man raiding, it caused death of almost all big relaxes/semi-hardcore guilds.
    Skinning a bear should aggro every bears in a 40 yard radius. It makes sense, you are actually skinning their best friend.

  4. #204
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You really need to start playing a new record...

    MoP is as "wowish" as any other expansion.
    Pandas are actually Pandaren. If you can't see past them, you're obviously not seeing the actual game and lore that came with them.
    No dev time was really spent on Pet Battles, as they are actually called. It was pretty much done by the UI team, as Blizzard have said a few times.
    Tell me what Thunderforged gear was meant to do please. I think that counts as something at least. Nothing major though, I agree.
    The communities in the game have always been largely contained within the guilds. There are still a great many guilds out there that are plenty social. The devs can't force people to interact, and quite a lot of people on this very site that complain about it don't even do it. Not exactly solving the "problem", are they?

    Legacy servers would be a waste of time and money. This topic has been beaten so much that the horse is now a skeleton.
    This expansion wasn't "Wowish" at all. Call them pandaren till you're blue in the face, but they are still pandas.

  5. #205
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    I said this from the beginning. Pandas. People hated the idea of pandas. And all of the lame lore that went along with it. People kept saying "Derp pandaren were in the series since WC3". Yeah. Because someone made an april fools joke about it. ANd then ppl said "HEY I WANT PANDAS". And blizz put a panda in. It was an expansion made from an april fools joke.
    "People" not actually being every WoW player there ever was. The lore actually in MoP is good. It's people like you that are too hung up and the "Pandas" to actually see any of it. Your minds are made up and nothing but an act of God would get you to say anything in MoP was good... 'Cos pandas

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  6. #206
    Pandaren Monk Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    The number one issue for me has been the incredible amount of gating this xpac has. They literally force feed you dailies/LFR until you unsub. I get that they are lazy and don't want to make catch up dungeons but honestly what they did in this xpac is make it near impossible for those of us that love making alts to enjoy the game. I can't ever stay on one toon for more than a couple of months I get sick of the play style. During Wrath/Cata I could swap to my priest once I got bored of my Hunter and get some decent gear fairly quickly do a couple of normals as disc till I got bored of healing. Switch to my warrior for some fun tanking, rinse and repeat with every level cap toon I had. In MoP its been a god damn nightmare for alt-aholics. I don't want to have to do a million dailies to get the damn coins for LFR loot. I don't want the entire gear progression to be RNG based, and I don't have the time to raid with my guild for catch up gear even if its old content. Case and point, bring back catch up dungeons and valor gear sets that get padded with LFR gear. Instead of forcing people to gear through a horribly frustrating mechanic. Oh and scenarios are not a "fun alternative" to raiding/dungeons. There's no incentive in doing them more than once. I mean if they added some cool transmog gear or something it be worth it. Like what they did with the first scenario during Cata. I don't know but as much as I love the pandaren race and Pandaria; I've really had a frustrating experience with this xpac. Its hard for me to say this but I've found MoP to be more boring than Cataclysm, with all its faults at least had decent PvP.

  7. #207
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    And people are over wow. Everything has a finite life. Including wow. It doesn't really matter what they do. WoW is going to continue to decline. Many people are just outgrowing it, and for kids, there are better games out there. MMO's just aren't cutting it anymore.

  8. #208
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    This expansion wasn't "Wowish" at all. Call them pandaren till you're blue in the face, but they are still pandas.
    I call Alliance and Horde fighting "wowish". But that's just me... But hey, TBC had aliens! Totally belong to fantasy they do... Not at all stepping into Sci-Fi territory.

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  9. #209
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Alliance and Horde going and each other throats is def not ''WoW''ish

    Goddamned idiots.

  10. #210
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    And people are over wow. Everything has a finite life. Including wow. It doesn't really matter what they do. WoW is going to continue to decline. Many people are just outgrowing it, and for kids, there are better games out there. MMO's just aren't cutting it anymore.
    MMOs were NEVER cutting it at least not to the degree that wow did. WoW only cut it because it was less MMO then well every other MMO. Their is a direct corellation between the developers embracing conventions of the MMO genre and the decline in the subscriber base. That doesn't mean it's a causation but I do think their is something there. Just not sure how you'd go about proving it.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrax View Post
    The reason people say that Naxx etc were the hardest/most enjoyable raids is cause back then, people weren't as good at the game as they are now.
    Well I played in (and before) Naxx and I'm still playing and to be honest, I was probably much "better at the game" back then. But back then I had almost unlimited free time to play the game. These days I have family and career and much less playtime and interest - other things have higher priority, it was back in 2006 after all.

    I could never go back to those days *but* I really like the game just fine as it is today.

  12. #212
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    Before the expansions release, Blizzard stressed and stressed the idea of being able to log in on your main and always have something to do.
    Did they achieve this? Yes.
    Are these things interesting and fun to do? Do you look forward to them every time you log in? Not in the slightest (generalizing here).

    That imo is the biggest hindrance of this expansion. There's plenty of endgame, heck some of it good, but most of it is boring, tedious, uninteresting... (looking at dailies, cooking, farms, etc...). It all just feels small scale, not very significant.

    They stressed getting back out into the world and having things to do. I feel that if they made these things actually feel somewhat epic and significant, they would be a lot more fun. There wasn't much anticipation, or excitement, not much of a "goal." But this ties into the main villain/army discussion which is a different subject.

    So I agree with you Trassk.

    This expansion is definitely better than Cataclysm, yet has lost just as many subs. It's weird how that is.
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  13. #213
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    MMOs were NEVER cutting it at least not to the degree that wow did. WoW only cut it because it was less MMO then well every other MMO. Their is a direct corellation between the developers embracing conventions of the MMO genre and the decline in the subscriber base. That doesn't mean it's a causation but I do think their is something there. Just not sure how you'd go about proving it.
    Of course not to the degree wow did. WoW was just a fluke. And when the magic wore off, it's done. Nothing Blizz does will gain subs again. Nothing they do will stop people from leaving. They've tried putting faceroll content in. They've tried putting difficult content in. Nothing is stopping it. The rise and fall of wow can be attributed to a few things. Vanilla-BC people coming from EQ saw that there was something way cooler than EQ out there. That built the rep. People flocked to it. 2007 WoW is introduced to the rest of the world in Southpark. Add in the barrage of Ozzy WoW commercials during wrath, and there you have it. WoW is at it's peak. Alot of ppl tried it out. Now, the inevitable fall is happening. It's not really to do with anything other than, the game is getting older and older. And in todays world, people always want new things.

  14. #214
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearmyth View Post
    Before the expansions release, Blizzard stressed and stressed the idea of being able to log in on your main and always have something to do.
    .
    Their was alot wrong with cataclysm. Why the developers focused their efforts on the above is beyond me. The system that were actually casual friendly in cataclysm WORKED FINE. They didn't need to ne retooled to give some players (the tiny minority who play 20-30 hours a week and only want to play on one toon and don't or didn't pvp seriously) more to do.

    The reason that the end game is tedious is because you feel like you never get anywhere because well if you did then you'd run out of things to do on that one guy and then you'd have to go onto an alt or something.

    As for going back into the world I don't think for a second it had a god damn thing to do with fun or epic. It had everything to do with effeciency and economics. THey spent all that time and money in cataclysm rebuilding the world and got very little player use out of it. Well screw fun they were going to FORCE players out into the world to use those assets. The same mind set behind lfr.

    This expansion is most definetly not better than Cataclysm, my suspicion is it will lose even more subs by the time it's done and I think it will even have the effect of breaking the trend of players coming back for the next expansion. Theirs a Simpsons gag in the Simpsons behind the laughter episode where the ratings dive and viewers are yawning at the show because it's boring but they're not just yawning. Their yawning angrily. Well I think people yawned in cataclysm, I think they're yawning angrily in mists.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-07-27 at 09:08 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #215
    It was the first expansion whose full raid content was available in LFR. I have nothing against preventing casuals from experiencing the game. Quite the opposite. Having LFR gives an avenue to finish every piece of content in a day (which, ironically, I just did within 24 hrs on my Mage alt). People get bored and stop subscribing. A game without any difficulty or length is a game that a large portion of the population won't continue to play for very long. This is, of course, following a steep decline from Late WotLK where LFD was introduced. Before this, the numbers peaked. So MoP's loss of subscribers is one part momentum, one part new bad decisions.

    This is all opinion, of course, but I think it's hard to deny that the game had nearly double the current subscribers without LFD/LFR and while there was still some challenge and (what we'll jokingly call) "grind." The moment longevity and difficulty requiring real effort are re-added, the subscriber count will see a climb again. Unfortunately, Blizzard has chosen short-term gain over long-term investment, despite all information pointing the other direction.

    Edit: Because someone will inevitably bring up Cataclysm Heroics: The problem wasn't the heroics, it was the LFD in combination with the Heroics. Again, a problem with LFD.
    Last edited by Frogged; 2013-07-27 at 09:10 PM.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  16. #216
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Of course not to the degree wow did. WoW was just a fluke. And when the magic wore off, it's done. Nothing Blizz does will gain subs again. Nothing they do will stop people from leaving. They've tried putting faceroll content in. They've tried putting difficult content in. Nothing is stopping it. The rise and fall of wow can be attributed to a few things. Vanilla-BC people coming from EQ saw that there was something way cooler than EQ out there. That built the rep. People flocked to it. 2007 WoW is introduced to the rest of the world in Southpark. Add in the barrage of Ozzy WoW commercials during wrath, and there you have it. WoW is at it's peak. Alot of ppl tried it out. Now, the inevitable fall is happening. It's not really to do with anything other than, the game is getting older and older. And in todays world, people always want new things.
    Well I agree to an extent but I do think we ought to give the developers some credit. They recognized the unappealing aspects of the mmo genre and tried to move away from those conventions and were successful doing exactly that. Can they turn it around? Maybe not. Should they return to what made them a success? Well ironically IMHO yes but that just means making the game less mmo like and continuing the trend of moving away from tired and stale MMO conventions.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #217
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Well I agree to an extent but I do think we ought to give the developers some credit. They recognized the unappealing aspects of the mmo genre and tried to move away from those conventions and were successful doing exactly that. Can they turn it around? Maybe not. Should they return to what made them a success? Well ironically IMHO yes but that just means making the game less mmo like.
    Honestly, they need to update. SC has been around for what? 8 years? Diablo has been around for like 20? Warcraft what 20? WoW is coming up on ten years. It's time for something new from them. Let WoW fizzle out, take dev time away from the game and focus it all on Titan. Get that shit out. Make it good, release it.

  18. #218
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Honestly, they need to update. SC has been around for what? 8 years? Diablo has been around for like 20? Warcraft what 20? WoW is coming up on ten years. It's time for something new from them. Let WoW fizzle out, take dev time away from the game and focus it all on Titan. Get that shit out. Make it good, release it.
    I actually agree to a large extent. In fact I think they need to update all their games. They need something new and unique. Like maybe that's gaming as a whole I don't know. We can take Blizzard as a microcosm though. Their building games based on 10-15 year old models with limited changes here and there (and often not every good changes) but fundamental based on game play models from like 15 years ago. Yea I agree. I mean they still need money obviously and I still want to play wow to some extent or another but yea it is time for something new. Everything has already been done though, hard to see what they can do...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #219
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    I read about the first 5 pages before I started typing mine. Most of the things mentioned come down to my list as well, but one thing I haven't seen is this:

    -The healing has changed. Drastically. I don't know exactly what it is, I can't explain it either, but I do not enjoy healing as I used to do the past versions, hell, even cata healing I enjoyed more than currently in this expansion. I guess it boils down to too much (active) mitigations (absorbtions) and too much passives (smart heals). There is barely any active healing involved, where you see HP go up, as opposed to Vanilla, BC and Wrath (Cata to a lesser extent, but it was still there).

    That is also why I do not like the current expansion, the healing is so drastically different and I find it hard to cooperate with it. I don't like it. Also, healing community turned into HPS meter whores, at least half of it, which is definetly what I did not signed up for when I started playing. Meters is for DPS, keeping those meters alive is what healers are for.
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  20. #220
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Scenarios are glorified group quests disguised as replacements for 5 mans. I find them extremely boring, especially the heroic ones. Heroic my ass, i could solo them with my hunter.
    Why exactly can't we que for them? They're beyond easy, it's a joke that we are not able to que for them, this is a step backwards. The worst thing about scenarios is that no loot drops in them except the fail bag at the end.

    No 5 mans... For me this is all it would have taken to ruin this expansion. They might as well have ripped out wow's backbone. I used to grind them normal mode and heroic mode on all my alts and I really enjoyed doing that for 3 expansions.

    The setting is awful. Pandaria is a racist caricature of China with a bunch of racist Asian stereotypes thrown into it too. Do a /silly with a pandarian character. The people who made the Charlie Chan movies would be proud. Was this supposed to attract players in China? If it was blizzard has really lost touch with reality.

    Dailys and double gating. What could i say that hasn't already been said about this. I'm just going to leave it alone and say yeh dailys and double gating sucked in mop.

    In game rain every 2 hours lasting 6 hours. I guess this doesn't bother you when you live in a bright sunny place like California. Illinois isn't like that, It's usually cold or rainy here, and when it is I don't log into a game to see cold rainy places. Valley of four winds is beautiful when it's a sunny place, when it's raining, It depresses me, i hate the in game rain.
    We wsed to be able to turn it off in bc, but unlike bc, blizzard doesn't give a shit about the players any more.
    Last edited by SL1200; 2013-07-27 at 09:24 PM.

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