Page 16 of 26 FirstFirst ...
6
14
15
16
17
18
... LastLast
  1. #301
    I think the major issues with Mists were that it was extremely alt-unfriendly and took too long to address that problem, the pervasiveness of LFR made gearing alts even more repetitive, and the overall theme was controversial rather than a "safe bet" theme like Legion- opening itself up to all the the people unable or unwilling to see past "lol pandas are for babies" perhaps affording more bad press and reputation than past expansions. Throne of Thunder raid tuning was also alienating to many casual guilds. Considering only about 5% of players are Heroic raiders, lower-difficulty content should be a design priority.

    I also think that Mists didn't make enough changes to freshen up an aging game with an outdated subscription model.

  2. #302
    The idea that the players just need to get better is absurd. You do not design the content around people needing to get better. You design it around the players. Normal has been badly tuned this entire expansion because it's what the hardcore asked and called for. Then the idea was throw out, well if it's too hard go pound sand and do lfr. A lot of people said to hell with that and quit.

  3. #303
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogged View Post


    Convenience does not make a game fun. Convenience leads to boredom. Aside from that fact, it's also worth pointing out that in some ways, MoP has been the most convenient expansion to date. Just yesterday I hit 90 on an alt and finished Lei Shen in LFR. That's convenient. I didn't even do one 5-man. The only inconvenient thing about MoP so far is that Have Group, Will Travel is no longer in the game.

    This is simple untrue. The game has also ROBBED so much player convenience and has just put players out for well no reason. Conveneience doesn't make a game fun or not but inconvenience can certainly make a game unfun. Boredom for you is a welcome addition for the guy who can only afford to put in so much time for the game. Would you go back to the days when you didn't have saved games and had to input codes? Saved games were a huge convenience.. Mists has lot's that isn't convenient about it like no flying for alts is another big one. Having to head to go to the stupid IOT to make craftable is another, lack of flying is another, mostly it's just the constant running around. Dungeons were also far more convenient as far as bite sized content goes.

    As for your experience with lei shen I would submit you are extremely atypical. I mean I finished my alt a couple of days ago and I still haven't seen lei shen but I didn't play like a mad man. Once again the casuals aren't the problem, the people who play for extended ridiculous periods of time are because they force the developers to design around THEM and not from the bottom up.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
    I don't see how dailies are negative to the game. In fact, I added them to my list in what went right. You mention yourself in this very paragraph that dailies are optional, as you intentionally skipped them and as far as I can tell, you're still alive. Why should optional content that some people like be a negative to the game? Why not just ignore it? Why is Blizzard responsible for you burning yourself out on content you don't enjoy? At some point, they have to add another piece of content that you don't find fun. Will you burn yourself out on that as well and ask them to remove it? The game is for everyone, not just yourself. If the content is optional, treat it as such and leave it alone for people who want it.
    Keep in mind that early on, ignoring dailies meant there was a lot you couldn't access. Valor points earned from raids were pretty much useless unless you did dailies to unlock valor gear... which made people feel like they were forced to do dailies (if you earn currency from one aspect of the game, you shouldn't have to complete another aspect of the game for that currency to be useful).


    More generally, I think that part of the problem is that it's just very difficult to regain players who left because they truly were done with the game. Players who quit during TBC, Wrath, or even Cata are unlikely to come back based on changes that have been made. It's possible, certainly, but it's more likely they just moved on. You can fix things to retain current players, and attract new players though features and the like, but it is very difficult to convince players who left to come back. (I'm assuming players who left because they truly weren't enjoying the new direction of the game, not people who left due to finances/time/etc or people who just rage quit to try and force Blizzard to do something.)

  5. #305
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Knowhere
    Posts
    3,870
    Can't speak for others but for myself as someone who's been playin since vanilla (with a break here and there) there was just nothing to keep me around anymore.

    - PvP doesn't feel right anymore, everyone is too powerful imo. Too much hp, too much selfhealing, too much cc, too many snare breaks.

    - PvE guild recruitement sucked on a high pop realm ;/ most new recruits turned out to be terrible players with many "omg don't stand in the fire" moments. But with no incentive to get better due to LFR it's not super hard to figure out why. Not that I object to LFR as I can see both the pro's and the cons..

    - I don't like dailys.. Never did, never will.

    - Everything goes too fast, you get gear way too easy and you quickly run out of things to do. I've had to resort to getting silly achievements to keep myself entertained.

    - I didn't really care for the raids either, I'm a huge lore fan but while raiding MSV there were moments when I just found myself not giving a shit about the boss. ToT on the other hand was a fantastic raid but again some encounters are just bad.

    - Bad player models, yes it's a minor thing but after all these years and terrific npc models it's time to see some improvements... not just the looks but animations aswel.

    - Bad tier designs don't really make me want to get them either, sure stats are important and there's the transmog option I do think it's cool to have something new and awesome to show aswel. I remember not liking the AQ40 tier but after a while it grew on me when people were impressed with it etc.

    - Leveling a totally new char from 1 tot 90 was dull and not really engaging. I hardly ran into people and found myself getting really bored at times. When entering Pandaria even with the 33% patch it was still a tedious place to level.

    - LFD/LFR/RGB ruin server community's and I wouldn't really miss them. Sure at first I'd miss the conviency but I'll get used to it.

    - I could do without flying mounts. Yes they're awesome and convient but using an FP and running the rest of the way really wasn't that bad.


    Hmm despite all these things I still play because I enjoy the game to some extent, I think mainly because of friends.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3620 View Post
    The idea that the players just need to get better is absurd. You do not design the content around people needing to get better. You design it around the players. Normal has been badly tuned this entire expansion because it's what the hardcore asked and called for. Then the idea was throw out, well if it's too hard go pound sand and do lfr. A lot of people said to hell with that and quit.
    Right idea, wrong conclusion. Normal was tuned harder than it was in the previous expansion on the assumption that LFR would provide a low difficulty option, but Blizzard failed to provide something for the social/casual guilds who came to love raiding in Cata when it was easy, but didn't want to deal with the idiots and environment provided by LFR.

    The solution isn't to make Normal absurdly easy again, and their mistake wasn't making normal harder. The mistake was not simultaneously providing a lower difficulty outside of LFR, and they're providing the solution in 5.4 with Flex raiding, which will be perfect for such social/casual guilds, not only because it's lower difficulty but because it's less strict on comp requirements.

  7. #307
    Deleted
    I personally feel like 5mans should reward gear in line with lfr, or at least have vendors not requiring rep, so that people dont have to run the lfr on alts, its just tedious, mix it up a little

  8. #308
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    No they didn't. They did the exact opposite of addressing it in MoP. They made it worse, MUCH worse. Scenarios replacing longer heroics isn't going to keep people playing. LFR over pugged raids isn't going to keep people playing. Absolutely terrible loot systems in BOTH scenarios and LFR hasn't kept players playing. There's more "casual-friendly" end game content than ever before. The problem is most casuals didn't even want the game to be "casual-friendly". Most were happy working their way up to where the so called hardcores were over a much longer period of time. But now that the casual folks can see most of what the hardcore players are seeing, getting loot that looks and behaves just like it they really don't care for progressing.

    The gates, grinds, weekly lock out on lfr, emphasis on daily questing, de emphasis on valor, lowered valor cap and lowered valor gains all suggest that their goal was very much to keep players chasing the carrot and retained for as long as they could. Subscriber retention was their goal and they did this by offering players more to do. Well for casuals this was the shaft and they said no thanks and left.

    I agree about loot systems and pugs and all of that but I think were talking about two different things here. They wanted to keep the crowd who said "we're bored" in 4.3 subbed because they blew through all the content and would resub between patches. They didn't succeed at that despite their best efforts. It takes FAR more time to do anything in this game than it has since well TBC. At the same time casuals got shafted (actual casuals in terms of time to play) and left the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Right idea, wrong conclusion. Normal was tuned harder than it was in the previous expansion on the assumption that LFR would provide a low difficulty option, but Blizzard failed to provide something for the social/casual guilds who came to love raiding in Cata when it was easy, but didn't want to deal with the idiots and environment provided by LFR.

    The solution isn't to make Normal absurdly easy again, and their mistake wasn't making normal harder. The mistake was not simultaneously providing a lower difficulty outside of LFR, and they're providing the solution in 5.4 with Flex raiding, which will be perfect for such social/casual guilds, not only because it's lower difficulty but because it's less strict on comp requirements.
    Actually the solution is to make normals easy again. The mistake was making normals hard again. How many more times does the player base have to reject hard content before the developers figure it out? Simple dividing players up between tiers of difficulty will not pump much needed life back into raiding or help retain subscribers. Theirs no illusion that your better or stronger than you actually are in that system. Theirs you being told exactly where you are and given a number in the masses.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Right idea, wrong conclusion. Normal was tuned harder than it was in the previous expansion on the assumption that LFR would provide a low difficulty option, but Blizzard failed to provide something for the social/casual guilds who came to love raiding in Cata when it was easy, but didn't want to deal with the idiots and environment provided by LFR.

    The solution isn't to make Normal absurdly easy again, and their mistake wasn't making normal harder. The mistake was not simultaneously providing a lower difficulty outside of LFR, and they're providing the solution in 5.4 with Flex raiding, which will be perfect for such social/casual guilds, not only because it's lower difficulty but because it's less strict on comp requirements.
    Normal was not that easy before this expansion. That's what the hardcore were screaming about, that it was and Blizzard bought it hook line and sinker. Dragon Soul before the nerfs was about right or even Firelands was fine. If people want really hard content they have heroic. Normal should be normal.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    MoP has been more "alt friendly" than ever. Look how easy it is to gear up.... it's almost too fast.

    There is no reason to do all those dailies again unless you want to.
    This... My alts exist to basically supply my main with whatever he needs. I leveled the profs, and they sat until they cut the amount of xp needed to level. Since then I've leveled 4 toons to 90, used AV weekend to get them to a 476 Item level via PVP gear, ran the world bosses and BOOM, at 480. Once a week a buddy and I go around and kill the warscouts and warbringers -- we load up on rep tokens. Main aside the other toons likely took 3-4 hours of play time to be TOT LFR ready and revered on everything save for Anglers -- most of that in AV weekend grinds. Do a couple runs through LFR and boom, you're at 495-500 or so item level without much effort at all.

    Even getting 50 coins is easy.. One day of dailies on the Isle and killing rares, gets you close.

    Since raiding on my main is my primary focus -- I've enjoyed MOP a great deal.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Right. Okay. Don't call WoW an MMO then. I could care less. Everything that wow did and what made wow a success was totally and completely the opposite of every mmo standard in the universe. Flying is on EXCELLENT example of this.
    You're right, it IS an excellent example, though probably not the way you intended. There's no risk at all during the process of flight. You can't get knocked off your mount, or even attacked unless you go out of your way very specifically looking for it. There is zero upkeep or any sort of relationship to maintain with your mount. It's essentially a brain-dead point and steer, which disengages the player from the game, and turns into a lackluster chore.

    There's all sorts of room for improvement in this particular aspect of the game. Imagine if there were no guarantee that you'd make it to where you were going without death, or it maybe taking longer for a variety of reasons. Or if your flying mount was something you needed to level, and it could travel further as you progressed. Or if some of them had unique abilities (catching fish, gathering skins for you, etc) It would make flight points an interesting option in some areas (and flight costs could go up considerably, based on your level as an offset) if you wanted the luxury of it.

    How hunter pets are handled now is another fine example of something that used to be at least on the right path game-play wise, and is now a complete and utter joke of a game mechanic. So much potential, thrown away under the guise of 'quality of life'.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoddie View Post

    Some of the profession work was generic and boring, but I enjoyed the cooking prof and how it took a combination of dailies/work/gold/exploration to get to 600 across the board. The ranch is/was a ball ache to babysit daily but it was fun for a while and something new, particularly the way the farm evolved over the short to medium term. I thought the attention they paid to fishing and archaeology, both criminally over-looked in Cata, was promising but that still more could have been achieved.

    The farm gets tedious, but it's one of the things I hope they carry-over to the next XP. Being able to "make" your own mats without legitimately "farming" in the traditional sense has been pretty awesome

  13. #313
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,184
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You're right, it IS an excellent example, though probably not the way you intended. There's no risk at all during the process of flight. You can't get knocked off your mount, or even attacked unless you go out of your way very specifically looking for it. There is zero upkeep or any sort of relationship to maintain with your mount. It's essentially a brain-dead point and steer, which disengages the player from the game, and turns into a lackluster chore.

    There's all sorts of room for improvement in this particular aspect of the game. Imagine if there were no guarantee that you'd make it to where you were going without death, or it maybe taking longer for a variety of reasons. Or if your flying mount was something you needed to level, and it could travel further as you progressed. Or if some of them had unique abilities (catching fish, gathering skins for you, etc) It would make flight points an interesting option in some areas (and flight costs could go up considerably, based on your level as an offset) if you wanted the luxury of it.

    How hunter pets are handled now is another fine example of something that used to be at least on the right path game-play wise, and is now a complete and utter joke of a game mechanic. So much potential, thrown away under the guise of 'quality of life'.
    Your right that's not what I intended. All the systems that players lament were added in the "best" expansion this game ever had but they were also I would argue in large part responsible for this games success. I know I know you've got a long diatribe against convenience and quality of life but those things exist for a reason, a very good one. They ease players frustrations and make playing the game smooth and enjoyable. Not frustrating, painful, slow and grindy.

    Flying is a good example of the above. If tmmrw they got rid of it entirely or nerfed it as you suggest you think people would stick around and put up with that? Not only can you not unwind that clock (although I hope they try) theirs no reason you should. Travelling in general is brain dead, even on ground mounts I alt tab and run through most crap and OCCASIONALLY have to alt tab back in because I dismount. It's TRAVEL, it should be brain dead because it's not your goal. Your goal is to finish whatever task, not get on the way to finish whatever task. Being waylaid by mobs to get what you need to get done is BORING. It gets tired REAL fast and it got tired on IOT exceptionally fast. IOT was a little better for this because of how it was designed, everything was fairly compact so getting from A to B didn't really leave you to get waylaid that often. IN the rest of the world forget about it. It would be a massive pain in the ass and it was lvling in mists.

    Their seems to be this ridiculous notion that inconvenience makes the game fun and that conversely convenience makes for boredom. Well I can tell you that inconvenience does not make for fun, what it does is make for frustration and not enjoyment or entertainment. If inconvenience made for fun you and I would still be typing in codes for levels instead of saved games. They embraced so many painfully stupid and regressive notions this expansion and instead of ameliorating the sub loss it exacerbated it. The time to embrace outdated and outmoded notions has come to an end. We need more flying not less.

    As for hunter pets they can go DIAF. If they had a hunter spec that let me sacrifice my pet I'd take it and never look back.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-07-28 at 01:29 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Your right that's not what I intended. All the systems that players lament were added in the "best" expansion this game ever had but they were also I would argue in large part responsible for this games success. I know I know you've got a long diatribe against convenience and quality of life but those things exist for a reason, a very good one. They ease players frustrations and make playing the game smooth and enjoyable. Not frustrating, painful, slow and grindy.

    Flying is a good example of the above. If tmmrw they got rid of it entirely or nerfed it as you suggest you think people would stick around and put up with that? Not only can you not unwind that clock (although I hope they try) theirs no reason you should. Travelling in general is brain dead, even on ground mounts I alt tab and run through most crap and OCCASIONALLY have to alt tab back in because I dismount. It's TRAVEL, it should be brain dead because it's not your goal. Your goal is to finish whatever task, not get on the way to finish whatever task. Being waylaid by mobs to get what you need to get done is BORING. It gets tired REAL fast and it got tired on IOT exceptionally fast. IOT was a little better for this because of how it was designed, everything was fairly compact so getting from A to B didn't really leave you to get waylaid that often. IN the rest of the world forget about it. It would be a massive pain in the ass and it was lvling in mists.

    Their seems to be this ridiculous notion that inconvenience makes the game fun or that convenience makes for boredom. Well I can tell you that inconvenience does not make for fun, what it does is make for frustration and not enjoyment or entertainment. If inconvenience made for fun you and I would still be typing in codes for levels instead of saved games.
    We'll just have to agree to disagree. I say that game mechanics that are viewed as chores could use a revisit, and be reworked into an interesting aspect of the game, rather than something so pointless it might as well be removed altogether. That isn't going to help keep players subbed.

    To me, IoT (if you were undergeared) was pretty close to spot in terms of player engagement, though mob density could have been increased. The one klaxxi island was also good if you weren't overgeared as well (the one where they'd send you to kill various packs), as is dino isle.

    Different strokes and all that.

  15. #315
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,184
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree. I say that game mechanics that are viewed as chores could use a revisit, and be reworked into an interesting aspect of the game, rather than something so pointless it might as well be removed altogether. That isn't going to help keep players subbed.

    To me, IoT (if you were undergeared) was pretty close to spot in terms of player engagement, though mob density could have been increased. The one klaxxi island was also good if you weren't overgeared as well (the one where they'd send you to kill various packs), as is dino isle.

    Different strokes and all that.
    By the same token removing or nerfing convenience in the game isn't going to keep anybody subbed and Mists is pretty good evidence of that.

    IoT is a pretty good example of getting players to go out of their way pointlessly to keep them engaged. It clearly didn't retain subscribers. If anything mob density should be lowered, especially along the roads. When I go the island I'm not stopping their to site see or screw around with mobs on the way, I'm going to complete my quests and hopefully get a little bit further along the progression road. The more obstacles you put in the way of that the more unattached I get from that goal the more likely I am to move on to other games. If the developers learned one thing this expansion I hope they learned that people have VERY limited stomachs for "the stick" and can and will walk away from the game if you beat them up to much.

    I mean your absolutely welcome to like that but to expect that theirs a sadomasochistic desire on the part of a large majority of the player base to be subject to such ridiculous obstacles in the name of regressive ideas and genre conventions is pretty silly I think. Especially when it garnered all the success that it did by abandoning and moving away from those same conventions for years.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #316
    The Lightbringer serenka's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London.
    Posts
    3,380
    Another thing for me that didn't work, armor set designs, I think aside from vanilla this expac has been the worst for armor designs. Nt a single one I have liked so far, thank god for transmogrify!
    dragonmaw - EU

  17. #317
    The other major problem this expansion is Blizzard's total failure to respond to the population issues of servers. They messed it up in every way possible. Low population servers became worse, the raise of mega servers with ques and the end of faction balance on nearly every server.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    By the same token removing or nerfing convenience in the game isn't going to keep anybody subbed and Mists is pretty good evidence of that.

    IoT is a pretty good example of getting players to go out of their way pointlessly to keep them engaged. It clearly didn't retain subscribers. If anything mob density should be lowered, especially along the roads. When I go the island I'm not stopping their to site see or screw around with mobs on the way, I'm going to complete my quests and hopefully get a little bit further along the progression road. The more obstacles you put in the way of that the more unattached I get from that goal the more likely I am to move on to other games. If the developers learned one thing this expansion I hope they learned that people have VERY limited stomachs for "the stick" and can and will walk away from the game if you beat them up to much.

    I mean your absolutely welcome to like that but to expect that theirs a sadomasochistic desire on the part of a large majority of the player base to be subject to such ridiculous obstacles in the name of regressive ideas and genre conventions is pretty silly I think. Especially when it garnered all the success that it did by abandoning and moving away from those same conventions for years.
    Convenience kills role playing elements from the game. Sometimes that's fine for insignificant things but for the most part it isn't.
    Flying mounts disconnected you from the "world" more than ground mounts.

    Individual group buffing, for example, wasn't a very good element to keep at the expense of convenience.

    And I'm sorry to hear that IoT was too harsh for you, that enemies are keeping you from comleting your quests. How dare they. What are they doing on the silly Island anyways! They're just an obstacle between you and your objectives!

  19. #319
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,184
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    Convenience kills role playing elements from the game. Sometimes that's fine for insignificant things but for the most part it isn't.
    Flying mounts disconnected you from the "world" more than ground mounts.

    Individual group buffing, for example, wasn't a very good element to keep at the expense of convenience.

    And I'm sorry to hear that IoT was too harsh for you, that enemies are keeping you from comleting your quests. How dare they. What are they doing on the silly Island anyways! They're just an obstacle between you and your objectives!

    It wasn't to harsh for me but I can understand why people leave when the game developers decide to throw obstacles in front of them and mask incovenience as immersion or as gameplay. It's not. Flying mounts disconnecting you from the world is fine because the world itself is a massive disconnect. Simple removing flying mounts will not reconnect you to do it, all it will do is make you feel slightly annoyed and inconvenienced. Their is no connection, no immersion back down that path. Their is only continued subscriber loss.

    Look in mists they tried to embrace so many painfully stupid and regressive ideas and not only did it NOT stem the tide of sub loss it only served to exarcebate it. Why do you think continuing to rob players of convenience is a good thing? Why do you think masking inconvenience as immersion works? Do you not use the save game feature on your games anymore? I hope they do get rid of all of it. The only way this argument will ever be finished is if the developers embrace every idea they can and just tank the game. Then we can finally put the debate to rest.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-07-28 at 02:35 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #320
    Pet battles: MASSIVE amounts of time and effort put into that with no big response or want for it in any way. Sure maybe 10% of whats left of the population likes it, but the time spent on that could have gone into something 90% would of liked. Transmog needs to be taken out of this game, it has led to a lack of care for gear design on blizzards end since if people dont like it they just change it to w/e tier the go and farm out of MC. If you think that's wrong just poll the first group of people you see in a raid group, are they all in the new dull stuff or the old shiny stuff?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •