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  1. #361
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
    I guess I was just perfectly happy being led along for 2 years But then again, I LOVED the 5-mans that were available in WoTLK, I didn't mind doing dailies because I was engrossed in the story, and I got new content and could continue to progress my character via the new 5-mans that came out with each raid patch. By the way, I vastly prefer getting new 5-mans that drop higher ilvl gear than the ones that ship with the xpac to having LFR with neutered mechanics. That's what I did all throughout Cata, too - grind 5-mans; do dailies. And I had fun. I suppose that model just requires too much development time and budget spread over different forms of content.
    I actually prefer that model as well. I think alot more folks did. Granted we also had easier normal 10 man raids in wotlk so their was still that to. It wasn't exactly lfr but it was easier.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #362
    The Patient sixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    --LFR causing ppl to see content immediately
    --"Required" dailies
    --Lack of DUngeons
    --Scenarios being unpopular

    Those 4 things combined IMHO make up 99% of the reason behind people quitting, including me. I have not logged in for 4-5 MONTHS (Logged in 1x to kill the ToT endboss in LFR) I still have a few weeks left of unpaid subscriber time, so count me as one of the -1 subscribers in the next quarterly report or the one after.

    Knowing BLizz, theyll try to combat this loss by delaying LFR unlocks even longer than they do now. Didnt they space out the last LFR like 5-6 weeks? Pretty desperate thing to do instead of just fixing the problem altogether.
    Exactly. And it'll be pretty sad if they take that decision of delaying LFR unlocks. I'll mean they ran out of ideas

    Back in my day your ultimate goal was to be able to raid, to get into raiding. It didn't only required getting the gear for it but it also required you interacting with the community to get through dungeons, heroics etc. To ultimately find a guild, a group of organized people to get into raiding. Today you can solo this game, is this an MMO anymore?

  3. #363
    Dailies. While not mandatory, making them the focus of the content was MoPs biggest drawback.

  4. #364
    The Patient sixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldNSilence View Post
    Dailies. While not mandatory, making them the focus of the content was MoPs biggest drawback.

    Oh yeah totally, and even so they "changed it back", the harm was already done.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by helic View Post
    Pet battles: MASSIVE amounts of time and effort put into that with no big response or want for it in any way. Sure maybe 10% of whats left of the population likes it, but the time spent on that could have gone into something 90% would of liked.
    Two things completely wrong here: First of all Pet Battles were done by the UI time, meaning there was very little, if any, developer time spent on this, so the "time and effort" wouldn't have been allocated to anything other than UI enhancements, which I highly doubt would be the downfall of an expansion.

    Also, Blizzard has stated multiple times that they themselves were surprised at how well received pet battles were, how a large portion of the playerbase has actively engaged with them, and how such a small and easy to make concept has provided some of the best feedback in a long time for them. So you're wrong on all counts.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Aztrazolo View Post
    For me, I'd have to jump on board with it not being alt friendly. Whatever I've done once on my main has been excruciatingly tedious on my alts, and I did not find the previous expansions to be that way. Though the repetition of dailies and such was a large contributing factor to that, I'd have to say for me that having what I consider largely uninspiring zones was also prohibitive of enjoyment a second time around. The zones were certainly impressive and well done, but nothing that from an immersive standpoint really was so awe-inspiring or different that just being in the zone was a reward in itself.
    I have to agree, I have tried with 5 different alts and only got 1 to 90, the rest it felt like it got really boring really fast.

  7. #367
    Dreadlord
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    This is really simple:
    1.) No one likes a rail-rider. The attitude of "you will play the way we tell you" is exactly the opposite of what creates replay value. Too many knee-jerk nerfs, too many nerfs to anything that feels fun. It's reaching the point where there's no reason to play anymore because you have no control over how you play the game.
    2.) Not alt friendly. LFR is a complete failure, getting valor for your alts is too much work, and heroic scenarios demand gear that only mains (and hardcore players' alts) have.
    3.) Monks are a disaster. Did they really think "let's make this class the same strength as everyone else and much harder to play" was a viable selling point?
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So, as we know the news of the sub decline is all over the place now and endless throwing of words ensues from it.

    But, lets talk here about what, seriously, happened in mists that caused such a decline. According to the charter shown on the other thread, well the decline in cata had begun, it did infact stabilize itself near the end of it, and it seemed to keep to a cool 10m players.
    Mists has dropped it down to over 2m more players since cata, which you'd think would be a massive wake up call for the developers to look hard at the product.

    So rather then mixing it into another thread based on 'omg 7.7 subs wow is dying', I'd like to simply ask what people think happened in mists that caused such a surge of losses in such a short space of time.

    Myself, I think its a knock on effect from several reasons. As cata already had an obvious leak, whatever they did in mists didn't stop the leak, and infact only seemed to make the hole bigger. In cata, the complaints seemed to be things like not enough endgame content to do, there heroic dungeons were to hard, there were not enough zones and it was all spread out, and so on.

    However, despite blizzard addressing certain issues said in cata, like giving more things to do outside of raiding in mists, and more reason to return to previous zones, and even something like throne of thunder, it still wasn't enough to stop the leak. Myself, I actually enjoyed mists a lot more then cata and its content. The raiding wasn't as exciting as cata, but raiding is only a small portion of the game overall.

    My belief is, on several points:

    - The endgame in mists, well it was fun enough the first time around, it was excruciating to repeat it on an alt. Even with things like rep buffs, having to do all those dailies in alts again after you did them on your main, it was to much. I believe the tabard system in wrath was always the best system, since it was good for mains and alts.

    - The replay value of wow just doesn't have that replay value it once did. It seems strange saying this now since it would have applied to cata too, but given how its been over three years since cata, and the massive changes they made to vanilla wow, one of the biggest complaints about cata was how lineal the game had become. I honestly have no motivation to level alts anymore because of how boring it is, which ironically fits into what I just said about the daily grind.

    I think, what blizzard seems to not understand, is how one of the biggest contributing factors of keeping players hooked on there game, is the reply value, as it is with any game. Alts are the reply value for wow, because once you've done something on your main you can't replay it. So, in what they've done with cata, and with mists, people simply don't want to play on other characters. They don't have anything to work towards on them because achievements are now account wide, so.. there i literally nothing to do outside of your main. and once you've done it on that, most would probably agree they'd sooner do the new content, not bother with alts, cancel sub until the next content patch, and then repeat.

    Anyway, thats my two cent. Unless blizzard finds a way of giving replay value to there gamers and give them reason to play other characters, to have a goal to work towards on them.. this is how it will be.
    For me, it feels way too alt unfriendly to get to max and also raiding is mostly dead unless your in a well known raiding guild. I have been in 3 guilds this x-pac and mostly all fall apart due to no interest in raiding or not getting the right days times and such, most of the time any raiders are told to just LFR if thay want to raid and I think that is what hurt the game more then anything.

  9. #369
    High Overlord
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    PvP. It has been out of control this expansion. Way too much cc and burst. Hoping in the next expansion ccs get a major rework so its not fear stun trinket cyclone fear root dead kinda scenario.

  10. #370
    was there any "setbacks" on this expansion??

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    snip
    Sorry, your theory has a major flaw, that is Vanilla and TBC. Which was painful to level then to actually invest time was a nightmare. So very painful that the game was streamlined. Obviously, WoW grew into the 800 gorilla in the room; during what is considered the most inconvenient, time consuming era of the game.

    But DUDE, the game was NEW! I think the argument that the game was "new" is a little flat. Considering at the time, games like UO, Everquest, and DAOC had much larger time sinks, and most of those gamers then considered WoW to be FAR easier to play and meta.

    The fact is WoW was easier then other games on the market. Then easier WoW got the more subs it got. Now, quite frankly, it's TOO easy, TOO streamlined, and TOO accessible. Thus dropping subs as nothing is special. It has nothing to with replay value of alts.

    WoW will retain quite a few subs, in comparison to other MMO games. One of 2 things happen... either WoW "revolutionizes" itself or someone knocks it down. Get used to not having as many people around. It's only going to get worse.

    Not only that, I thought you were better then posting. "OMG, why is WoW dropping subs posts.."

  12. #372
    I stopped playing because..

    *Nostalgia is gone
    *Friends i played with from Release through Wrath are almost all gone
    *The "self accomplishment" of the game has almost completely faded. Players are handed epics and hardly have to earn them.
    *Content becomes obsolete. In BC, Karazhan was relevant (even if only for Alts) to the final days of the expansion, simply because only a few guilds progressed much farther than it. Yes, i get the whole "we want to see all of the content" blah blah. But it leaves nothing to be desired when you know it will become trivial in a few months. (Why work hard for it?)
    *My warlock class has become a cake walk. Dont get we wrong; BC was sb spam all day, but for the most part, it was a complex class and fun.

    Overall, the game just isnt "bigger than i am" anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Heroic progression is still tough, but far less rewarding. Hence i refuse to put as much time into the game anymore.

  13. #373
    For me:

    1) Nothing to do outside of raiding(actual raiding is quite good right now)

    2) LFR is still horribly done

    3) 5mans and scenarios... just bad.
    Brunnorx/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 14/14H T16 - 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  14. #374
    Brewmaster Treeskee's Avatar
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    I've enjoyed it except for lack of stuff to do after my old raids for mounts/ToT for the week, but that's mostly because my server is tiny and I refuse to spend a few hundred dollars to get all my toons on a new one.

    Also I don't really see how it's so alt unfriendly (especially after the XP to 90 nerf). Only need to do certain reps on certain toons and it goes super fast after one toon has hit revered, if you don't like doing dailies then just farm warscouts/warbringers/hozen peace pipes for rep, the patterns you get aren't required especially this late in the expansion since at least one friend will have them. Loving active mitigation on my tank, nice to do something other than stand in the right spot and button mash too.

  15. #375
    Stood in the Fire Jamyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Everything was perfect until 5.3. It has got to be the worst patch ever with it's boring Barrens "event" and it's terrible weekly quest being all there is after finishing the 3 or 4 lead ups. Even the rewards are boring. They would have been much better off with a series of dailies like the previous patches. At least then , you'd have a reason to log in every day.
    The Barrens event is great and fixed my boredom with dailies. Perhaps they should have provided both, but I look forward to the Barrens weekly.

  16. #376
    One of the biggest reasons for the loss of subs for this expansion is that they did a Panda based expansion and the Chinese government does not particularly care for such things...as shown in the fact that the largest majority of sub losses have come from the Chinese region. The other big issue was that many of the different reputations were locked behind dailies until 5.3 was released and people didn't like that.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  17. #377
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Questing for the first time was the best fun I have had in wow but it had no replay value. Xpack a before I have had 10 max levels. This expansion I was bored on my 2nd player.

    Dailies are fine but should NEVER have been linked to vp gear. To add. JP was also fucking useless and still is this far into an expansion.

    Raids. For the first time in almost 8 years of non stop raiding each week I was fucking bored. Bosses had so many reused mechanics from past raids that it was a fucking joke. I quit raiding by heroic hof (the week it unlocked) because fights were so predictable and easy to manage it was zero fun for me.

    Pvp. After so many years I am sick of looking at old bgs. This many years into wow blizzard should have 20 plus battlegrounds by now. Not to mention I was a rogue. They hit like wet paper till 5.1 and that put me off pvp for the whole expansion.

    Scenarios. They could have been SO much more then they are. What happened to the pop up event idea for them that scaled to how many players are around? Also I clearly remember they were ment to be for levelling. They are wasted being all level 90. Heroic scenarios should have been the 90 versions.

    Lore has been great but with the amount of money blizzard makes now days there is NO excuses for every single faction leader to get the development that say Lor'themar got this expansion. Eg shadow of the horde. It could have played out in game as well. Scenarios leading up to the battle then have the shado-pan and zandalari battle done in a new 5man.

    Dungeons. TO FUCKING FEW OF THEM! I wanted to cut my eyes out every time I got something like jade temple for the 100th time. And where the hell are the new ones. Tot and SoO should both come with 5mans as well. Tot should have had 2 and SoO should come with 3.

    Patches. 5.1. Was great. The lore, the battles and the world pvp. 5.2 was tuned WAY to hard for the beer league players which has wiped out almost every casual raiding guild. There is no need for normal to be so hard. Fuck hardcore raiders (which I was for a long long time). There is a reason they added heroics. How hard normal modes are shouldn't effect them. 5.3. I did 5.3 in under 2 hours. It shouldn't have even called a patch. Should have just been a random event blizzard SHOULD add from time to time.


    For the first time in wow since launch I was so bored I canceled my sub. I would be happy to play wow again if I wasn't bored shitless when I get on.
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  18. #378
    Upgrades! Blizz thinks an upgrade replaces a content patch...

  19. #379
    I think if Cata never existed and MoP was the following expansion after WotLK we might have seen a stable population, and possibly maybe even a bump. I blame the complete dullness of Cata for a lot of burn out. I understand the world needed a revamp and I enjoy the updated zones and streamlined questing, but they really should have added more to WotLK to give them proper time to develop a fully fleshed out expansion.

    I've sadly had to quit in MoP because of real life issues, but I miss the game a great deal. I think the company has been doing a great job with MoP and they're just fighting the bad after taste of Cata, personally.

    Can they recover? MAybe not to the extent of WotLK and TBC levels, but I think they will stabilize with a good amount of players.

  20. #380
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    I quit in early heroic progression of t14 because the raids were just terrible and I couldnt bare to be on. The daily grind, the raiding tier, the boredom was all too much. I came back and decided to go horde thinking the quest chains would be different and reinvigorate me. They werent.

    The quests through 85-90 are virtually the same.
    The cut in xp required meant that you hit 90 well before you finished questing (not fully unlocking areas on alts).
    Gearing up is quite easy but tedious.
    The dungeons are lackluster. In wotlk I loved running dungeons, they were all so exciting and fun as well as being quick. In MoP, I'm queued for 10 minutes for a quick zerg through that is almost not worth queuing for.
    The story is flimsy and average.
    brawlers is good but very easy to get through with gear. the difficulty should scale with gear. so for every ilvl you gain the boss gains x health and his attacks do y more damage.

    I think for the next xpac they need to come up with a few changes.

    -rep on alts should be significantly easier (granted, farming warbringers is a rapid way to get rep up on alts but it is very tedious and you dont do it on the character, you just send it to the character)
    -the dungeons need to go back to the basics, focus less on super challenging and weird mechanics and more on environment and bosses (by the end of the first tier, we zerg them all anyway).
    -pvp and pve need to be seperate entirely (what an ability does in pve should be tuned for pve and what that same ability does in pvp should be tuned for pvp). This gives us essentially two different specs to learn in the one spec. Playing pvp could be entirely different to playing pve, instead of basically the same and one wouldnt mess up the other making it either op nor up.
    -the story needs to be full of solid lore. I remember leveling 70-80 and even though I'd skip a lot of the quest text I'd still understand the flow of the leveling and what was going on in the zone. In MoP, I honestly dont know what happened in each zone to warrant me being there.
    -the first raid tier of the expansion (t17?) needs to focus less on number of bosses and more on immersion. I love how ToT is very ulduar-esque but its still quite linear. MSV was a really great place, but the bosses were dull and lifeless and the rooms off to the sides that you could go into held no secrets or even npcs they were just empty rooms.
    -tier gear needs to vary between horde and alliance in small visual ways. Different emphasizing colours, different visual procs etc. Same overall design but slightly different.
    -the horde and alliance story lines need to be vastly different and conflicting so leveling both isnt so much a chore as it is enjoyable.
    -there needs to be other ways to level and enjoy zones. Hidden npc's that older xpacs had. The rare vanity items were a step in the right direction but they really should reduce the spawn rate of the rares and make each one a 100% drop instead of 440 blue useless items).
    -we need to feel the impact of the final boss throughout the whole tier. there hasnt really been a connection between the final boss of the xpac and the first raid and i think it should happen. Instead of making the raids linear and the questing linear, make the entire xpac revolve around one final big bad boss and have us go through fighting to reach him spanning the different tiers. WoW is long past the point where you can chuck three unrelated raids in a tier and not join the dots properly. We need to experience the influence the final boss is having on every raid boss we fight. If its sargeras, then we need to fight our way through the front gate of the burning legion and through all his commanders and such and into his throne room or whatever. One raid tier spanning 3 actual gear tiers would be incredible. We could even have the same final boss for each tier tbh. We give him a bloody nose in the end of 1 tier and he escapes. Next tier we fight through whatever place he fled to to try again and he escapes again. Next tier we reach him and instead of escaping he is so mad that he enrages and fights us trying to wipe us out. Different abilities or even the same abilities just amped up each time.
    -more stuff needs to carry over to alts. I'd really like a faction wide multiple character gold access and bank. just for simplicity.

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