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  1. #461
    Mechagnome reemi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ateista View Post
    i still see 6.2 million people that are perfectly fine with this game. the rest complain about the most innate crap it's maddening. i'd rather them quit, than hear the blabber day in and day out in /2. i'm sorry, but the ones that do nothing but complain are not good for the community. so, i'll say again, good riddance.

    not to mention some of the things people complain about, whether i agree or disagree, come on?

    edit* a number.
    Never said it was the reasons why people left. Just saying what I hated from this expansion.

    Farming rep on my 10 level 90 is not something I enjoy, Wasting my time in heroic dungeon getting justice useless points I cannot use because I don't want to do dailies or quests is not something I enjoy.

    I do not like the story and graphic and it's just me maybe, but it very important to me. I understand we cant all be happy with that.

    Because there's 6.2 millions player don't mean they all like the game, this game is addictive and lot players can't leave. When more than 30% of the player leave it's not good usually, for the game, for Blizzard and for you, because without money this game will be worst.

    Not crying, but WoW is my favorite game of all time, and I feel like I need to boycott Blizzard till they understand I'm not happy. But I guess they won't care.
    Last edited by reemi; 2013-07-28 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #462
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    What I thought was very lacking, is that there was no direct threat to the world.

    In Cata, you had armies running about trying to beat eachother and Deathwing just about everywhere (With the exception of Uldum which was just some 'discovery' for the Indiana Jones crew)
    In BC, you had outposts fighting demons on their borders
    In Wrath, you had fucking undead and MASSIVE (See Warsong Hold) outposts fighting undead and other races loyal to Arthas all over the place.....

    In MoP, we have 2 large threats: The Mogu and Mantid. And what do they do? The Mantid have an army that sits idle basically slapping you in the face if you run into them. Why aren't they fighting the Klaxxi? Their air forces get shot down every time I fly to the Dread Wastes.

    The mogu, a nice big empire with an island that has fucking lightning striking down wherever Lei Shen wants, with an army in their courtyard. And just like that, Blood Elves and Kirin Tor stand on his doorstep as if he doesn't notice them. Where is the warcraft? Where is the direct confrontation? The only real Warcraft we get this expansion is in the Jade Forest in a cutscene, and in a raid which is called Siege of Orgrimmar.

    The most fun I had in the expansion, was in 5.1 where both factions had some decent lore involving one another. But now.... there is... Horde attacking Orgrimmar and Alliance pop out of nowhere to the rescue....
    Last edited by DrMcNinja; 2013-07-28 at 06:01 PM.

  3. #463
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ateista View Post
    i still see 6.2 million people that are perfectly fine with this game. the rest complain about the most innate crap it's maddening. i'd rather them quit, than hear the blabber day in and day out in /2. i'm sorry, but the ones that do nothing but complain are not good for the community. so, i'll say again, good riddance.

    not to mention some of the things people complain about, whether i agree or disagree, come on?

    edit* a number.
    If people's complaints about wow make you so angry, why would you come into a "what didn't work about this expansion" thread?
    Perhaps you would be happier in the "what worked" thread.

  4. #464
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The whole war thing is problematic anyway. Where are the armies? Where are the big battles? None of that is in the game, or realistically can be in the game. The engine does not support it. It's handled best if it's all kept off stage, where our imaginations can fill in the details that the game cannot.

    All the focus on the world, and on war, does is emphasize how much like Disneyland the whole environment is.
    In war their is consequence. It's hard to have meaningful consequence when the game is built on the framework of a persistent world. I mean they could change the old world all over again but that would just mean less raids right? The entire war ends up feeling so phony. Exactly like Disney world.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #465
    I feel way too much time/resources went into making LFR and LFD which means that there are less resources available for challenging questlines, 5-mans & heroics, raids of Ulduar quality.
    Zones are out-levelled and trivialised far too quickly and there is literally no difficulty to levelling, which means levelling is just a chore to be done as fast as possible instead of a challenging journey.
    I don't think Blizzard understands that back in TBC etc many people didn't raid because they didn't want to, not because there was no LFR.
    Last edited by Autumn; 2013-07-28 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #466
    Pit Lord Eliot123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    My list -

    1) Terrible gating. Do dailies for rep to buy items you've already got better than from 5 man HCs? Poor design. Epics were ok but again, gating that could only be got past by dailies. Capping the amount of rep per day but allowing multiple ways to get it would have been better.

    2) Too much to do. I've still not done all the challenge modes, even though I love that shit because it's too difficult for more casual players to organise AND get all the more mandatory stuff out of the way each week. Need to farm 50 coins, get the rep and the valor so not a liability for the raid and now I am free .... annnnnd it's tuesday ....start again. Previous expacs I've managed to get loremaster. I haven't even finished jade forest this time around, too much to do syndrome strikes again.

    3) Scenarios. Ok for telling a story, terrible as a repeatable playing experience. The heroics ones are alright though as you need to be awake for them.

    4) Ludicrously overtuned normal raids. T14 especially was utterly brutal, and after the near perfect difficulty spread of DS, nuked a lot of guilds and caused a lot of drama. Lets not even mention garalon. What the fuck were they thinking!

    5) Use of LFR to replace actual group content. LFR isn't a proper group playing experience, you are hardly ever going to meet anyone doing it. In LFR there is no way to shine as a player and no way to interact with anyone in order to make friends. It's great for seeing the content tho, so GJ there.

    6) Flight time isn't a playing experience. Having to fly around the world is an auto run engaged while watching youtube experience. They should knock it off already. Removing mass summon was just retarded. Busywork isn't engagement!

    7) Going back to the caaclysm mistake of catering to the super high end of the playerbase. Blizzard, old buddy, it doesn't matter what you put in front of the top tier raiding community, they will sit through it 24/7 and down it in no time anyway. All trying to tune stuff for specifically them does is exclude everyone else.

    Theres loads of positives tho
    I agree with all these points, basically.

    Would like to add one more - ridiculously insanely easy and boring heroic instances. I like doing heroics even when I far outgear them but the ones we have in MoP have been AoE faceroll since day one. There was never, ever any challenge, not even for like, a day.
    When in a hole, keep digging!

  7. #467
    High Overlord riccaz's Avatar
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    One of my favorite things in wrath and cata was the last tier 5man that they added. i loved those dungeons and they were awesome to gear up new alts, and it makes me kinda sad that instead of adding more heroics they focus on scenarios which might just be the most lame thing in the history of gaming.

  8. #468
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
    I feel way too much time/resources went into making LFR and LFD which means that there are less resources available for challenging questlines, 5-mans & heroics, raids of Ulduar quality.
    Zones are out-levelled and trivialised far too quickly and there is literally no difficulty to levelling, which means levelling is just a chore to be done as fast as possible instead of a challenging journey.
    I don't think Blizzard understands that back in TBC etc many people didn't raid because they didn't want to, not because there was no LFR.
    And in TBC there wasn't the gear treadmill, at least not to the same extend as these days. Gear wasn't something 'you had to have' in order to do something like a simple raid or a 5-man Heroic. These days for example, people DEMAND gear at raiding levels in order to do a Heroic scenario, which is accessible at a much lower ilvl.

  9. #469
    The issue is it's too casual (I wouldn't even call it casual more like it's too mindless) not that there is too much to do. You do not have to grind rep anymore at all. You can go straight from 90 to scenarios and dungeons to LFR with boss fights that have no mechanics or ones that can be ignored.

    For the most part you can do very little damage and play poorly with no feedback from anyone in any run as to if you're bad or good.

    The only time you will face any kind of backlash is if you wipe a few times in LFR when the frustration of wiping overcomes the extreme apathy of everyone involved.

    You can see the end boss Lei Shen within a short amount of time with little effort. You can get 4 pieces and all the gear you want to deal with every single mob in the game easily with little effort.

    10mans + shared lock out + LFR + LFD (to some extent) ruined this game.

    What keeps new players interested?
    What keeps returning players interested?

    The answer absolutely nothing. I used to go onto my server and see 3 or more pug groups running during wrath for 25man and especially GDKP runs now trade is trolling.

  10. #470
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klmg8 View Post
    The issue is it's too casual (I wouldn't even call it casual more like it's too mindless) not that there is too much to do.
    Not relative to cataclysm or wotlk it isn't. It's far to casual unfriendly. You people seem to think seeing lei shen is some huge game changing event and if people were denied access to him they'd just continue to sub for the award winning story? I don't get it. Honest. People stuck around in WoTLK and farmed icc for a year. Finishing a raid obviously doesn't mean the end of it's use otherwise this game wouldn't work.

    What keeps new players interested? The same thing that did before. Character progression which has been made VERY uncasual friendly this expansion
    What keeps returning players interested? The same thing as above.

    What turns both groups off? No catch up, rep grinds, shitty valor gains, Being shoved into lfr, very alt unfriendly, all the uncasual friendly crap they did in this game. It's not hard to see why casuals weren't engaged. Their is little in mists that engages them either from a difficulty stand point (normal raids are far to prohibitive) or just form a time consuming stand point. ICC and 4.3 were far more casual friendly.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #471
    Nothing worked out except for the above average raid quality and the amount of bosses in them. Everything else screamed like a "leap expansion" for me. The theme and the lack of the threat to the world, as one above poster also mentioned, stand out as main reasons why its a huge flop.

    Also, just because 7.7m people still play it, doesnt mean they like the game. They are hoping for better times while succumbing to LFR grinds against their own will because of the time they have put in the game and the addiction.

    They need a revolution and something COMPLETELY game-changing. So far the changes implemented have either been extremely populist and accessibility-oriented or outright conservative, as if they were hesitant to add some groundbreaking changes to the game.

    Number 1 reason for my quitting though is the community. It has become rotten and self-destructive. Some people (in this thread even!) have even defended the notion of WoW needing to be more single-player oriented than a game which encourages spontaneous grouping with strangers in the world and working their way around obstacles. It used to be just that though. At least to an overwhelming degree.

  12. #472
    I know what didn't work for me:

    Same old, same old. Been there, done that.

    Fealing like I have no goals left inn the game etc.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  13. #473
    1) Scenarios should be solo experiences for story, not group content.

    2) LFR should drop last tier normal ilevel. People should not feel compelled to run LFR every week for upgrades if they run normal.

    3) Need more 5-man's. They should also be a bit harder. Not everything should be so easy that any and every group that attempts them can faceroll through it.

    4) Need more coherent & better story telling. The story in MoP is awful, terrible, garbage nonsense. 2 minutes of lead-up for Lei Shen is ridiculous. Still couldn't explain WTF we're supposed to be doing in half of the 5-man dungeons.

    5) Justice & Valor Points need to be reworked and detached from dailies & all of that time sink bullshit.

    6) Less brain-dead design decisions (largely concerning talent trees, how specs play & PvP "balance").

    7) Normal mode raids need to be better tuned & have better progressive difficulty curves. The difficulty in T14 & T15 has been all over the place.

    8) Pandaren. 'Nuff said.

    9) Too much of the same old shit. Need more crafting fun stuff like armor dyes and whatever. More choices. More character progression stuff.
    Last edited by xixixviixiiii; 2013-07-28 at 06:45 PM.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Not relative to cataclysm or wotlk it isn't. It's far to casual unfriendly. You people seem to think seeing lei shen is some huge game changing event and if people were denied access to him they'd just continue to sub for the award winning story? I don't get it. Honest. People stuck around in WoTLK and farmed icc for a year. Finishing a raid obviously doesn't mean the end of it's use otherwise this game wouldn't work.

    What keeps new players interested? The same thing that did before. Character progression which has been made VERY uncasual friendly this expansion
    What keeps returning players interested? The same thing as above.

    What turns both groups off? No catch up, rep grinds, shitty valor gains, Being shoved into lfr, very alt unfriendly, all the uncasual friendly crap they did in this game. It's not hard to see why casuals weren't engaged. Their is little in mists that engages them either from a difficulty stand point (normal raids are far to prohibitive) or just form a time consuming stand point. ICC and 4.3 were far more casual friendly.
    Your comments are so out of touch with the current state of the game it makes me wonder if you even play it anymore.

    Character progression is over in a few weeks you can get everything you want from LFR and see all the content in about a month. With no effort at all. Don't sit there and tell me that LFR is not mindless. There is no need to grind rep unless you are a perfectionist or have OCD. I am leveling an alt right now. Hit 90 > Scenarios/Quest items > Heroic Dungeons > LFR > all content > all gear minus a few ilevels.

    You have to be shoved into LFR there are no pugs anymore. 10man shared lock outs and LFR killed them. Normals are the same difficultly they have always been I suppose you just want LFR to change it's name to normal and then you'll be happy. The problem is this game is to mindless. You can complete character progression and seeing all the content easily not even trying.
    Last edited by klmg8; 2013-07-28 at 06:51 PM.

  15. #475
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klmg8 View Post
    Your comments are so out of touch with the current state of the game it makes me wonder if you even play it anymore.

    Character progression is over in a few weeks you can get everything you want from LFR and see all the content in about a month. With no effort at all. Don't sit there and tell me that LFR is not mindless. There is no need to grind rep unless you are a perfectionist or have OCD. I am leveling an alt right now. Hit 90 > Scenarios/Quest items > Heroic Dungeons > LFR > all content > all gear minus a few ilevels.
    It's not over in a few weeks if you only play say 3-4 hours a week. That's basically one lfr run and lfr doesn't pay out for shit, at least not like dungeons used to. It being mindless or not isn't the issue. The rep grind is now associated with valor items. I think people on this forum are so far removed from what actual casual players play that they actually have no fucking concept of how much time people can invest in this game. You investing 15+ hours a week is one thing. The guy who actually plays casual gets jack shit out of this game now in the interest of giving you more to do.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #476
    What did not Work in This expansion. That Alliance Ones agian Got Dip shit of lore. At blizzcon They said The Trial of the high king would lead to a " fist pumping awesome moment" And what did we get? Velen, who was supost to heal Audrion got lost or crashed on a new planet. Dwarf lore? They do not trust eachother, oh the dark iron dwarfs is good, now we are all broes" Gnomes and Worgen, nope, hardly seen really. Audrin got some, that his a " rebel" wanting to do the good thing. all lore about varian is " oh before he was a bit brute, but now he is a cool and good guy". Night elf lore? They clearly do not like to wait. And ofc The only Real thing that happen to alliance was Jaina.

    Please tell me where the "fist pumping moment" in trial of the high king? Was it when moria said" fine you guys do not trust us, we will go kill the trolls" or was it when Tyrande did not want to wait any longer?
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    My list -

    1) Terrible gating. Do dailies for rep to buy items you've already got better than from 5 man HCs? Poor design. Epics were ok but again, gating that could only be got past by dailies. Capping the amount of rep per day but allowing multiple ways to get it would have been better.

    2) Too much to do. I've still not done all the challenge modes, even though I love that shit because it's too difficult for more casual players to organise AND get all the more mandatory stuff out of the way each week. Need to farm 50 coins, get the rep and the valor so not a liability for the raid and now I am free .... annnnnd it's tuesday ....start again. Previous expacs I've managed to get loremaster. I haven't even finished jade forest this time around, too much to do syndrome strikes again.

    3) Scenarios. Ok for telling a story, terrible as a repeatable playing experience. The heroics ones are alright though as you need to be awake for them.

    4) Ludicrously overtuned normal raids. T14 especially was utterly brutal, and after the near perfect difficulty spread of DS, nuked a lot of guilds and caused a lot of drama. Lets not even mention garalon. What the fuck were they thinking!

    5) Use of LFR to replace actual group content. LFR isn't a proper group playing experience, you are hardly ever going to meet anyone doing it. In LFR there is no way to shine as a player and no way to interact with anyone in order to make friends. It's great for seeing the content tho, so GJ there.

    6) Flight time isn't a playing experience. Having to fly around the world is an auto run engaged while watching youtube experience. They should knock it off already. Removing mass summon was just retarded. Busywork isn't engagement!

    7) Going back to the caaclysm mistake of catering to the super high end of the playerbase. Blizzard, old buddy, it doesn't matter what you put in front of the top tier raiding community, they will sit through it 24/7 and down it in no time anyway. All trying to tune stuff for specifically them does is exclude everyone else.

    Theres loads of positives tho
    That + 8) The death of so many servers. Honestly my server has been dead since release, only 2 guilds still raid and it's seriously awful.
    Also, please don't bring the paid transfer into equation, I'm not supposed to pay for a transfer simply because blizzard won't want to merge them. Cross-realm doesn't fix the raiding problem.

    9) The community was ripped to shreds, press 1 button-enter lfr-finish lfr-log off. I seriously miss having to search for groups in /trade and actually make friends.
    Coming to think of it, another trend I've noticed nowadays is that NOBODY even talks in LFG, thing which didn't happen in Wotlk and to a lesser extent in Cata.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Man, I would absolutely love a source for such a claim. Or are you just making it up to try to bolster your point as every other MoP hater seems to do?
    Pandaren are the least played race on both factions, at least in the US. (I didn't look at EU stats.)

    http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html

    You'd think that if people found them interesting, they would play them more.
    Ornasse Evershade, Sage of the Seven Pines | Tsi Ku | Healing WoW since 2006
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  19. #479
    For me...

    1) Dailies. I actually like dailies and did the firelands dailies on 9 characters. They were fast, gave some nice gear and fluff rewards every week and a nice mount at the end. In comparison the MoP dailies took a really long time to do (at least the 5.0 and 5.2 ones) and gave next to no rewards since they only unlocked valor gear. I really hate that, dailies, at least for me, were always a nice way to gear up alts. Thats a lot more annoying and unrewarding in MoP since even at exalted you can not buy one single piece of gear if you don't grind valor in dungeons.
    This and the stupid gating with the Golden Lotus dailies that were really atrocious and unfunny to do.
    5.1 dailies were cool though since they were quickly done and had a motivating story part every two or three days.

    2) Scenarios. I really had hope for them but as it was said several times, they should have been solo content. And if you expect me to repeat content again and again then you better give me some rewards for it. Until today i didn't get a single piece of loot from a scenario, normal and heroic. That really doesn't motivate me to do them anymore.

    3) The Monk class. While a nice idea (at least as a dd) is has not a single noteworthy or cool-looking ability. It just feels lackluster to play, it doesn't stand out in any way or form. I have not had a single "I wish i were a monk now" moment.

    4) Battlefield Barrens. God is this boring. I really hope they drop that concept.

    5) 5er dungeons. Really disappointed that they don't do them anymore.

    6) Orgrimmar Raid. After they raided Undercity do we really need to raid another Horde capital ? Can't we have a raid in an alliance capital for a change ?

    7) Lack of strong Characters. After all the buildup the Empress of the Mantid was really disappointing. And Lei Shen is as generic as a baddie can be. "He's really evil and powerful, kill him for great loots!". I love the Sha though. Same with the friendly guys. Why isn't Chen featured more ? Shouldn't that be his expansion ? He had a few quests while leveling but after that he just stands around in the background.

    8) Abandoning Pandaria in 5.2. I think there were a lot of stories still untold in Pandaria but first we got send to some random island, then into the barrens and to Orgrimmar. Have they lost the faith in their own setting ?

    9) Optics. This is supposed to be an asian-themed expansion. Would it be to much to churn out a few asian-looking armor sets and weapons ? I'd like to have a Samurai or ninja or chinese armore but the only gear with those looks came from the questing gear. Aside from that all the sets look the same to me. If you'd show me a picture of a MoP Set armor of a class i don't play i really wouldn't be able to say what tier it is. That never happened before.

    But still, in the end i really liked the Expansion, after WotLK it's the best for me and i played them all.

  20. #480
    Let's see.. what didn't work.

    You level an alt to 90, you gear him in pvp gear and do a few first grinds to get some free epics from questing (502 boots, 476 belt). Then you go kill rares to get a key for charms.. then you do LFR.. and, you're done for the week with nothing else to do because it's a weekly reset.

    Plus, I'm not really interested in raiding the same instance 5 times a week with random strangers, there is absolutely no fun in that. LFR made previous content pretty much useless, so unlike in WOTLK when we were raiding Ulduar, not going to do Naxx on alts for fun, because LFR drops better loot.

    Hopefully Flex fixes that, but yes, this expansion, I had zero desire to play alts once they are geared for LFR.

    Before there was nothing to do when your main was valor capped from raid, now they added all this extra crap we have to do, valor, charms, food, etc, so when your playstyle was having fun with alts when you were not raiding.. you pretty much got screwed this expansion.

    The daily grind didn't attract me at all, I still didn't get past honored with Shado-Pan and August Celestials, and never touched Anglers.. all people I know that did all those at the start got burned out and stopped playing. That pretty much killed my raiding guild, people didn't have time to do all that crap and instead of being competitive, we lost people.

    Also, it's not specifically this expansion, but having to do the bosses in 3 difficulty levels, makes you bored of the raiding really fast. I kind of miss the good old days where you had 12 bosses with increasing progression instead of 12, then do it again but harder. I still feel the Ulduar model was better.
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2013-07-28 at 10:05 PM.

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