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  1. #61
    Pit Lord Mehman's Avatar
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    I didn't like having to gear up alts though LFR.

  2. #62
    Some problems as I see them:

    1) Grind. They greatly reduced the rate of VP acquisition (probably to force people to "get out into the world".) And that legendary quest chain!

    2) Casual guilds have very little reason to exist.

    3) The worst thing a storyteller can hear: "I don't care about any of your characters."

    4) Gap between LFR and normal was too big. This was a big part of the cause of 2.

    5) Casual PvP seems to have taken a big hit. I blame the near worthlessness of honor points once you've bought all the honor gear you need (unless you're an enchanter); also, faction imbalance seems to have gone over some threshold of tolerability.

    6) New mechanics introduced (pet battles, scenarios) were not compelling (although your mileage may vary.)

    Going forward, the large number of ex-players is going to be a drag on the game. Early on, if a prospective player asked friends about WoW, they'd either get "yeah, I'm playing it on XYZ server, why don't you join me?" or "I haven't tried it yet." Now, they're more likely to get "I used to play it, but I stopped because ...", which is much less likely to get someone to sign up.

    Oh, and one thing that REALLY creeped me out:

    7) Pandarian children
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-07-27 at 02:58 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #63
    I think some people may be onto something about the story as well, though not because "it's Asian and has Pandas". As mentioned previously, I've wanted Pandaren for years and I find Asian themes as interesting as any other, but even I had a problem with the story and setting. For all the reasons the naysayers were wrong, I feel like a few things slipped through somehow anyway.

    I think a huge problem is just how isolated Pandaria was. Yes, it is significant to the plot, but I don't think it worked. First of all, it meant that Pandaria was accentuated as something inherently different, when it shouldn't have needed to be (considering how many cultures Warcraft already borrows from). Then, the fact that the only interaction between Pandaria and everything else we know happened far in the past, means that there was little for us to relate to in the context of Warcraft. This got worse, however, in that I feel Blizzard failed to integrate Pandaria after our arrival as well. In other words, the problem wasn't that the theme was Asian, the problem was that the theme was treated as out of place even in universe.

    The Pandaren don't feel like another anthropomorphic Warcraft race. Even the Pandaren that join the factions don't feel like they fit, especially the Horde ones. How any Pandaren thought joining Garrosh's Horde was a good idea baffles me. They feel like a bunch of fourth wall-breaking, impartial judges referencing the implications of the war and stuff, instead of being, you know, a race that lives on Azeroth like everyone else. I agree that the Alliance and Horde shouldn't have to be fighting, but it means that the Pandaren never feel like they're part of the larger world, but are instead some kind of weird observers, even as we're doing quests to save their land. Again, in the context of the story, it has its justifications, but it only served to make them stand out, instead of fit in, and it really doesn't make sense once we start interfering.

    Then there was the whole joke race controversy which... well, they were spawned from a joke, then Blizzard developed them in supplemental material... then comes Mists of Pandaria and... well, honestly I see them as a joke race. We just came off an expansion where we saw the end of the world, and narrowly averted it. What do we do next? Well, we start out by running headfirst into a terrible war. Okay, that's fine. But then the war gets put on pause while we wait for the rest of the fleet. Then... well, we kinda just go on vacation, helping the locals. The Sha are a threat, but most zones aren't really about urgently needing to stop them. In fact, there's almost an entire zone dedicated to helping farmers (one of whom is an over-the-top stereotype) make beer and chase off rabbits. Now, there's nothing wrong with a breather zone in a serious conflict, but only the very beginning and very end ever felt anywhere close to serious (and both are almost completely devoid of Pandaren).

    Then they really bumbled with the Alliance and Horde war. I missed a lot of the details, but I do know a couple of things. Downgrading Varian's trials to a couple of Scenarios that paint him as already awesome and having to teach the other leaders was a bad move. Making the Alliance's half of the rebellion involving a robotic cat instead of, you know, the espionage race that has a vendetta against Garrosh and lives right next door, was really sloppy.

    Finally, I remember something they said about Mists of Pandaria was that they were going to spend time seeding new characters for the future, instead of just killing off existing characters, but... who did they really introduce? High profile ones like Malkorok are getting killed anyway. There's quite a few important Pandaren, but, it would seem weird if every important character from now on is a Pandaren, especially with how poorly they've integrated them into the Warcraft universe and the factions so far.
    Last edited by Jokubas; 2013-07-27 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #64
    High Overlord
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    I have to say MoP is the easiest one to level an alt on, at least since they changed the XP requirement. I got 5 alts from 80-90 in 2 weeks, only playing 2-3 hours a day. On my DK which I spent the most time after 90 on, took 2 days to get to 480 ilvl. Not sure if I am just lucky or what but it seems very easy to level and gear an alt now, and dailies really aren't needed on an alt imo.

    As far as what I think didn't work, number 1 is the lack of dungeons, while I do enjoy heroic scenarios, I think it was very lazy for Blizzard to stop designing new 5 man content. Raid Finder is a very unpleasant experience and should not be the primary gear up method.
    Last edited by Hyperspeed; 2013-07-27 at 02:07 PM.

  5. #65
    If I am really honest, it was 'ok' for a day or two but I was just bored to tears after that. Really kept thinking it would get better and it didn't, got much worse. And then don't even talk about the alts.

    Didn't feel like fun. But the damage was done in Cata for me. I left the game and came back a week before MOP and all my guild quit the week before after playing beta and saying the expansion was absolutely terrible. Haven't seen them since and they all started in week one Vanilla.

    People could come back but this Blizzcon better be the second coming..

  6. #66
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    One of the problems, as has already been stated in this thread, is the LFG system. Even though it is very convenient to get into dungeons with it, it completely obliterates any semblance of community within the game. Back in WOTLK I actually had a list of people I had previously grouped with and found them to be very experienced and reliable players and would therefore ask them when guildies werent available or recommend them to somebody who was struggling to form a group. I think sacrificing a little commodity would be warranted here, because the community is struggling!

    And last but by no means least - it prevents Blizzard from introducing challenging 5 man content that drops loot because random, unorganized groups cannot handle it.

  7. #67
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Tolkien wrote high fantasy. World of Warcraft is high fantasy. So... yeah.

    Or at least, the two worlds felt much closer in Wrath which had IMO the best lore.
    You'll never have wrath lore again because Arthas is dead, the end.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  8. #68
    The three night a week raiding demands were too much.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    You'll never have wrath lore again because Arthas is dead, the end.
    No shit Sherlock.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurf View Post
    It wasn't so alt friendly as for example wrath/cata was ^^
    I would rather have too much to do to level alts than not have enough to go that I can level 4 alts like I did in cata.

  11. #71
    Most of what I disliked is that a lot of features either require a huge time commitment[1], or are implemented in a way that makes them hard to access for a lot of players and they are forced to wait[2]

    [1]Mists of Pandaria introduced hundreds of awesome new Quests and content which were cool, but the problem is that there are thousands of new Quests in Pandaria which in turn means that you have to play through thousands of boring Quests to get to the good ones. The moment in Jade Forest where you see a nice battle cutscene, following by one of your first Cloud Serpent Riding quest to fight a giant Sha Boss is amazing for example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoXqOnoc3pw
    but you have to spend dozens of hours on Quests/Dungeons of killing little and medium-sized sha throughout the game which gets old eventually.
    The Quests were an Example but the time-commitment was increased for almost anything from crafted Mounts (Cata you earned ~~17g for a daily Quest and the Vendor Mats cost for Vial of Sands was 24000 while in Mists you earn ~~20g for a daily quest and the Vendor mats cost for an Engineering Rocket is 60 000, or 80 000 for the luxury JC Mout). For good Stats food in Cata you needed one Ingredient, for good Stats food in Mists you need four. Best food Food was 8-11g on AH in Cata, so you can afford up to 2 Raid Food from one daily, in Mists it costs 38-60g on AH so you either buy bad food or you do 2 daily Quests for each time you wipe on Raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I would rather have too much to do to level alts than not have enough to go that I can level 4 alts like I did in cata.
    There is more to do in Mists than in Cata but some stuff, like in 5.0 where you got 60 Valor for your first Dungeon and 30 for each Dungeon beyond that, you had to run 32 Dungeons to get Valor capped (as opposed to 8 in Cata) is not more to do, it's the same stuff giving fewer rewards.



    [2]A lot of cool stuff introcuded like the Brawler's Guild, Warlock Green Fire or Raid bosses are hard to access when they come out. Ghostcrawler even twittered that 5.0 Normal Raidbosses were designed with players having Valor Gear and upgrades in mind, and for stuff like the Brawler's guild access you had to either wait some months(!) or spend a lot of gold. And there are artificlal queue times (for Solo Content ! !) to drain your time even after you gained access. And did anyone forget how you had to camp for hours and spam AoE on the Ground trying to tag Galleon, and then try again in 2-3 Days if one of the four other Groups got the Tag instead?
    Last edited by Fincher; 2013-07-27 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I would rather have too much to do to level alts than not have enough to go that I can level 4 alts like I did in cata.
    I'm leveling alts now anyway.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    I think the theme of MoP has contributed somewhat, I'm not denying that pandaria is an incredibly beautiful and well designed world with rich lore and characters, but it's just not what alot of people were looking for in WoW, myself included, I just don't feel as interested in pandaria as I have in past expansions, not enough for me to quit, but perhaps it bothers other people more than me.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    One of the problems, as has already been stated in this thread, is the LFG system. Even though it is very convenient to get into dungeons with it, it completely obliterates any semblance of community within the game. Back in WOTLK I actually had a list of people I had previously grouped with and found them to be very experienced and reliable players and would therefore ask them when guildies werent available or recommend them to somebody who was struggling to form a group. I think sacrificing a little commodity would be warranted here, because the community is struggling!

    And last but by no means least - it prevents Blizzard from introducing challenging 5 man content that drops loot because random, unorganized groups cannot handle it.
    Nothing is stopping you from getting to know people on your server, making a desirable list of people to dungeon with and then queueing up instantly with them with LFG except that blizzard isn't forcing you to do it. The only reason the community aspect suffers is because people are not forced to socialize and so they don't.

  15. #75
    WOW xpac life span was somthing everyone was accustomed too, changing it now in an obvious attempt to attract younger players into the game was a crutial decision which didnt work.

    the features of this xpac , the race the class, the trailer...were all kong fu panda heavily inspired, if you cant agree with that stop reading and move on please.

    - for the first time we see blizz new cinematic of the new class/race putting to shame not 1 but 2 warriors of both sides using a wooden stick while chewing a straw? , it all reeked of a bad cartoon comedy, and this bad comedy doesnt end there.
    - the talking zoo all over pandaria , monkeys fish..you name it.
    - farming , as itself it was nice to grow your own farm but setting a complete zone just for helping pandarens with thier farms and rodents, rabbits stealing vegetables etc is stupid and not funny.
    - the monk class, even though this is a fantasy game , its based on logic, there is only that much of bending the logic rules to try to come up with somthing new but if you bend it too much no one will accept it, how could they come up with a class that needs to be drunk in order to tank and uses only his feet and hands when up untill now tanks had to use plate (druids being the only exception but they dont tank as is, they transform into giant dire bears which is plausible) some use shields some done but dont tell me that all you need to do now to become a tank is to have a drink and fight your enemies only with your hands and feet with fancy stupid looking moves...it worked in "the drunken master" movie but not here...how would they tank ragnaros a 100% fire giant boss?? with kong fu?
    - talks on being obese and drunk is actualy a good thing in pandaria and they are all over the land which is to me sounds like some kind of a sick joke....
    - no plot what so ever, ali and horde were in war since 1992 , there will never be a winner or a loser , its pointless to give it to us as a patch or xpac plot..
    - lei shen...how is he? a resurrected stolen corps by the trolls when you level up and then you kill him again by the time the next raid is out? pointless...
    - garrosh hellscream, in cata he was depicted as the right leader , tough outside but had the right stuff at heart ( as sarufang taught him) and now out of nothing they made him the crazy guy we need to put down? disappointing....

    im not gonna talk about everything being locked behind dailys...this xpac has nothing to offer to the players who been playing this since 2004 they didnt want kong fu panda xpac, they wanted lore themed xpac with azshara , sargeras , titans and old gods..it was a bad call by blizz to take all the then 9M subs and give them a ticket to panda land so they maybe gain another 3M new players who did actualy grow on kong fu movies

  16. #76
    having to gear alts thru raidfinder RNG is just retarded and makes me not want to play. and they double down on it by making a super mundane 'legendary' which is required to perform at any reasonable capacity.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by john duo View Post
    the features of this xpac , the race the class, the trailer...were all kong fu panda heavily inspired, if you cant agree with that stop reading and move on please.
    Pandaren have been in the franchise since Warcraft 3, they are Warcraft inspired
    Pandaren have been in the franchise since Warcraft 3, they are Warcraft inspired
    Pandaren have been in the franchise since Warcraft 3, they are Warcraft inspired
    Pandaren have been in the franchise since Warcraft 3, they are Warcraft inspired
    Pandaren have been in the franchise since Warcraft 3, they are Warcraft inspired

    Pandaren have been
    in the franchise
    since Warcraft 3
    they are Warcraft inspired

  18. #78
    This is what I'm seeing myself, in my guild and on my server:

    Heroics
    They're a complete waste of time. You can almost completely bypass them with crafted items, the boots from Sha / quest chain, etc. No new ones have been introduced with improved drops, so they're for VPs only. In TBC, Wrath & Cata, harder instances with better drops were added during the patches, so people still did them. In MoP I've not run a Heroic in months. As soon as my char can run LFR, heroics go out the window.

    Normal Raiding
    I see a lot of people complaining they're too hard. There's a lot of social guilds on my server which struggle to complete them. On the flip side other peoples' attitudes seem to be "Well join a raiding guild or do LFR then!". Trouble with that is a number of people have no interest in raiding unless it's with friends, and LFR .. well see below.

    LFR
    I like the idea, but the player base can make this really painful! By way of example I did Forgotten Depths the other day as a healer. We wiped 5-6 times on the trash to Magaera because some muppets kept pulling adds. That used to happen a lot in one of the HoF LFR raids too. People who refuse to participate, who refuse to play the role they've signed up as, who do everything they can to cause wipes ... these are far too common, and can make LFR bloody awful.

    The drop system is also pretty horrible. Occasionally you'll meet people who get really lucky and gear up very quickly. Far more common however, are the people who just don't get drops for ages, or keep getting the same slots. For example my Paladin's first LFR drop was a helm. So was the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 11th. He never got more than 1 drop/week; in fact I think those 11 drops have taken about 16 weeks so far.

    On the plus side I'm really looking forward to Flex raids. If my guild can manage enough people each week I'll drop LFR if I can.

    Dailies
    Enough people have brought this up before, they're not fun and they shouldn't block anything. Personally I've previously hated dailies, whereas this time I didn't mind them too much (except Golden Lotus, bloody hell!). I stopped each faction as soon as it was exalted, though.

    Justice Points
    These are completely, utterly worthless. The single best thing you can do is convert them to Honor. How about actually giving us something to spend them on, or just removing them completely?

    Valley of the Four Winds
    Wow, that zone sucks!! I did it on my main, just to see it and get the achieves, but all of my alts avoided it completely.

    --

    These are my main griped with Mists of Pandaria. Overall I've quite enjoyed it. I must admit I've only just started playing again after a break of a couple of months. I stopped shortly after ToT came out - I enjoyed it, but just didn't feel like running it. Simply burned out for a bit, I think.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by john duo View Post
    the features of this xpac , the race the class, the trailer...were all kong fu panda heavily inspired, if you cant agree with that stop reading and move on please.
    Is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing but simple facts state that after their Panda April Fools' Joke in 2002 Blizzard introduced and actual Pandaren Hero in 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraf..._Frozen_Throne and he already had his clothing, Drunken Bawler Style, and was having a Keg and the Staff you see him fighting with in the 2012 Pandaria Rendered cinematic. The Pandaren are therefor Blizzard's own Idea and cannot originate from a 2008 Movie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_fu_panda

    I do understand that players who don't know may think otherwise though, and that the association with being based on a more or less silly Kids Movie might have played a part in Mists not selling an overwhelming amount of copies.


    Another one of my biggest concerns: PvE Players being forced to do PvP and vice-versa.
    PvP Gear is amazing, actually Best in Slot for starting out in PvE. At Mists Launch Raids were closes so the best way to get PvE Gear was playing Arenas and purchasing conquest Items. Heck, even some Honor Items like Hunter Gloves could increase DPS more than their HEroic Dungeon counterparts.

    On the other Side, some PvE Set Bonusses , high ilvl and Itemsockets, aswell as heroic (or even Normal/Valor) PvE Trinkets and items were on par or even superior than PvP Items for doing PvP. So do defeat other player you need not necessarily be a better PvP Skills, but better PvE skills to get the best gear. Right now with ilvl cap in instanced PvP it's better but at the same time PvE Gear is vastly superior to their PvP-Counterparts in the outside world.
    Last edited by Fincher; 2013-07-27 at 02:55 PM.

  20. #80
    For me personally, and I feel most of these apply to a lot of other peeps;



    What comes to mind immediately,

    Didn't like:

    - The lack of established Lore (compared to BC/Wotlk at least)

    - Increasing misguided accessibility push, getting silly now

    - Absolutely mindless "heroics"

    - Clear that LFR is here to stay and deciding not to keep it a tier behind

    - Even less of a server community if that's possible (CRZ, Virtual) and refusal to offer free transfers / faction changes to actual good servers or merging realms

    - The atmosphere of Pandaria was terrible for me, at least at times

    - Strange push towards making the cash shop more relevant

    - Classes fusing together (buffs, debuffs, spells)

    - Broken guild leveling system still here

    - Terrible 85 - 90 leveling experience

    Post 5.4:

    I don't expect proving grounds will do well, they make no sense to me

    BONUS! (Yay)

    Did like:

    - Warlock class quest, what an amazing fight

    - I didn't raid much in MoP, and only got to experience 2 heroic bosses in ToT at the start of 5.2, but for me (and a lot of others I hear) ToT was the best raid since Ulduar

    - Challenge modes are BRILLIANT! Although I would prefer a ~similar difficulty for heroic dungeons, just without the timer obviously

    - The Rare mobs are challenging, at least they were on release and have a chance to drop some really cool vanity stuff

    - Some quests rewarded you with (again) some cool vanity items

    Could think of a lot more positives, but that's not what you were asking for anyway!
    Last edited by Etrigan; 2013-07-27 at 02:46 PM.

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