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  1. #1
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    So, what didn't work this expansion?

    So, as we know the news of the sub decline is all over the place now and endless throwing of words ensues from it.

    But, lets talk here about what, seriously, happened in mists that caused such a decline. According to the charter shown on the other thread, well the decline in cata had begun, it did infact stabilize itself near the end of it, and it seemed to keep to a cool 10m players.
    Mists has dropped it down to over 2m more players since cata, which you'd think would be a massive wake up call for the developers to look hard at the product.

    So rather then mixing it into another thread based on 'omg 7.7 subs wow is dying', I'd like to simply ask what people think happened in mists that caused such a surge of losses in such a short space of time.

    Myself, I think its a knock on effect from several reasons. As cata already had an obvious leak, whatever they did in mists didn't stop the leak, and infact only seemed to make the hole bigger. In cata, the complaints seemed to be things like not enough endgame content to do, there heroic dungeons were to hard, there were not enough zones and it was all spread out, and so on.

    However, despite blizzard addressing certain issues said in cata, like giving more things to do outside of raiding in mists, and more reason to return to previous zones, and even something like throne of thunder, it still wasn't enough to stop the leak. Myself, I actually enjoyed mists a lot more then cata and its content. The raiding wasn't as exciting as cata, but raiding is only a small portion of the game overall.

    My belief is, on several points:

    - The endgame in mists, well it was fun enough the first time around, it was excruciating to repeat it on an alt. Even with things like rep buffs, having to do all those dailies in alts again after you did them on your main, it was to much. I believe the tabard system in wrath was always the best system, since it was good for mains and alts.

    - The replay value of wow just doesn't have that replay value it once did. It seems strange saying this now since it would have applied to cata too, but given how its been over three years since cata, and the massive changes they made to vanilla wow, one of the biggest complaints about cata was how lineal the game had become. I honestly have no motivation to level alts anymore because of how boring it is, which ironically fits into what I just said about the daily grind.

    I think, what blizzard seems to not understand, is how one of the biggest contributing factors of keeping players hooked on there game, is the reply value, as it is with any game. Alts are the reply value for wow, because once you've done something on your main you can't replay it. So, in what they've done with cata, and with mists, people simply don't want to play on other characters. They don't have anything to work towards on them because achievements are now account wide, so.. there i literally nothing to do outside of your main. and once you've done it on that, most would probably agree they'd sooner do the new content, not bother with alts, cancel sub until the next content patch, and then repeat.

    Anyway, thats my two cent. Unless blizzard finds a way of giving replay value to there gamers and give them reason to play other characters, to have a goal to work towards on them.. this is how it will be.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Gnurf's Avatar
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    It wasn't so alt friendly as for example wrath/cata was ^^

  3. #3
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurf View Post
    It wasn't so alt friendly as for example wrath/cata was ^^
    kinda said what i said in one line, but glad others see it.

  4. #4
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurf View Post
    It wasn't so alt friendly as for example wrath/cata was ^^
    I agree, I am loving MoP, but finding it hard to get myself interested in levelling my alts, I find I have too much to do on my main for the amount of time I have to play. That isn't in itself a bad thing, having too much to do is generally good, but I also miss having the time to beable to sink into my alts too.

  5. #5
    i cant see anything bad with it really ... i have lvled more alts then ever succesfully to level 90 i have had alot of lore and endgame to the point that iam never bored or fully out of things to do and if i was not a raider in tbc i would have with ease said mop was the best expansion yet and will probaly say so when last patch comes out.

  6. #6
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    I agree, I am loving MoP, but finding it hard to get myself interested in levelling my alts, I find I have too much to do on my main for the amount of time I have to play. That isn't in itself a bad thing, having too much to do is generally good, but I also miss having the time to beable to sink into my alts too.
    I love my main but I get bored of playing the same class or characters all the time, so, like in wrath and cata, I like to play alts.. then remember.. jesus, I need to grind months of dailies to get anything on him/her.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Aztrazolo's Avatar
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    For me, I'd have to jump on board with it not being alt friendly. Whatever I've done once on my main has been excruciatingly tedious on my alts, and I did not find the previous expansions to be that way. Though the repetition of dailies and such was a large contributing factor to that, I'd have to say for me that having what I consider largely uninspiring zones was also prohibitive of enjoyment a second time around. The zones were certainly impressive and well done, but nothing that from an immersive standpoint really was so awe-inspiring or different that just being in the zone was a reward in itself.
    Last edited by Aztrazolo; 2013-07-27 at 12:34 PM.
    Blindingly defending Blizzard; ignorantly trashing Blizzard. Both require an emotional investment that I'm unwilling to give. I'll take reason, logic, facts, and the willingness to accept that I may be wrong. At the end of the day I'll have nothing to account for and I may even have learned something.

  8. #8
    I'm a player who has played since 2007 on and off, I will admit I'm more of a do a main more than alt person. I do however like the stuff for alts in this expansion, my rep grind has been really quick, and I use alts really for one thing anyway, extra professions. Though I will agree account wide achievements were terrible. Oh but I completed this on my main. And? doesn't mean you can play your alt as good as your main.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think the best thing Wow can do for the next expansion is to do a land to a proper scale, where zones take ages to travel. The larger the place, the more hidden things they can do and hide. Make exploration fun, and at least give mains to do. Also, maybe do a cross between Wrath and MoP style of rep, the first character can do dailes up to revered then, and then at revered you can buy a BOA tabard that gives you rep in dungeons.
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  9. #9
    High Overlord Rioriel's Avatar
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    It is/was the expansion that once I'd seen the content once I didn't feel compelled to repeat it. I may very well do after the summer break I'm enjoying, but it just seemed like a hurdle too high to blunder through every thing again. More than likely my play-style though, I've only ever really focused on the main, on my own, and alts be damned, but Wrath and Cata were much more fun to repeat - solo - a couple of times.

    Also, once I'd got a Lei Shen kill and seen the scenarios and as much as I wanted to consume, I'd backed myself into a "now what?" corner. Was good timing to call it a summer break and wait for a new bundle of something to do. Keen for 5.4 - Timeless Isle looks like the kind of thing I'll re-subscribe for and amuse myself when I can.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Aztrazolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    I'm a player who has played since 2007 on and off, I will admit I'm more of a do a main more than alt person. I do however like the stuff for alts in this expansion, my rep grind has been really quick, and I use alts really for one thing anyway, extra professions. Though I will agree account wide achievements were terrible. Oh but I completed this on my main. And? doesn't mean you can play your alt as good as your main.
    I agree that an achievement on one class does not lend itself to the notion that you can achieve it on another class, but I would surmise that a majority of players appreciate account-wide achievements. The fact that one sub-set of the player base square off on its significance does not really change how it's been received by the rest of the players.
    Blindingly defending Blizzard; ignorantly trashing Blizzard. Both require an emotional investment that I'm unwilling to give. I'll take reason, logic, facts, and the willingness to accept that I may be wrong. At the end of the day I'll have nothing to account for and I may even have learned something.

  11. #11
    MoP has been more "alt friendly" than ever. Look how easy it is to gear up.... it's almost too fast.

    There is no reason to do all those dailies again unless you want to.

    If anything MoP's only problem with alts is that you too quickly run out of things to do.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-07-27 at 12:42 PM.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    For me its the fact theres nothing to do in the world.

    Brawlers guild is nice, but its not lasting content, you finish it easily after you get a gear upgrade.

    Pet battles is a terrible and slow version of normal pokemon that I couldnt even find the energy to invest time into past 3 level 10's.

    World PvP is gone and dead, the thing I spent the majority of my time on, thats not really MoP's fault, Cata was the Xpac that killed whatever was left of it. However they havent rectified it yet, next patch has some hope, but it awaits to be seen.

    Raiding was incredibly boring up till ToT. And theres not a lot to do outside of raids. The world bosses are so pathetically easy they genuinly should have just mailed us loot everyweek to save them wasting pixels.

    Im basicly just struggling to find anything to do outside of raids that doesnt include leveling an alt.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I love my main but I get bored of playing the same class or characters all the time, so, like in wrath and cata, I like to play alts.. then remember.. jesus, I need to grind months of dailies to get anything on him/her.
    this is largely exagerrated, it took me atound 4 days after dinging 90 on my mage to get in throne of thunder lfr.

    for me personally I think the normal raids are tuned a bit too hard but going by the endless discusions between to hard for some too easy for others this is a neverending discussion and is likely to alienate more players.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    MoP has been more "alt friendly" than ever. Look how easy it is to gear up.... it's almost too fast.

    There is no reason to do all those dailies again unless you want to.
    He doesn't know what he is talking about. I am laughing here in my seat.

  15. #15
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    I didn't have problems with the expansion itself. In the early parts, maybe doing dailies. But it's good to have them in the game, another way to get some side pieces.

    Well, biggest dislike... they are/were too slow with engineering updates! (though, love the goblin glider, and soon the Sky Golem)

    I had problems with players increasing poisonous behavior. Their attitude is what ruins content the most.
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  16. #16
    Well, I really don't want to speculate about why the expansion may not have worked for other people, because I feel Blizzard has been trying different things these last couple of expansions, and I can't pick out what hasn't been helping. What I will say, however, is why I gave up on Mists of Pandaria.

    1) I'm just kinda burned out on World of Warcraft in general. I've been playing the game on and off for nearly nine years now. They'd practically have to make an entire new game to be really interesting to me (not that I think that would necessarily be a good idea either).

    2) No one else I know plays anymore. No one. During Wrath of the Lich King, it seemed everyone was playing it. During Cataclysm, my most reliable friends were still playing. Mists of Pandaria? No one. Don't ask me why they stopped, as I'm not really sure. I think some stopped because it was just a fad for them to begin with.

    3) While I've liked Pandaren since Warcraft III, and I'm interested in history and culture from around the world, Mists of Pandaria didn't really do anything for me. I think going from saving the world at the last possible second from an apocalypse, to helping some farmers make beer, wasn't a great idea. Now, while the Throne of Thunder and Siege of Orgrimmar are having some pretty serious stuff going on, I've already left due to other reasons.

    4) I've never liked the concept of dailies. When the rest of my friends were playing and I really wanted something, I put up with them and could even find a measure of fun in it. From what I heard of the dailies in this expansion? No. Not even going to start. I don't care about them, and making them essentially mandatory is ridiculous.

    5) Forcing people to progress in order. One of my favorite things about Cataclysm was that, even though I joined at the tail end of the expansion, I was able to catch up real quick. I earned some points, bought good gear, and hopped right into the new dungeons. This also meant I actually killed the end of expansion boss when he was new for the first time (also thanks to the introduction of Looking for Raid). That was an awesome feeling. From what I understand, in Mists of Pandaria, even if you use Looking for Raid you have to gear up in order, which could potentially take months, when all I really want to do is see the end with everyone else.

    6) As you said, the linearity. I'm never one for alts, but during Cataclysm, I actually took one seriously for once... at least until I finished experiencing the new 1-60 content. After that, knowing I'd essentially be doing the exact same things as my previous character, I abandoned my new one.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonheart View Post
    He doesn't know what he is talking about. I am laughing here in my seat.
    I'm levelling my 3rd alt now, and have not done a single daily quest on any of them. It's unnecessary.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Brainsnack's Avatar
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    It must be a personal thing, because everything in this expansion has worked for me. Although this still doesn't make it my favorite expansion, it did offer enough to keep me going without getting bored.

    That said, I haven't been online for little over a week though

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Divine Path's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what it is about MoP that doesn't feel right, but that feeling is there. It's like a tiny splinter in the side of your otherwise functioning hand that you keep checking but cannot find.

    I am really starting to think that the theme of the expansion might be to blame. There is some beautiful scenery and landscapes in Pandaria, but for some reason, the feel of the continent and Pandaren themselves don't seem to fit in with the rest of the game. I know I am not alone with this feeling as I have read similar comments before.

    Also, not having a main protagonist was a mistake; focusing on the Horde vs Alliance conflict was silly because we both work together at the end anyway. It's like the whole escalation in tensions between the factions was pointless.
    "Come, Stormrage, and I will show you what happens to those that betray the lord of the Legion!" — Mannoroth.

  20. #20
    Well....
    For me is Lfr...
    Everyone has 2 to 3 alts...
    Re doing everything 10....15...23....44...66....7... times end up with boredom...

    New player are already seen the content within...Lfr so no need of doing normal...or progress trough normal.. And actually dont even need to play...

    As people can see...Guilds are becoming less and less with some server dont even having 1 raiding guild...

    There is no point of seeying...Normal modes...Heroic's modes... With every patch ..less people are willing to play within those difficulties...

    After all ...all this game was offering was a challenge reaching the end boss.....that now everyone can do it....with Watching Tv.

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