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  1. #81
    No sanctity of battle is only affected by melee haste. The numbers for the GCD are 100% incorrect, he has 44.26% spell haste(which translates to 24.91% melee haste) as shown by the 1.73 HR cast time and by the 1.12 HR w/SH x1 which are both correct for 44.26% spell haste.
    Last edited by Kolori; 2013-07-29 at 08:55 PM.


  2. #82
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolori View Post
    No sanctity of battle is only affected by melee haste. The numbers for the GCD are 100% incorrect, he has 44.26% spell haste(which translates to 24.91% melee haste) as shown by the 1.73 HR cast time and by the 1.12 HR w/SH x1 which are both correct for 44.26% spell haste.
    I thought 44.26% spell haste translated into 37.39% melee haste? Also, the GCD of different abilities is affected differently; i.e. HR would have a GCD based on the 44.26% spell haste, where Judgment would only have a GCD based on the 37.39% melee haste.

  3. #83
    Nah it's 24.91%, also the cast time on HR will always be longer than the GCD until you reach the 1 second global cap so you just account for the cast time in that case(as he did correctly) which is 1.12 in his case.


  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolori View Post
    Nah it's 24.91%, also the cast time on HR will always be longer than the GCD until you reach the 1 second global cap so you just account for the cast time in that case(as he did correctly) which is 1.12 in his case.
    If the GCD is effected by Melee haste only then some of the numbers are wrong, I was under the impression it matched flash of light cast time.

    I also added the cast time of holy prism to the rotation. If a rotation was 5 seconds long, and Prism has a 20sec cd, per rotation I included 25% of the GCD time. This scaled with the various rotations. I did this because that GCD lowers the mana used per second and I thought it was important to include. Also all the Time to OOM calculations was me literally timing myself till I couldn't cast a HR on the PTR.

    As for the claims of 50%+ Mastery all of my values were taken directly from my character on PTR, those are the correct values of haste and mastery with a 550 ilvl. At that item level with different gemming and reforging those are the numbers with Might and Kings, Flask, Food. Missing the haste buff isn't great though.

    Also, for the Overhealing numbers, they are taken directly from clears of ToT heroics. I think we assume EF hots have less overheal but the fact is we spam people with it and most of the time it is over heal, especially if healing with a disc priest. So my overheal % are 100% correct for my raid experiences in 10man. I applied that logic to LoD because the LoD ticks are going to be a lot like EF ticks, although small, they will be largely overheal, but atleast they add IM. Also, my sacred shield overheal number of 20% was used because that is my IM overheal average. I am assuming it will be on 2 tanks and 1 more taking damage and due to the nature of it being a shield will have the less than 50% overheal most direct heals have.

    Right now looks like my only true mistake is using the wrong calculation for GCD which is easily corrected.
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  5. #85
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bouchbagette View Post
    I think we assume EF hots have less overheal but the fact is we spam people with it and most of the time it is over heal, especially if healing with a disc priest.
    Aside from very high raid damage situations, I think EF hot is almost all overheal. A lot of it, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by bouchbagette View Post
    I applied that logic to LoD because the LoD ticks are going to be a lot like EF ticks, although small, they will be largely overheal, but atleast they add IM.
    That seems wrong in 10m and will be completely false in 25m, LoD is not a random HoT tick, it's a 6 target smart heal which will have an incredibly low overheal in almost all situations. Even in situations in 10m where relatively few targets take damage at a time I'd imagine LoD could possibly be glyphed; only problem is it's a direct 17% healing penalty and even with 6 targets I can't imagine it would overheal that much in 10m.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolori View Post
    Nah it's 24.91%
    Are we accounting for the 10% melee haste buff also?
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-07-29 at 09:37 PM.

  6. #86
    Hey there everyone! I am new to posting here and have been reading for a while. I made a write up for my guild about why I may have to switch to another healer for our 10m raids. Here is what I wrote and hopefully some people may help me in understanding what I might have wrong because what I mostly see being mentioned here is 25m:


    The grass is most definitely greener on the other side, however, this isn't my problem. Two of my major problems are:

    1) Although mana efficient, this rotation is quite robotic and somewhat strict. Having to Judge every 5.6 seconds or less( Sanctity of Battle lowers it CD), which generates one HP and does no healing, is extremely ineffective compared to other healer rotations. To make me into an AoE healer with an insubstantial dps spell in the middle of my rotation is disgusting. I wouldn't mind it all that much if Judgement actually healed someone. Taking time away from healing to use a dps spell could possibly cause deaths and stress on other healers.

    Tank: Why did I die?
    Lodivico: Sorry, I was using Judgement. It's part of my healing rotation now and I need to use it or else my heals aren't really effective.

    Taking minumum 1.5 seconds away from healing can cause major problems. I need to do this every 5.6 seconds or so over the course of 8 minute fights. That means I will be using it about 70 times or so if I am a decent healer. If used every 5.6 seconds it would be around 85 times, but I am not perfect. Lets say my reaction time along with the GCD only adds up to 1.5 seconds. That means nearly two minutes of a 8 minute fight will be spent Judging/ doing no healing. Lets not even think about the time it takes for me to move on to another spell and it to be fully cast. Look to part two to see how this will become even worse.

    2) The major AoE heals in the rotation weren't designed for 10m raiding. Holy Radiance is an extremely important spell in this rotation and only has a 10 yard range. This will severely impact me in 10m raiding. Why you ask? Here is a list of 10m fights where I use Holy Radiance effectively in ToT.

    1) N Jin'rohk during Lightning storm(while stacked up)
    2) Meagara( during rampage phases)
    3) Iron Qon( Sometimes during first phase and always during fist smash)

    That is all.

    Here are logs showing my healing done for all fights. All these logs were taken for kills up to Ji-kun or further.
    (Can't post these since I am new)

    Some things to note:
    Look also at Daybreak in the healing meters. Right now I use it on two stacks along with the 50% bonus my tier gives me.
    Now think about when I don't have that 50% bonus along with only getting one stack as the rotation suggests. Also know that Daybreak only hits people within 10 yards of the primary target.

    So what does this mean?
    .Two of my spells now are completely ineffective for 10m raiding, one of them being my MAJOR heal for the upcoming rotation.
    .Nearly two minutes of an 8 minute fight will be spent NOT healing

    So what do I have leftover for 10m raiding as effective heals? Light of Dawn(AoE 6 tartgets), Holy Shock(Single Target). Both of these are pretty effective as you can see on my logs.
    Last edited by Martinczo; 2013-07-29 at 09:52 PM.

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinczo View Post
    1) Although mana efficient, this rotation is quite robotic and somewhat strict. Having to Judge every 5.6 seconds or less( Sanctity of Battle lowers it CD), which generates one HP and does no healing, is extremely ineffective compared to other healer rotations. To make me into an AoE healer with an insubstantial dps spell in the middle of my rotation is disgusting. I wouldn't mind it all that much if Judgement actually healed someone. Taking time away from healing to use a dps spell could possibly cause deaths and stress on other healers.
    Basically this, compare Judgment to another mana conservation tool, Power Word: Solace. The latter heals, is not on such a short cast time, can be glyphed into a longer range (or not), and is not as mandatory as Judgment. Judgment actually has to be cast nearly on cooldown, or healing output and mana regen drop significantly; it's actually more important than Holy Shock in a way.

    If you compare our short CD rotation abilities (designed to be used nearly on CD), Judgment is a lot more annoying than Expel Harm or Solace and a lot more penalizing if not used so often.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Are we accounting for the 10% melee haste buff also?
    There is no 10% melee haste buff, I think you mean the 10% melee attack speed which does not affect melee haste.


    Quote Originally Posted by bouchbagette View Post
    If the GCD is effected by Melee haste only then some of the numbers are wrong, I was under the impression it matched flash of light cast time.
    The GCD of spells is affected by spell haste but you never account for it because all spell cast times are greater or equal than 1.5 seconds, which means the cast time will always be greater or equal to the GCD.
    Last edited by Kolori; 2013-07-29 at 10:37 PM.


  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    That seems wrong in 10m and will be completely false in 25m
    The smart heal definitely helps but we are hitting LoD every 4-5sec whether people need the heal or not. This is why the overheal, on average, will be so high. The nature of IM, regen levels, and especially SH has made healing a rotation (EF was a rotation) and that lends to high overheal on all fights that aren't like Raden.
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  10. #90
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolori View Post
    There is no 10% melee haste buff, I think you mean the 10% melee attack speed which does not affect melee haste.
    Hmm, never mind, this is quite confusing but I'll check on PTR whether it works or not. Triple checked and the character frame doesn't appear to be accurate.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-07-29 at 10:27 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Hmm, never mind, this is quite confusing but I'll check on PTR whether it works or not. Triple checked and the character frame doesn't appear to be accurate.
    Random Prot pally checking in: GCD for spells is reduced by spell haste, GCD (and cooldown) for Judgment by melee haste only, cooldown of Holy Shock is affected by melee haste only, and the 10% attack speed buff has no affect on the cooldown/GCD of Judgment nor on the CD of Holy Shock. If you want a quick and dirty number for melee haste: you get 1% melee haste for 425 haste rating.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by paoani View Post
    Random Prot pally checking in: GCD for spells is reduced by spell haste, GCD (and cooldown) for Judgment by melee haste only, cooldown of Holy Shock is affected by melee haste only, and the 10% attack speed buff has no affect on the cooldown/GCD of Judgment nor on the CD of Holy Shock. If you want a quick and dirty number for melee haste: you get 1% melee haste for 425 haste rating.
    I know the haste scale, but that is what I did get. The character screen shows the buff in "Melee Haste" frame, but that number is only for attack speed, it didn't actually affect rune regeneration (or energy or sanctity of battle by proxy) despite the tooltip saying so

  13. #93
    So if I decide to stick with SS come 5.4, what will be the stat priority? A little curious

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Healmeprease View Post
    So if I decide to stick with SS come 5.4, what will be the stat priority? A little curious
    It looks like we're still stuck with mastery even though it doesn't affect SS.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    It looks like we're still stuck with mastery even though it doesn't affect SS.
    Hm... I'm thinking it'll be something like int>haste>mastery>spirit>crit with the SS change

    Correct me if ya think im wrong please D:

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Healmeprease View Post
    Hm... I'm thinking it'll be something like int>haste>mastery>spirit>crit with the SS change
    Did you actually look at any of the spreadsheets that have been posted in this thread? Why did you ask if you don't want the answer?
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Did you actually look at any of the spreadsheets that have been posted in this thread? Why did you ask if you don't want the answer?
    What spreadsheets?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Healmeprease View Post
    So if I decide to stick with SS come 5.4, what will be the stat priority? A little curious
    Decide to stick with SS? You sound like a LFR player to me. You dont decide anything, you use whatever is best atleast thats how it works for those who are semi serious about their play.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Healmeprease View Post
    What spreadsheets?
    Let me rephrase... Did you read this thread before you skipped to the end?
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  20. #100
    Where is the best place to put or send PTR logs to show devs ? are there any devs on this forum we can pm that ppl know of? I remember GC saying logs are the best things to send them to prove any points....

    HINT: Any Blizzard Devs here that can identify themselves??

    I don't particularly want to post them here if its on hc testing. or maybe i shouldn't care so much....

    PS. I guess the devs won't identify themselves here lol or all hell will break loose lol

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