I meant pug as in short one raider not a complete pug group(i worded it wrong sorry).
with the HS mana change mana shouldn't be an issue, a few pages back there was a long discussion about the 5000 or so less spirit we need just from HS.
The majority of the people posting from PTR experience are pugging zero raid members ever. We don't have bad groups. I'm still planning to be reasonably heavy spirit until fight experience proves otherwise. Being able to spam relentlessly and not oom is priceless in undergeared hard modes.
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However, we still don't want to wipe to those mistakes, which makes me (and most likely almost every top 10man guild holy paladin) to have spirit > mastery/haste build.
I will personally go Spirit > Mastery > Haste but some people most likely will go haste-heavy. However, for progression spirit is invaluable stat to have.
Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-09-01 at 08:56 AM.
I will most likely be pushing haste up to EF breakpoints then stacking Mastery on top. It's been a while since I looked it up but I think there is a +4 EF ticks breakpoints @ around 7.1k haste ((with 5% raid haste) confirmation, anyone?) so will most likely go for that which should be pretty easy to get.
Last edited by Andyo; 2013-09-01 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Wording.
I haven't been on the PTR but i've seen some videos of the fights and with a fully heroic geared raid normals shouldn't really be that much of an issue? I don't know what the later fights are like, would we be needing more spirit for them so would changing to a more spirit build be better for the later fights on normal? Obviously for heroic ill be grabbing more spirit due to the reasons said above but im really asking do you guys think it'll be needed for clearing normal on the first week with a fully heroic geared roster?
However, haste breakpoints might be more worth now as previous posters said, need to think about those but in the mean time I'm sticking to spirit, then mastery.
I'm probably not going much more than 15k spirit(16k tops) unless I find I actually find I need extra spirit. I am also definitely debating going for some haste breakpoints when the patch hits.
I play 10 (no mana tides / innervates for me) so I'm going full out on spirit because until now I've always needed all that spirit on progress (excluding Lei Shen).
Maybe some of the theorycrafters here ( looking at you Bouch, nice work btw so far) could compute is it worth to go for the haste breakpoints or not and how it would affect HPS/HPM. It is obvious that getting more haste increases HPS and decreases most likely HPM but how much would be nice to see.
Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-09-02 at 05:54 AM. Reason: Spelling
My statement was based on armories and conversations with top paladins which indicates that 10-holys go with all out spirit and 25-pallies with little bit less spirit and more mastery. It was the case on progress and on farm.
EDIT: In first phrase "you" is passive, not meaning you.
Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-09-02 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Clarification
My interpretation of my chart is:
-Dropping Spirit like it’s hot with Selfless Healer will top output when HR and LoD hit 6 targets. But if you loose LoD targets it drops quickly.
-For Sacred Shield there is little gain or difference in stacking Mastery/Haste. Break points for extra SS tick was meaningless.
-There is no clear benefit from hitting the EF breakpoints either (15%, 25%, 35%, 45%) largely due to the fact so much of our healing is based on how many targets our HR hits more so than the extra EF tick.
-EF continues to look the most versatile tier 45 talent but its scaling with haste is not linear and sticking with Mastery will give the most reliable HPS boost.
-SH can be very powerful and is the least mana intensive spec but to pull it off you need a stacked raid. For 25man if you can count on 6 targets getting hit by LoD/HR you won’t be in a bad place in comparison to say, SS.
-Going no spirit leaves you with 4k less mp5. SH spec is 11k mp5 cheaper to execute than EF rotation with double HR.
Edits: Corrected chart. Red is Not True!