rip selfless healer
rip selfless healer
Urgh, looking increasingly likely that I'll be moving to Mistweaver :/
[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Has this change been made already? I went on the PTR with my paladin and didn't notice any "charges". The only thing I noticed was that it could be applied to three targets, but with a 10 sec recharge inbetween each application. This seems like waaaay too much maintenance. Sorry if I am a bit behind the times with this one.
Last edited by Martinczo; 2013-07-30 at 07:16 AM.
Can anybody figure out the logic behind this most recent change to Judgment? Blizzard just has no idea what they're doing at this point. They essentially force us into a talent selection and then realize it's too OP so they nerf it. Why do they keep nerfing our talents instead of buffing the other ones? Here's a solution for each one to make them equally useful:
1) Make Selfless Healer increase the cap on Light of Dawn to either 8 or 12, in addition to its current effects. Surely other classes won't complain about the increased target cap of our wimpy AOE heal if we have to take a talent for it, right? Lower the Judgment mana cost to 8% or something fair. This was just a ridiculous overreaction.
2) Make Eternal Flame proc Mastery shields once more, but decrease the value. Maybe it only takes 20% of our Mastery? I'm not good with numbers so I don't know how effective this would be against causing us to be too OP, but as it stands now Eternal Flame is looking useful in only one fight compared to Selfless Healer which was running away with the competition (and of course, now all of our L45 talents are worthless.)
3) Make Sacred Shield scale with Mastery, or something. At least cause our stats to have an effect on it.
Now we're back to not having a useful L45 talent. Fantastic.
It was obvious they were going to do this to SH. It's not like Monks dropping spirit. This was a particular talent that allowed us to drop spirit and created problems around switching talents in that tier because our spirit was too low for the others. In isolation I think it's a good change. Talents that create a completely different stat priority are bad. Holistically of course it isn't great. Our best talent got nerfed rather than bringing the others up. Still hoping for a balance pass.
The SS change is nice for quality of life. Can anyone check and see if it scales with mastery yet?
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Regarding the latest tweets, my analysis is showing about a 6-10% nerf from all fights (7.5% average, except Tortos which I cannot reliably estimate due to WOL being wonky) from our status quo. This is above the 5% estimate from Ghostcrawler.
Also note that the "buffs" barely compensate (and still do not fully) for the nerf, but more importantly, do not forget that other healers who were either already ahead of us or barely behind us are receiving buffs of ridiculous magnitude.
So I wouldn't immediately get comfortable thinking "we aren't nerfed," we were already second last and other healers look to be propelled far more than 7.5% forward putting us at dead last.
Only thing I liked about SH was that getting haste wasnt making you go oom faster. And now thats gone, and the clumpsy boring rotation is still in full effect
Last edited by Corrupt; 2013-07-30 at 09:54 AM.
I suppose the main point is we didn't need a 5% nerf. Paladins in 5.3 weren't OP after losing the 4pc and the mastery nerfs.
However, I'm also not accounting for behavior adjustment, if I knew EF wouldn't stack the same shield I wouldn't play the same way I do presently, whereas my analysis basically has me subtracting the EF shield but playing the exact same way I do now with exact same actions taken.
Of course, I could be playing suboptimally, but that's the reason I took all fights precisely. A nerf is a nerf, whether originally not always playing optimally or not, so I wanted to model what it would do to me on average. When I theorycraft rotation versus rotation I generally assume near perfect play (though it's obvious which rotations are less forgiving than others, but that's more of a qualitative observation than something useful to sim).
One thing I can try to do to model the nerf is to play with LOD only. The "nerf" is between 5.3 EF and live. So by playing with LOD and a non-existent (SH) or crap 45 talent (SS) on Live I can see what the floor is for us next patch; that is, using no talent at all. Unfortunately if I did this experiment next week it would be only with permission from the raid leader and I probably (or rather definitely) will not be doing so on Dark Animus, Lei Shen, or Ra-den.
We really don't need the 5% nerf seeing as how other healers being buffed ridiculously is far more than a 5% relative nerf already even if they did nothing to us. Shaman are the biggest culprit, with their GG special snowflake 18 target healing rain. Sanctuary which has not been fixed at all is a good 2nd place. Disc is Disc.
Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-07-30 at 10:10 AM.
Right now, as I've said before, the only saving grace I think Holy Pally has for being competitive next tier is getting the Eternal Flame change reverted. Even then we'd still be falling behind everyone since Druids get their mushroom buff, Shammies get ridiculous Healing Rain and Monks are getting OP Rushing Jade Wind.
I'm just holding out hope that Blizzard has one final change in the works that will bump us up. Surely they can't let this joke of a spec get passed into Live...
GC latest tweet.
"Aside from EF (which is small) and SoI (which we compensated for), which nerfs are you talking about?"
Developers have no clue whatsoever. EF nerf small? Lol.
And yes, GC also confirmed the judgment change was because we are dropping spirit.
"Paladins dropping all Spirit to use SH wasn't the intent. We'd rather it compete on utility / HPS grounds not super efficiency."
I love that he responded to aladya's point about monks and spirit ("But monks dropping all Spirit is fine? Even with 9k Spirit and old SH we could barely compete in 10s.") with
"Monks don't do it if they choose the right talent. We don't think the mana or tools choice for paladins would be very fun."
What? No monks past a certain gear point stacks spirit. And there are "right" talents now?
Last edited by Freia; 2013-07-30 at 11:17 AM.
This is just getting rediculous, we essentially need an extra 4200 mp/5 to get back to the mana effiency it was at when taking SH.
Asuming we would go for 8k spirit in 5.4 that has basically changed to 14k. What a fucking joke.
Last edited by Pacer; 2013-07-30 at 11:25 AM.
As far as I'm concerned they've made the right choice on this. SH was simming as more efficient and more hps. Dropping spirit for one particular talent isn't great for the competing choices. I'm not denying these is going to leave us in a bad place again (no spirit SH being our only competitive option) but hopefully we will be adjusted to make up for it.
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The question now is if people will still be taking SH but with full spirit. Will be interesting to see.
He tweets that he doesn't want us to choose a certain talent to gain more hps which in effect changes stats for us, yet they up mana cost of judgement giving us next to no leveled choice for that talent tier, laughing in the face of people who respond in relate to other classes? devs need to SERIOUSLY get reading the forums more and playing the game. Their sense of class balance is out of the window, raid bots couldnt be more wrong to actual numbers than they currently are
Thsi is exactly what he is saying; in a slightly confusing (and wrong ) way. Ergo what he´s saying is: Monks don t do it (dropping spirit) by/because of choosing a specific talent; but in general. That obviously doesn´ tmake it any better, but as usual, he can proove his point in max 160 characters...