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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    SS just isn't very useful. The target cap an relative unpredictability of the shield activating at the right time make it not very appealing to me. Couple that with the very high change of overhealing most of its value and it's just not on my radar at all except for maybe a weird niche fight that I can't conceive of where only three people are taking at a time.
    They can help SS a lot by allowing it to roll up to a cap. Unused SS carries through to the next tick. Cap it at 300k or something. You don't have to worry as much about wasted shields.

  2. #162
    High Overlord Verdell's Avatar
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    The comments from yesterday just further prove to me that output numbers mean almost nothing to the devs. They care more about the proportion of players playing these healing classes rather than how the individual classes do.

    It's a sad, sad state of affairs when the ones with the most passion for it are being ignored and told they're wrong. The slap in the face hurts and will continue to hurt for weeks after 5.4 release.

  3. #163
    @Aladya

    When I saw GC's tweets last night my jaw dropped. I can't believe he's really this disconnected reality.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    They can help SS a lot by allowing it to roll up to a cap. Unused SS carries through to the next tick. Cap it at 300k or something. You don't have to worry as much about wasted shields.
    You know SS heals for arround 350k so capping it at 300k is rediclous, maybe have it cap at 2-3 unused ticks but anything above that is rediculous. If you let it roll over like you suggested people who time it before pull would also be rewarded which is something I really fucking hate.

    Having to start a fight with 5 holy power and IH on tanks and/or the raid is really a fucking pain in the neck and something that needs to die. Imo we should be generating 1 holy power every 9 secs outside of combat so we dont have to keep healing prepull and IH should drop going in and out of combat so we cant stack that either.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    You know SS heals for around 350k so capping it at 300k is ridiclous, maybe have it cap at 2-3 unused ticks but anything above that is ridiculous.
    Well people are saying it isn't worth using because too many ticks will go unwasted on the raid. 300k sounds like a lot but when you think it's only on 2 players if you discount the tank it's still a lot less shield than we were rolling with EF and mastery. If 2-3 ticks will make it usable then great.

  6. #166
    High Overlord cakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    You know SS heals for arround 350k so capping it at 300k is rediclous, maybe have it cap at 2-3 unused ticks but anything above that is rediculous. If you let it roll over like you suggested people who time it before pull would also be rewarded which is something I really fucking hate.

    Having to start a fight with 5 holy power and IH on tanks and/or the raid is really a fucking pain in the neck and something that needs to die. Imo we should be generating 1 holy power every 9 secs outside of combat so we dont have to keep healing prepull and IH should drop going in and out of combat so we cant stack that either.
    I dont see why things like that and shadow orbs don't reset upon entering combat. Or atleast raid encounter bosses. I never have started with HoPo just on principle since I was sure that wasn't designed that way... and I'm super lazy.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by cakin View Post
    I dont see why things like that and shadow orbs don't reset upon entering combat.
    I suppose it's different for Holy Paladins in that we can max out shields and generate HP without being in combat. It a ret / prot Paladin could generate HP without having to hit something they'd be starting on max HP too.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Well people are saying it isn't worth using because too many ticks will go unwasted on the raid. 300k sounds like a lot but when you think it's only on 2 players if you discount the tank it's still a lot less shield than we were rolling with EF and mastery. If 2-3 ticks will make it usable then great.
    You need to monitor the shield timers. If a resto druid is able to monitor reju, then we should be able to monitor shields

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by paladative View Post
    You need to monitor the shield timers. If a resto druid is able to monitor reju, then we should be able to monitor shields
    I think you misunderstand. Monitoring the shield duration is trivial.

    Unlike revuj, which is spammable, SS can only go on 3 targets max, with one always on the tank. The complaint is lots of those SS ticks will be wasted because there won't be any damage. Hots face a similar problem, but they are of course spammable where SS is not.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    I think you misunderstand. Monitoring the shield duration is trivial.

    Unlike revuj, which is spammable, SS can only go on 3 targets max, with one always on the tank. The complaint is lots of those SS ticks will be wasted because there won't be any damage. Hots face a similar problem, but they are of course spammable where SS is not.
    Shield is not supposed to be spammed. You are not force to keep 3 shields up all the time, if you already know there will not be incoming damage, you should use a direct heal, why should you use a shield?

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by paladative View Post
    Shield is not supposed to be spammed. You are not force to keep 3 shields up all the time, if you already know there will not be incoming damage, you should use a direct heal, why should you use a shield?
    It's not that "there isn't any incoming damage" it's that damage rarely occurs at intervals that would consume EVERY single shield proc, or even the majority of them. You're also suggesting that you don't use a very cheap damage reducing spell because it won't be fully used, which is a bit silly because why would you even TAKE the talent if you aren't going to use it liberally or on cooldown?

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by paladative View Post
    Shield is not supposed to be spammed. You are not force to keep 3 shields up all the time, if you already know there will not be incoming damage, you should use a direct heal, why should you use a shield?
    Even with 3 shields up the hps is still poor. Hence why IT IS necessary to keep all 3 shields up at once to eek every bit of hps out you can and why it isn't great that so much of the shield goes to waste.

    They have increased the target cap on SS for a reason. The point is, the way it works now, it isn't working toward that goal.

    I'm not sure what your idea for SS is but it is clearly different to mine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We know Beacon (Bacon) isn't useful in Proving Grounds and a couple of SoO bosses. We're working on it working on NPCs when in an instance.
    I thought they'd already mastered that. Beacon worked with our healy dragon did it not? Pretty sure I could beacon the npc on the legendary chain too?

  13. #173
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    @Dubaliciousyo We buffed the finishers to help compensate for that and we can buff them more if needed.

    @Dubaliciousyo Tier 45 does not need to be the entire solution to making Holy Paladins work.

    I really hope they dont screw with HA now because every Hpala takes it..

  14. #174
    Are the buffs to finishers even working yet on the PTR?

    If he really thinks the EF nerf only affects us by 5%, why was it even on their radar. What a load of crap.

  15. #175
    The talents are fairly competitive with one another, but overall we've lost a ton of strength from that tier

    The fact that we're getting nerfs while other healers are untouched/buffed and get better set bonuses <3

    GC reply Then I would make the argument that shaman (or whoever) were overbuffed and not claim "all these damn nerfs!!!"

  16. #176
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jce4ever View Post
    The talents are fairly competitive with one another, but overall we've lost a ton of strength from that tier

    The fact that we're getting nerfs while other healers are untouched/buffed and get better set bonuses <3

    GC reply Then I would make the argument that shaman (or whoever) were overbuffed and not claim "all these damn nerfs!!!"
    I think he's in troll mode with us at this point..

    He says that but will he nerf the other classes? No.. then why bring it up at all? Because he has no valid point to respond to the original question..

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    @Dubaliciousyo We buffed the finishers to help compensate for that and we can buff them more if needed.

    @Dubaliciousyo Tier 45 does not need to be the entire solution to making Holy Paladins work.

    I really hope they dont screw with HA now because every Hpala takes it..
    I just don't like that his response implies that a 3 button rotation (4 with SH) is "working". HS>HR>HR>LoD rotation shouldn't be acceptable.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdell View Post
    The comments from yesterday just further prove to me that output numbers mean almost nothing to the devs. They care more about the proportion of players playing these healing classes rather than how the individual classes do.

    It's a sad, sad state of affairs when the ones with the most passion for it are being ignored and told they're wrong. The slap in the face hurts and will continue to hurt for weeks after 5.4 release.

    And that is exactly what it felt like. His comment was so ignorant my jaw actually dropped.

  19. #179
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Devs seem to just dont care about player feedback but u Us players need to keep fighting the good fight in the us forums since its basicly the only place were they have to respond at sooner or later when there are loads of posts..

    I would make posts in the Eu forums but they never respond there..

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    The scaling of SS is terrible its as simple as that.. And in a high damage scenario SH will give you a little more of a Hps boost than SS.. And with EF beeing worse than LoD in almost every scenario.. SH will still be the talent to get in most bosses..

    I have the rigth to call him whatever i want when after getting imense responses from the paladin comunity him and the rest of the devs act like there isnt any problems and that we are balanced.. Either they dont understand the class and the abilities they created themyselfs or they are just lying when they say they think we are balanced.. Pick one..
    ef wasn t part of the post, but agree
    sh is now mana neutral or even more expensive. Considering,average overhealing of HR, a sh x 1 buffed HR results in: mostly overhealing. Benefit is a faster cast and a minor healing gain. I don't see the benefit. Only in comparison to not taking any talent.
    It was beneficial until the JudgeM Change for mana., because it allowed us to drop quite some Spirit and reforge that spirit.
    SS scaling isn't good, works only with haste, which isn't good either, numbers are to low, still I consider it far from,useless in various situations. Someone broke down,it would mostly overheal, which is bs, the average overhealing of a Ss on a tank is <10%, 2nd target/tank depends,on,fight as especially 3rd target. Don't get me wrong, not praising Ss to be the answer to all questions but deffo better than utter crap without a doubt; first you call it useless, now you say Sh grants a Little bit more HPS than SS, hm..aha.

    and HM yea you got the right to say whatever you like? Yea....just sad. You really believe that?

    EDIT: pick one, well, I don´t think your 2 Options are the only answers, but I don´t know whats the reason for their poor judgements.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    And yet, I just couldn't believe my eyes when i read his reply this morning.
    GC comment suprised me actually: that he made a Statement about the nerfs to EF and SoI and actually "ranked" the intensity of the nerfs. He rarely does that; not that much that he, as always, either counters a question with another question, gives an answer the Person asking wasn´t relating to or simply, as in this case, bashing someones question like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdell View Post
    The comments from yesterday just further prove to me that output numbers mean almost nothing to the devs. They care more about the proportion of players playing these healing classes rather than how the individual classes do.
    I think they take everthing into consideration, Players playing a class, Output numbers etc. Although they would never admit that or whichever method they re using for "balancing" purposes, cause it would make them vulnerable. You post raidbots, they Claim hps isn´t a good way to measure healing Balance; you post many palas will reroll to monk, he´ll Claim at the end of mop that mw Monk has been well accepted.
    As said, I think they take many things into consideration and more than they admit they do, but I got no cluehow they get so missleading Information out of it to make so many poor judgements.
    Last edited by Medario; 2013-07-30 at 10:30 PM.

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