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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    False, Totemic Projection is a QOL talent. You can easily move to where you want the totem placed, especially as an elemental shaman.
    False. On nearly every boss in ToT there is a 1 shot-ish mechanic for a ranged player moving into melee range, some will only kill you, others will wipe your raid. You can time some of these mechanics with boss mods, but a very large portion of players do not use addons. If you would like a list of all the abilities that force ranged to stay at ranged per boss, you can either read the dungeon journal, or do some heroic raiding as ranged.

    EDIT: Im bored.

    Jin'rokh = Focused Lightning, raid wipe if you time it wrong while going into melee to drop your totem.
    Horridon = Dire Call / Direhorn 1 shotting you if you are in melee when it goes out.
    Council = Soul Fragment, raid wipe if you get caught getting targeted while dropping your totem in melee.
    Megaera = Get targeted with Frost Beam while dropping your totem in melee-ish range = high chance of killing raid members.
    Ji-kun = Caw.. dead melee, raid wipe.
    Durumu = Life Drain in melee range = may be a wipe on progression, very hard to swap players efficiently in melee range.
    Primo = Cluttering up melee, possibe to much splash damage depending on which abilites Primo has at the time.
    Dark Animus = Extra font thrown at melees feet, who already have limited room to move.
    Iron Qon = Arcing Lightning, raid wipe unless you outgear this significantly.
    Twins = Ice Comet.. sorry melee i needed my totem down, dont care if i killed you all.
    Lei Shen = Diffusion Chain, oops.
    Ra-den = Oh, a fight where projection isnt a dps increase.
    Last edited by Angrysteel; 2013-07-29 at 06:24 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrysteel View Post
    False. On nearly every boss in ToT there is a 1 shot-ish mechanic for a ranged player moving into melee range, some will only kill you, others will wipe your raid. You can time some of these mechanics with boss mods, but a very large portion of players do not use addons. If you would like a list of all the abilities that force ranged to stay at ranged per boss, you can either read the dungeon journal, or do some heroic raiding as ranged.
    A good shaman knows when to run in and not one shot his or her raid.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    A good shaman knows when to run in and not one shot his or her raid.
    Agreed. But what happens when a boss mechanic doesnt line up with your totem timer? Do you:

    A) Stay out of melee range until the boss mechanic goes off, then run in to drop your totem, losing several seconds of uptime on your totem and thus losing damage.
    B) You run in early to refresh your totem, so it has 100% uptime but you just lost a GCD for a filler spell resulting in a loss of damage.
    C) Use the mandatory dps gaining talent known as Totemic Projection and keep both your 100% uptime, and not lose extra GCDs?

    I choose C so i both dont lose dps, while also not putting my raid at risk of a wipe. Which one did you pick?
    Last edited by Angrysteel; 2013-07-29 at 06:36 AM.

  4. #24
    i think everyone needs to take a step back, realize that fire totems are no longer affected, and think about the reason the talent was put there in the first place, its really nice for pvp, helpful placing multiple support totems during a raid (sbt + earth ele or resto water totems) and BREATHE

  5. #25
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    I see some decent PVP implications: You can have grounding protect some of your other high threat air totems like SLT, CPT, or Stormlash.....and now your longer duration earth totems like SBT or Earth elem wont interfere if you have to suddenly drop tremor or ebind.

    Overall it is pretty lame, just like the whole tier. Totems don't have enough depth to them to devote a whole tier to, they are just spells on sticks, not like pets or something.

  6. #26
    Again thank you blizzard for nerfing elementals

  7. #27
    shaman talent design is so weak its incredible.
    Arena Master Elemental Shaman
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  8. #28
    Admittedly, I have not played elemental at all this expac and my guild doesn't have one. So I'm curious, why is it necessary for Elemental to have its totem in melee range on every fight? I could see the advantage on things like Primordious or Horridon where there is constant movement but on most the boss isn't moving that much.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    So I'm curious, why is it necessary for Elemental to have its totem in melee range on every fight? I could see the advantage on things like Primordious or Horridon where there is constant movement but on most the boss isn't moving that much.
    It depends on which totem you are talking about. Searing Totem doesnt matter too often, since it has a range of 40 yards.

    But totems like Stormlash, Healing Tide, Tremor, Windwalk, Healing Stream, etc etc, while they have a 40 yard range (30 yards for some), that doesnt mean just because the Elemental shaman is standing within 40 yards of the boss, the entire raid will get the effect of the totems.

    If i am standing max range of the boss, and drop a Stormlash, its very common for the melee to be out of range, so we project our totems to the boss ensuring the entire raid will gain the benefits. Same reason Resto shamans project in Healing Tide (Elemental will do this as well in 5.4), and Mana Tide etc.

  10. #30
    are you trying to sit in melee range to drop your totem? lmao

    this keeps getting better

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrysteel View Post
    It depends on which totem you are talking about. Searing Totem doesnt matter too often, since it has a range of 40 yards.

    But totems like Stormlash, Healing Tide, Tremor, Windwalk, Healing Stream, etc etc, while they have a 40 yard range (30 yards for some), that doesnt mean just because the Elemental shaman is standing within 40 yards of the boss, the entire raid will get the effect of the totems.

    If i am standing max range of the boss, and drop a Stormlash, its very common for the melee to be out of range, so we project our totems to the boss ensuring the entire raid will gain the benefits. Same reason Resto shamans project in Healing Tide (Elemental will do this as well in 5.4), and Mana Tide etc.
    Very few fights require projecting totems this way (lei shen in the only one that comes to mind). I see COE and TP to dominate in 5.4

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    Very few fights require projecting totems this way (lei shen in the only one that comes to mind). I see COE and TP to dominate in 5.4
    This is probably true for 10 man raiding since 10 man raids rarely have issues with positioning. There are several fights in 25 man raiding where you simply are not able to be in range all 25 members at all, and will need to place your totems centrally (ie, with projection). Ji'Kun, Dark Animus, Iron Qon, and Twins are fights where you will 100% not be able to be in range of all raid members, and there are several other fights in 25 raids where positioning is rough, but not impossible. TP just makes life so much easier for 25s.

    I guess there seems to be a pretty big difference between whats needed in 10s vs 25s to maximize raid dps.

  13. #33
    I am going to miss Totemic Restoration since it was one of my favorites.

    Overall it is pretty lame, just like the whole tier. Totems don't have enough depth to them to devote a whole tier to, they are just spells on sticks, not like pets or something.
    My thoughts exactly.

  14. #34
    Blizzard's reasoning is that it would cause everyone to want to choose that talent and they want people to instead have a choice of which talent to choose. The only thing they did was make Totemic Projection mandatory

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrysteel View Post
    This is probably true for 10 man raiding since 10 man raids rarely have issues with positioning. There are several fights in 25 man raiding where you simply are not able to be in range all 25 members at all, and will need to place your totems centrally (ie, with projection). Ji'Kun, Dark Animus, Iron Qon, and Twins are fights where you will 100% not be able to be in range of all raid members, and there are several other fights in 25 raids where positioning is rough, but not impossible. TP just makes life so much easier for 25s.

    I guess there seems to be a pretty big difference between whats needed in 10s vs 25s to maximize raid dps.
    kinda yes, kinda no. Ji kun has a fairly small platform so you don't really need projection, DA i can see, twins your mostly saving cds for a stacking burst phase anyway. I'm not saying it isn't useful, I'm just saying that it isn't required since those left out are usually being covered by other healers and should be able to handle them with you handling everyone else. as far as SLT i forget to drop the thing half the time and we do ok. furthermore the burst phase is almost everyone on top of each other.

  16. #36
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    kinda yes, kinda no. Ji kun has a fairly small platform so you don't really need projection, DA i can see, twins your mostly saving cds for a stacking burst phase anyway. I'm not saying it isn't useful, I'm just saying that it isn't required since those left out are usually being covered by other healers and should be able to handle them with you handling everyone else. as far as SLT i forget to drop the thing half the time and we do ok. furthermore the burst phase is almost everyone on top of each other.
    Projection will not reach all of Ji kuns platform unless you are fairly close to the centre. You forgetting to use things doesn't make a talent bad, by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  17. #37
    I will be on PTR tonight doing some theorycrafting and simulating if anyone wants to meet up!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Projection will not reach all of Ji kuns platform unless you are fairly close to the centre. You forgetting to use things doesn't make a talent bad, by the way.
    never said it was, just trying to seperate the required portion out of this discussion as projection is more about qol and which will be better for your style and fight

  19. #39
    Totemic Restoration a thousand times more useful than this POS talent is going to be. Anyone who takes it needs to be sat down and talked too. HTT fits entirely within the downtime of HST. MMT is 1 second of overlap that a Totemic Restoration, used just 2 seconds before recalling your HST, lets you put down your HST again after the duration of MTT. The marginal uses where you just want to be sloppy don't make up for all that Totemic Restoration has to offer. The one use for this new talent that I wouldn't consider being due to sloppy play is if you really needed to drop a defensive earth totem out while your earth elemental was out - a once in every 5 minutes precaution... never useful.

    I could understand min/maxer dpsers taking the talent if it had fire totems for keeping 2 searings out (if it could do 2 of the same) or at least one with their elemental, but still I wouldn't even consider it over restoration unless there were at least 2 other shamans in the raid with enough awareness to handle dropping a raid-wide defensive totem once in a while... in any spec. But then again, I'm not a min/max style player. I tend to support and pick up slack and handle emergencies when I can, while still throwing out competitive dps.

    I predict Totemic Persistence will be completely marginalized within a month after its live release, once every shaman's finally convinced of how horrid it is. Projection will Easily eat up the majority of the Totemic Restoration users in raids, but by no means would I underestimate Call in PvP.

  20. #40
    As I've said before, this whole charade that is totems needs to just be fixed already. Does anyone else feel like Blizzard is just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? I understand they want to keep totems for Shamans, as the two just sort of belong together, but Blizzard hasn't yet put in enough energy or time to adequately fix them. I can't really buy GC or Blizzard trying to justify this. They keep wanting totems to happen, and... it's just not happening. The design of totems just needs to be reworked. It's no wonder Blizzard is having so much trouble... they don't really have much to work with here. And that entire "totem" talent tier blows... they need to make some of those baseline or something. I'm REALLY hoping for significant changes to shamans/totems in 6.0.

    For me at least, in PvE, I play Resto and Elemental, and I can't really see much usefulness in Totemic Persistence. On paper it seems cool, but there just aren't enough totems that share elements to make it worthwhile, except HST/HTT/MTT. I suppose when HTT goes baseline in 5.4, Ele or Enhance could drop HTT and HST at the same time. Maybe that'll be useful?
    Last edited by tusker; 2013-08-20 at 07:27 AM.

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