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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Initial results:

    RC is better than every option for every spec (tested with H Feather/H Rage for unholy/2-hand, and H feather/ H spark for DW).
    About 10k better for unholy.
    About 8k better for 2-hand frost.
    About 3k better for DW frost.

    Results from the dev implementation of this bug in simc.
    I find your comment of dw dps increasing through the use of rc over blood tap to be rather suspect. As a dw frost dk using both heroic feather and spark (who is currently progressing on heroic lei shen 25 man in case anyone wants to call my raid experience into question), I briefly tested my dps on live using rc over blood tap and found myself plagued by the very issue for why we use blood tap in the first place i.e. orphan unholy runes. That being said, the use of runic corruption resulted in a desynchronization in rotation which resulted in a decrease of howling blasts and a loss of dps. I'd love to see the details from the sims you used to derive the dps increase so I can investigate this further.
    Last edited by Samsarathedk; 2013-07-28 at 03:09 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Did you test with the metagem and the cloak as well?
    Yes legendary metagem, no cloak.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samsarathedk View Post
    I find your comment of dw dps increasing through the use of rc over blood tap to be rather suspect. As a dw frost dk using both heroic feather and spark (who is currently progressing on heroic lei shen 25 man in case anyone wants to call my raid experience into question), I briefly tested my dps on live using rc over blood tap and found myself plagued by the very issue for why we use blood tap in the first place i.e. orphan unholy runes. That being said, the use of runic corruption resulted in a desynchronization in rotation which resulted in a decrease of howling blasts and a loss of dps. I'd love to see the details from the sims you used to derive the dps increase so I can investigate this further.
    http://www.mediafire.com/download/c2...frost.html.zip

    Here is a copy of the profile, "3" used RC, "2" used RE, and Death_Knight_Frost_1h_T15H used BT.

    You drop from 124 HBs to only 94, and drops the overall dps from HB, and FS by a fair amount. No ones arguing that it's more "clunky" for lack of a better word.
    However, as you can see in the sim, you get a surge of zandy procs, legendary meta procs, and trinket procs, and they more than make up for the gap.
    Last edited by Mendenbarr; 2013-07-28 at 04:16 AM.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Apparently with this new thing that display RPPM on the item now on PTR it's clear that Rune Regen affects RPPM so UH gets 20% more than frost by default AND whenever RC proc is up it doubles the RPPM of the trinkets since it increases rune regen by 100%.

    I was shocked when i saw this

    Feather PPM for frost with BT = 0.72PPM
    Feather PPM for UH with RC = 1.74PPM

    Talisman of Rage PPM for frost with BT= 3.86PPM
    Talisman of Rage PPM for UH with RC = 9.30PPM

    LOOOOOOOOOOL

    And BTW this dk was reforged and gemmed for mastery so the PPM difference is even larger when you put the normal UH reforges.
    Lol wait, does that mean unholy would have full or near full uptime of talisman of rage?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    I know it's silly, but this shit is what's going to get me to quit this class after three expansions. I'm really tired of literally doing double the keypresses of any other class for half the DPS.

    Then, this kind of shit; which totally undercuts everything I've done to learn to play better, going from Frost 2h to DW Frost in T14, Then Unholy in T15 and even learning Festerblight just to eck out more DPS.

    NOPE. BUGLOL. Totally cuts the legs out of all that personal effort, while Assassination Rogues are just sitting on their hands for 6s at a time during their rotation, compared to me being GCD locked 80% of the fight.
    i did that 1 months ago =D.

  5. #45
    Well it goes from 60% to about 80% uptime, so kinda close.
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  6. #46
    Yay a bug that increases our dps to levels almost competitive levels.... better nerf it so we're shit again

  7. #47
    I have no idea what we're talking about. Too many acronyms.
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Apparently with this new thing that display RPPM on the item now on PTR it's clear that Rune Regen affects RPPM so UH gets 20% more than frost by default AND whenever RC proc is up it doubles the RPPM of the trinkets since it increases rune regen by 100%.

    I was shocked when i saw this

    Feather PPM for frost with BT = 0.72PPM
    Feather PPM for UH with RC = 1.74PPM

    Talisman of Rage PPM for frost with BT= 3.86PPM
    Talisman of Rage PPM for UH with RC = 9.30PPM

    LOOOOOOOOOOL

    And BTW this dk was reforged and gemmed for mastery so the PPM difference is even larger when you put the normal UH reforges.
    Sorry, not understanding all the jargon and what this thread is bout. Leveling a DK atm, at level 70 and tanking blood dungeons and frost for PvP, some1 please explain what this post is about and why current Blood Tap users are mad?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Youarefired View Post
    I have no idea what we're talking about. Too many acronyms.
    What has been mentioned so far in relation to Death Knights.

    UH = Unholy
    R/PPM = Real/Proc Per Minute
    BT = Blood Top
    IBP = Improved Blood Presence
    UHP = Unholy Presence
    RC = Runic Corruption
    RE = Runic Empowerment
    Feather = Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    Sorry, not understanding all the jargon and what this thread is bout. Leveling a DK atm, at level 70 and tanking blood dungeons and frost for PvP, some1 please explain what this post is about and why current Blood Tap users are mad?
    Because stuff that gives you extra rune regen such as unholy presence and runic corruption are affecting RPPM(proc per minute) gear such as the legendary metagem and the trinkets but no one knew that until they started to display PPM on the PTR tooltip and this bug is going on for like ever and it explains a lot of things such as why unholy was better in this patch and why runic corruption was being superior to the other choices.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Yes legendary metagem, no cloak.




    http://www.mediafire.com/download/c2...frost.html.zip

    Here is a copy of the profile, "3" used RC, "2" used RE, and Death_Knight_Frost_1h_T15H used BT.

    You drop from 124 HBs to only 94, and drops the overall dps from HB, and FS by a fair amount. No ones arguing that it's more "clunky" for lack of a better word.
    However, as you can see in the sim, you get a surge of zandy procs, legendary meta procs, and trinket procs, and they more than make up for the gap.
    About to crash out for the night but I saw you posted the sim so I wanted to pop in and say thanks. I glanced over it briefly and yes I do agree that the increased trinket procs are quite nice. I'll experiment with rc some more tomorrow when I have ample time to do so.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    i did that 1 months ago =D.
    Is it wrong that I enjoy the game for what it is currently (Could be loads better, but a massive improvement from Cataclysm by far), EXCEPT that I can't find a class I enjoy playing? Playing since Mists release, and have 8 90's, 3 level 88-89's. And 44 other characters across both factions between 60-85.

  13. #53
    My guess would be that this went into effect when they switched RPPM to use "true haste."

    Comical nonetheless.
    "I have it all simmed."
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  14. #54
    holy shit
    so basically the only reason unholy was anywhere near competitive in t15 was due to a bug?

  15. #55
    Maybe now we'll get a blue post on the ptr

  16. #56
    I've been doing all my dailies and other BS as blood recently and I really thought nothing of the fact that I always seem to be transformed into a Zandalari, and every time I look at my Talisman stacks while in combat it is either at 4 or 5.

    But yes, I bet there is a near 100% chance that this is nerfed as soon as they find out about it.
    Last edited by Skarssen; 2013-07-28 at 12:44 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    I've been doing all my dailies and other BS as blood recently and I really thought nothing of the fact that I always seem to be transformed into a Zandalari, and every time I look at my Talisman stacks while in combat it is either at 4 or 5.

    But yes, I bet there is a near 100% chance that this is nerfed as soon as they find out about it.
    If it is nerfed they will need to considerably buff both specs to even be viable. Which I personally don't see happening. I think they'll just fix the ppm for for frost.

  18. #58
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    Just tested it on live, DW w/ RC and DW w/ BT. Didn't see the expected difference in uptime after 2 10min-dummy-fights (which is too short to be sure but I'm too hungover to do a longer test right now).

    Also Frost/Unholy/Blood have different rppm-chances by default, not just because of the T5-talent.

  19. #59
    Whenever one talent is clearly superior to the others in nearly every situation, the outlier receives a nerf. With this revelation RC becomes absolutely mandatory for all specs, in all situations. Even in PVP people are using PVE trinkets. Assuming they are happy with the RPPM system and we continue to see RPPM trinket design, RC will be too strong in comparison.

  20. #60
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    We don't know if it's live or the tooltips on the PTR are even correct yet.

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