So that's why UH is so much better than frost...

[Galathir]

It really pisses me off that Blizzard keeps ignoring all concerns and complaints of DKs, no matter how valid, for months, but as soon as the bug is discovered that kept at least Unholy partially competitive, it gets fixed within two days and Unholy gets a little bandaid to make up for it.

I've been around since Wrath and I have always loved my DK and this game, but even I am slowly starting to consider unsubbing if this goes live as it is now.

[Raikh]

Since the fail start in wrath they pretty much kept an eye on us. I dunno if it was second half Season 9 or Season 10 but there was a was a good example, frost got buffed to stay competitive in pve but went bad shit insane in pvp, arms warriors alike. Frost dks were fixed after half a week and arms warri could faceroll their way up to gladi the entire season and our pve dmg was also screwed again. (or beginning t 11 where uh dk, fire mage and sv hunter were top, sv and uh got nerfed to the bottom of the ladder while mages were allowed to break meters for some time)

But atleast they're only fixing it for the ptr with interesting results, like the t15 2set permaproccing doing like 100k dps more than usual, those bugs keep them atleast busy with our calss, hopefully they will find how broken dk mechnaics are because of all that ups and downs some day so we can finally be a somewhat normal class.
To be a heroclass sounds cool but i don't like to be a walking trash can.
Anyway lets just wait for the class balance to begin, for current nothing changes and nothing will change, we should rather try to be constructive with our class if it is possible by now.

[Mawnix]

You have no idea how mad a Blood Tap user like myself finding this out is...

Yep. Kinda ticked I didn't realize it sooner. Running RC tonight.

- - - Updated - - -

Sidenote: the change isn't on live yet, correct? So RC is still broken?

[Vereesa]

Sidenote: the change isn't on live yet, correct? So RC is still broken?

Correct, the RC fix is only coming in 5.4.

[Mawnix]

Correct, the RC fix is only coming in 5.4.

Time to feel overpowered as shit until 5.4 then. Whoop whoop.

[Deleted]

Is there even a single DK tank in a top guild anymore?

Im seriously curious about this aswell ...

[CausalXXLinkXx]

This is not true. I can't give you evidence, but they definitely do care. It's even one of the very reasons Riposte exists.
The spec is completely benched on progress. Is there even a single DK tank in a top guild anymore?

Lem was WWA's DK tank, but I don't think he was in for every fight.

[Trubo]

That's not at all what my point was and I know fully well know why Frost was issued those buffs. What I was trying to say was that buffs can (and as vmagik pointed out, generally last) come out very far into the PTR cycle and seeing as how we aren't anywhere close to a release date yet, there's nothing to worry about.

Sorry, didn't realize you were talking about WHEN dps buffs would be implemented. That's what I get for skimming through the thread.

[dkdk]

We think the cooldown lineup at the start of PvE encounters has gotten out of hand, and it’s having some rather negative effects on gameplay. Particularly with the number of RPPM procs most raiders have these days, the pull has just become way too important. It’s affecting gearing, it’s punishing classes that can’t capitalize on it as well as others, and it’s not how we’d like raiding to work.

To that end, we’re going to make another change to how RPPM mechanics work on the pull. Starting a raid encounter will set every RPPM proc’s “time since last proc” to 90 seconds. That means the more frequent procs will still be more or less guaranteed to go off, but the rarer (and more powerful) procs will just have a high chance. This should hopefully chill things out a little bit, without changing how you play too dramatically.

Not sure on the Festerblight ramifications. Whats the time to a guaranteed proc of feather?

[Xinia]

Oh, I absolutely agree it matters and if it was my decision I would compensate Blood. But you don't need to convince me. The devs historically haven't cared about tank DPS except where it was inflated (ie, Alysrazor) or caused the spec to be benched on progression.

@Xinia: Please explain. You might be right, simcraft doesn't sim real fights, but I can't think of anywhere it would make a perceptible difference.

I have not used it in a long while so I dont remember how it was again back then, gone try it later and see. But I belive it was cause it would sometimes enable a unholy rune as a death rune and if you saved runic power for buffing pet faster when transformation was about to run out. Granted nowdays saving RP is not really worth it anyways.

[Enosh]

As of 2 weeks ago GC confirmed dps tuning for 5.4 was not done in a tweet. Some healing tuning has been implemented and some talent/glyph changes have obviously gone in.

concern being that dk problems go beyond simple number tuning which would act more as a band aid instead of fixing the problem and might just bump the issues further down the ilvl road

[Tojara]

From what somebody said feather is never guaranteed to proc at the start of the encounter. I've never tested it myself because I typically notice it's up within the first couple seconds as long as I've waited a couple minutes anyways.

[Deleted]

From what somebody said feather is never guaranteed to proc

Correct: usually it proc on the pull but sometimes it takes few seconds/a bit of time to proc.

[Deleted]

We think the cooldown lineup at the start of PvE encounters has gotten out of hand, and it’s having some rather negative effects on gameplay. Particularly with the number of RPPM procs most raiders have these days, the pull has just become way too important. It’s affecting gearing, it’s punishing classes that can’t capitalize on it as well as others, and it’s not how we’d like raiding to work.

To that end, we’re going to make another change to how RPPM mechanics work on the pull. Starting a raid encounter will set every RPPM proc’s “time since last proc” to 90 seconds. That means the more frequent procs will still be more or less guaranteed to go off, but the rarer (and more powerful) procs will just have a high chance. This should hopefully chill things out a little bit, without changing how you play too dramatically.

Not sure on the Festerblight ramifications. Whats the time to a guaranteed proc of feather?

Just speaking from personal experience - I generally play "apply diseases when they're strong and then keep them rolling until the next opportunity to use outbreak on strong procs" type unholy nowadays with a pretty normal rotation in between... In that scenario there's likely not going to be much of a DPS hit (relative to other classes). True festerblight that applies diseases at the start of the fight with every proc available alongside synapse springs/pot will likely be dead.

- - - Updated - - -

concern being that dk problems go beyond simple number tuning which would act more as a band aid instead of fixing the problem and might just bump the issues further down the ilvl road

Agreed, but if anything major is going to be done it won't be in 5.4 unfortunately.

[Deleted]

Not having feather-powered diseases from the pull and onward through the entire fight (until feather + zandalari trinket/5 stacks talisman etc procs) will be fucking devastating.

Sigh.

[Murdos]

They're going to have to do some baseline buffs, and I don't see that happening.

Five bucks says the 'buffs' are "Unholy Might: Increases Strength by 20%, up from 15%."

[SSHA778]

It really pisses me off that Blizzard keeps ignoring all concerns and complaints of DKs, no matter how valid, for months, but as soon as the bug is discovered that kept at least Unholy partially competitive, it gets fixed within two days and Unholy gets a little bandaid to make up for it.

Because it's a bloody bug. Determining if a mechanic is not behaving as it properly should is infinitely simpler than determining if a class will have issues in a future tier.

Lack of response != ignoring.

And, no, Unholy has not received a band-aid for it. All they've done is make Unholy Presence do what it is currently doing now, except not through the result of a bug. If the patch were to be deployed this very instant, Unholy would still do less damage (barring PL), because RC-RPPM inflation has been removed.

[Deleted]

I'd love to see them actually getting rid of our mastery finally, both frost and UH. Sure, they added gargoyle damage in 5.2 but still it's really fucking boring. I think this is where they can create something fresh and bring back the class to the surface.

[Samsarathedk]

They're going to have to do some baseline buffs, and I don't see that happening.

Five bucks says the 'buffs' are "Unholy Might: Increases Strength by 20%, up from 15%."

I see the buff more along the lines of "Hey guys, we decided to take 5% strength of pillar of frost and give it to unholy might because we feel the need to push frost even further down the line" but that's just me. (And yes that was tongue-in-cheek)

[Uselessrouge]

haha and i was allready thinking shit the uptime from my trinkets are quite high... :>

but i did not go look why ^^