So that's why UH is so much better than frost...

[Vereesa]

I told you RC was good!

I've gotta say I regret not taking your advice.

[Nangz]

Not like its game breaking... dks need bugs for more dps imo

Whether or not its a bug depends on what happens in live ( this is a ptr only thing.) The most we will get out of it is higher simcraft ranking which still isn't very reliable as a means of comparing across classes.


If its intended and we weren't told, it makes RC almost manditory. If its not intended, well, we are balanced around it anyway. If it gets nerfed they will have to buff us to compensate.

[valliant13]

Well. Shit.

I guess we can look forward to a nerf over this now. :/

God I hope not, if we weren't already hurting enough.

[Saybel]

The last thing we need is a nerf over this, strike damage is already looking like it needs to be buffed, for both specs. The only thing I see that's desirable about this class is ease of dealing with mechanics, and personal survivability.

It doesn't look like it'll be ridiculous with next tier trinkets, but that remains to be seen really.

[Deleted]

I remember posting in the festerblight thread ages ago with the whole "rc is better but I can't explain why" thing, seems I was kinda right - told you minxy :-P

[Cryopathy]

I did a very quick test on live to see if this has actually been occurring. I am not very knowledgeable regarding statistics, so I don't know if this is even a helpful test or not, but hopefully it contributes to the discussion somehow. If not, please let me know.

Both tests were hitting the raider's training dummy from the back in Acherus as Blood spec in Blood Presence. I held everything constant between attempts except for using RC vs. RE. I had 15.62% haste and was using the 522 Primordius' Talisman of Rage trinket.

I can't post links yet, so replace "wol" in the links below with the worldoflogs url.

Test 1 with RC (log: wol/reports/cpxflhh39oy322wc/details/2/)
Duration: 19.11.02 to 19.16.22 = 320 seconds = 5.33 minutes
659 total hits/ticks of spells (including hits, crits, glancing blows, ticks, and tick crits)
29 Runic Corruption procs with 24.9% uptime
24 Rampage procs / 5.33 min = 4.5 ppm

Test 2 with RE (log: wol/reports/umifr1e07a6crvow/details/2/)
Duration: 19.17.03 to 19.23.20 = 387 seconds = 6.45 min
726 total hits/ticks of spells
27 Rampage procs / 6.45 min = 4.18 ppm

Hopefully this helps in some way. If not, please educate me :P

[Saybel]

I remember posting in the festerblight thread ages ago with the whole "rc is better but I can't explain why" thing, seems I was kinda right - told you minxy :-P

That was before I had op rppm trinkets and was using FB with ICD trinkets

Been using RC since I got feather!

SHHH!

[Murdos]

If its intended and we weren't told, it makes RC almost manditory. If its not intended, well, we are balanced around it anyway. If it gets nerfed they will have to buff us to compensate.

You know they're not going to do that.

[Khain]

For this trinket the uptime is not that important but the amount of stacks, for a more accurate test you must do with the feather.

[Deleted]

That was before I had op rppm trinkets and was using FB with ICD trinkets

Been using RC since I got feather!

SHHH!

Still called it, bosh! /hugs

Can see it just being outright removed to balance it with the other talents, don't think we're going to be unscathed by this if it turns out to be accurate. Ghostcrawler will likely spin it as an indirect buff for frost :-D

Wonder if they actually knew about it and that was the reason for the Unholy Might nerf?

[Khain]

Still called it, bosh! /hugs

Can see it just being outright removed to balance it with the other talents, don't think we're going to be unscathed by this if it turns out to be accurate. Ghostcrawler will likely spin it as an indirect buff for frost :-D

Wonder if they actually knew about it and that was the reason for the Unholy Might nerf?

I don't know if it's a buff for frost, RC feels terrible for frost.

[Murdos]

I know it's silly, but this shit is what's going to get me to quit this class after three expansions. I'm really tired of literally doing double the keypresses of any other class for half the DPS.

Then, this kind of shit; which totally undercuts everything I've done to learn to play better, going from Frost 2h to DW Frost in T14, Then Unholy in T15 and even learning Festerblight just to eck out more DPS.

NOPE. BUGLOL. Totally cuts the legs out of all that personal effort, while Assassination Rogues are just sitting on their hands for 6s at a time during their rotation, compared to me being GCD locked 80% of the fight.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's a buff for frost, RC feels terrible for frost.

No, I mean it will be removed (aka unholy nerfed) and then spun as "bringing it in line with frost"... Was a joke anyway don't worry.

[Mendenbarr]

Initial results:

RC is better than every option for every spec (tested with H Feather/H Rage for unholy/2-hand, and H feather/ H spark for DW).
About 10k better for unholy.
About 8k better for 2-hand frost.
About 3k better for DW frost.

Results from the dev implementation of this bug in simc.

[Schizoide]

Obviously this bug should be fixed. It's not a nerf, it's a bugfix.

If the class falls behind with the bug fixed, it should be buffed to compensate.

[Khain]

Initial results:

RC is better than every option for every spec (tested with H Feather/H Rage for unholy/2-hand, and H feather/ H spark for DW).
About 10k better for unholy.
About 8k better for 2-hand frost.
About 3k better for DW frost.

Results from the dev implementation of this bug in simc.

Did you test with the metagem and the cloak as well?

[Samsarathedk]

Initial results:

RC is better than every option for every spec (tested with H Feather/H Rage for unholy/2-hand, and H feather/ H spark for DW).
About 10k better for unholy.
About 8k better for 2-hand frost.
About 3k better for DW frost.

Results from the dev implementation of this bug in simc.

I find your comment of dw dps increasing through the use of rc over blood tap to be rather suspect. As a dw frost dk using both heroic feather and spark (who is currently progressing on heroic lei shen 25 man in case anyone wants to call my raid experience into question), I briefly tested my dps on live using rc over blood tap and found myself plagued by the very issue for why we use blood tap in the first place i.e. orphan unholy runes. That being said, the use of runic corruption resulted in a desynchronization in rotation which resulted in a decrease of howling blasts and a loss of dps. I'd love to see the details from the sims you used to derive the dps increase so I can investigate this further.

[Mendenbarr]

Did you test with the metagem and the cloak as well?

Yes legendary metagem, no cloak.

I find your comment of dw dps increasing through the use of rc over blood tap to be rather suspect. As a dw frost dk using both heroic feather and spark (who is currently progressing on heroic lei shen 25 man in case anyone wants to call my raid experience into question), I briefly tested my dps on live using rc over blood tap and found myself plagued by the very issue for why we use blood tap in the first place i.e. orphan unholy runes. That being said, the use of runic corruption resulted in a desynchronization in rotation which resulted in a decrease of howling blasts and a loss of dps. I'd love to see the details from the sims you used to derive the dps increase so I can investigate this further.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/c2...frost.html.zip

Here is a copy of the profile, "3" used RC, "2" used RE, and Death_Knight_Frost_1h_T15H used BT.

You drop from 124 HBs to only 94, and drops the overall dps from HB, and FS by a fair amount. No ones arguing that it's more "clunky" for lack of a better word.
However, as you can see in the sim, you get a surge of zandy procs, legendary meta procs, and trinket procs, and they more than make up for the gap.

[mmines]

Apparently with this new thing that display RPPM on the item now on PTR it's clear that Rune Regen affects RPPM so UH gets 20% more than frost by default AND whenever RC proc is up it doubles the RPPM of the trinkets since it increases rune regen by 100%.

I was shocked when i saw this

Feather PPM for frost with BT = 0.72PPM
Feather PPM for UH with RC = 1.74PPM

Talisman of Rage PPM for frost with BT= 3.86PPM
Talisman of Rage PPM for UH with RC = 9.30PPM

LOOOOOOOOOOL

And BTW this dk was reforged and gemmed for mastery so the PPM difference is even larger when you put the normal UH reforges.

Lol wait, does that mean unholy would have full or near full uptime of talisman of rage?

[devilminion]

I know it's silly, but this shit is what's going to get me to quit this class after three expansions. I'm really tired of literally doing double the keypresses of any other class for half the DPS.

Then, this kind of shit; which totally undercuts everything I've done to learn to play better, going from Frost 2h to DW Frost in T14, Then Unholy in T15 and even learning Festerblight just to eck out more DPS.

NOPE. BUGLOL. Totally cuts the legs out of all that personal effort, while Assassination Rogues are just sitting on their hands for 6s at a time during their rotation, compared to me being GCD locked 80% of the fight.

i did that 1 months ago =D.