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  1. #1

    Prot paladin t16 set bonues and offset gear (trinkets) 5.4 ptr

    Yo my fellow prot pallies! I've been messing around on the ptr abit and it have come to my attention that there are two trinkets that seem bloody amazing and same goes for the 2 set. First trinket that comes to mind is that trinket that reduces the tank cds with 20%

    -Guardian, Ardent Defender becomes 2.5min cd instead of 3.
    -Divine Protection with talent is 30 sec and this trinket 25 sec.

    If you combine that with the 2 set (I had some friends dpsing me with cds just to get a feel for how much it actually heals).
    First of was a shadow priest who bursted me with 3 orbs at the start and by the end of the duration it healed for roughly 53k for 10 seconds.
    Second I had a ele shaman dpsing me and by the end of the duration of guardian I gained a 48k ish hot.
    What I'm trying to get at is the fact that bosses will hit alot harder (obviously) which means the heal will be alot stronger. Have anyone else experimented with this and do you feel that the trinket might be worth it (meaning if you are going for as much haste as possible like me it means you'll sacrifice some for reduced cd on your defensives)?

    The other trinket I had in mind is the one that amplifies Haste, Mastery, Crit, Healing and Damage by 14% and it has a chance to proc like 11k+ str (lots of parry!). Just by equiping it I gain like 4-5% haste which is nice. I haven't had the chance yet to properly test the damage or healing.

    What are your thoughts on this? Would be cool if you could share some of your ptr experiences!

    Fml the title might be abit missleading since I spelled it wrong (Yes I can sometimes be very retarded) sorry guys and girls!

  2. #2
    I think the 2p is questionable, most burst events occur within the time that GoAK runs for, I'm not wholly convinced that it is worth going for on its own.

    The 4p essentially removes the "penalty" from using WoG instead of ShoR, which is nice. I think the decision as to whether to pursue it or not will depend largely on the rest of the loot table, and how big the dps increases of the shadow priest, ret pally and warlock respective 2p and 4p bonuses are.
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  3. #3
    I tried using the 4p however it seems bugged atm (maby just for me I donno) since I noticed the buff and all however when I tried "consuming HP" I lost my bastion of glory stacks + HP.
    I am sort of abit sceptical regarding the 2p however in theory Guardian combined with that trinket (lower the cd by 30sec) + boss dmg (lets pretend that timing it correctly will net you around a 100k hot I guess every 2 sec for 10 sec on some fights) I'm pretending because I don't know the exact numbers as it's dependant on gear and all. Nontheless if the boss fight last 10-12 minutes and in theory you are able to use Guardian atleast 3 times wouldn't a 100k hot for 10 seconds x 3 be worth sacrificing some haste since haste should be trivial in SoO due to higher ilvl?

  4. #4
    Yeah, I reckon a 100k/s HoT is what you can expect from the 2set bonus.
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  5. #5
    I'm still a tad bit lost on the trinket that increases your healing and damage done, mastery haste crit by 14%. But it seems like it would be a good trinket to use as tanking.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WtfMike View Post
    I'm still a tad bit lost on the trinket that increases your healing and damage done, mastery haste crit by 14%. But it seems like it would be a good trinket to use as tanking.
    It's only critical healing/damage though. But yeah, mastery and haste up by 14% Do gief.


  7. #7
    Keep in mind, the 2pc is 200% of the damage taken for 12 sec is given as a HOT that ticks every one second.

    Taking 1mil dmg (very easy to do, even on 10N) during GoAK means you'll get a 2mil heal @ 200k/sec for 10 sec.

    Not saying it's brilliant, BUT it's nothing to scoff at. Especially when you consider that there's VERY little penalty in taking our tier pieces this time.

    Gloves will likely be BIS (Haste/Exp, with 2 innate sockets)
    Helm is Haste/Parry (not terrible, not great)
    Chest/Shoulders are Accuracy/Mastery with 3/2 sockets
    Legs are our "worst" piece.

    So it's not like we're talking about picking up D+P pieces here. I'll likely pick up the tier for 2pc, though 4pc isn't really doing much for me so far.

    Debating also running 4pc t15 with CDR trinket to give stupid amounts of incoming HoPo from 4pc...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  8. #8
    Legs being our worst item isn't a big deal as well, with stuff like this going around.
    Also, yummy trinkets all over the place.
    Last edited by arel00; 2013-07-31 at 05:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by arel00 View Post
    Legs being our worst item isn't a big deal as well, with stuff like this going around.
    Also, yummy trinkets all over the place.
    Well, right. There's always a "worst" item in a tier set, with a better off-piece to replace. Just glad that it's legs, since we seem to gain not only better stats, but also an extra gem slot. #winning

    Jury is still out (for me, anyway) about 2pt16 vs 4pt16 vs 4pt15 for 5.4, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Keep in mind, the 2pc is 200% of the damage taken for 12 sec is given as a HOT that ticks every one second.

    Taking 1mil dmg (very easy to do, even on 10N) during GoAK means you'll get a 2mil heal @ 200k/sec for 10 sec.

    Not saying it's brilliant, BUT it's nothing to scoff at. Especially when you consider that there's VERY little penalty in taking our tier pieces this time.

    Gloves will likely be BIS (Haste/Exp, with 2 innate sockets)
    Helm is Haste/Parry (not terrible, not great)
    Chest/Shoulders are Accuracy/Mastery with 3/2 sockets
    Legs are our "worst" piece.

    So it's not like we're talking about picking up D+P pieces here. I'll likely pick up the tier for 2pc, though 4pc isn't really doing much for me so far.

    Debating also running 4pc t15 with CDR trinket to give stupid amounts of incoming HoPo from 4pc...
    If you want to "game" the 2p, you should tell your healers to not bubble you or to use any outside CD's when you use your GoAK. But given that it's still a tier bonus that affects a 3m cooldown, that most people will probably use sparingly or possibly even at a specific point of a fight. The 200% change was good, but still don't think it's going to make the bonus super attractive, kinda like our current t15 2p. Has it's uses, not game breaking.

    As far as the 4p goes, I know a few people are going on about how you can use "clever use of mechanics" to game free DP procs by using the bonus... but then you're still losing out on the Bastion procs and you're probably wasting the WoG to an overheal. Again, has it's uses, and makes it so that using WoG (like our 2pT15) is less of a "waste".

    I'm not going to go over the tier items, because well, what I think would be useful isn't what most people do (10 vs 25). I will say that people should be picking up the 4pT15 bonus to go into the tier with. Bosses will be hitting harder, and there is going to be more to learn about the fights, so you're probably going to be using Divine Protection more often. Which equates to more Holy Power gained through the bonus, which means faster DP usage, which means more holy power...



  11. #11
    I'm actually a bit curious since I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere: How does the t16 4p deal with Glyph of Harsh Words? If we use WoG offensively it doesn't consume BoG stacks, which I could see causing some funny behavior with free WoGs to fish for DP procs and get a bit of extra damage out. We lose a powerful self heal, but can gain a pretty large chunk of damage and "free" DP procs.

    Edit: I'm more wondering if we will be able to use WoG offensively to pump out some "free" damage with the 4 set, not that if the glyph is bugged we should abuse it for free WoG spam.
    Last edited by paoani; 2013-08-01 at 07:25 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    If you want to "game" the 2p, you should tell your healers to not bubble you or to use any outside CD's when you use your GoAK. But given that it's still a tier bonus that affects a 3m cooldown, that most people will probably use sparingly or possibly even at a specific point of a fight. The 200% change was good, but still don't think it's going to make the bonus super attractive, kinda like our current t15 2p. Has it's uses, not game breaking.

    As far as the 4p goes, I know a few people are going on about how you can use "clever use of mechanics" to game free DP procs by using the bonus... but then you're still losing out on the Bastion procs and you're probably wasting the WoG to an overheal. Again, has it's uses, and makes it so that using WoG (like our 2pT15) is less of a "waste".
    This is exactly my thought(s) on the t16 tier. I really am not blown away by the 2pc, it's a nice QOL buff but nothing that changes how I play. 4pc is incerdibly lackluster (to me), since it's entire basis of use is centered on spamming WOG overheals to try and trigger a talent. A resounding "MEH" at best.

    Really digging 4pc t15H as the go-to; just need to figure out which pieces. Assuming off-set chest (since I've still NEVER seen a conq chest N OR H ever...) even though t16 gloves are damn smexy.

    Quote Originally Posted by paoani View Post
    I'm actually a bit curious since I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere: How does the t16 4p deal with Glyph of Harsh Words? If we use WoG offensively it doesn't consume BoG stacks, which I could see causing some funny behavior with free WoGs to fish for DP procs and get a bit of extra damage out. We lose a powerful self heal, but can gain a pretty large chunk of damage and "free" DP procs.

    Edit: I'm more wondering if we will be able to use WoG offensively to pump out some "free" damage with the 4 set, not that if the glyph is bugged we should abuse it for free WoG spam.
    Sadly, on PTR anyway, the glyph IS bugged, and results in loltastic results. Since it doesn't consume BOG, it basically turns your rotation into a machine-gun HW spam, with DP procs going to SHotRs. Surely* it won't go live like that.

    * It could very well go live like this, and then get nerfed with the force of 1000 banhammers for abuse. Wouldn't be the first time...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Really digging 4pc t15H as the go-to; just need to figure out which pieces. Assuming off-set chest (since I've still NEVER seen a conq chest N OR H ever...) even though t16 gloves are damn smexy.
    The option is to look at haste levels of the different items vs haste of other different items. Currently I'm using Helm/Shoulder/Chest (YES!)/Gloves with Horridon pants (it's HTF, while we managed to see our first pair of H Durumu last night).

    I could go through all of the combos of current t15 vs 4pT15+T16 loot tonight if you want.



  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sadly, on PTR anyway, the glyph IS bugged, and results in loltastic results. Since it doesn't consume BOG, it basically turns your rotation into a machine-gun HW spam, with DP procs going to SHotRs. Surely* it won't go live like that.

    * It could very well go live like this, and then get nerfed with the force of 1000 banhammers for abuse. Wouldn't be the first time...
    I actually just had a thought about this: depending on how this bug gets resolved, harsh words could end up being the best of both worlds in a way. Using free WoGs to pump out damage and fish for DP procs, while banking BoG stacks for an emergency heal like we do on live, even if the heal wasn't free. Though I suppose we will just need to wait and see about that. If they do end up in this situation, I will definitely be grabbing the t16 4pc.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    The option is to look at haste levels of the different items vs haste of other different items. Currently I'm using Helm/Shoulder/Chest (YES!)/Gloves with Horridon pants (it's HTF, while we managed to see our first pair of H Durumu last night).

    I could go through all of the combos of current t15 vs 4pT15+T16 loot tonight if you want.
    Yeah, I'm wondering how much I'd "lose" by picking up a tier chest with subpar itemization and of using t16-level gloves/legs (with their bonus sockets and ideal itemization). Ofc, we'd have to look at the entire package (trinkets/jewelry, weapons, non-tier slots) to get an idea, but if I can still hit haste/hit/exp cap, I think this will be what I do. That, of course, is pending us ever seeing a conq tier chest. And, I must say, it would hurt my heart to finally get one and then turn it into a D/P chest

    I've got a doubleheader after work, so won't be home until just before raid time. IF you have time and care to do this, I'd be most appreciative!

    Quote Originally Posted by paoani View Post
    I actually just had a thought about this: depending on how this bug gets resolved, harsh words could end up being the best of both worlds in a way. Using free WoGs to pump out damage and fish for DP procs, while banking BoG stacks for an emergency heal like we do on live, even if the heal wasn't free. Though I suppose we will just need to wait and see about that. If they do end up in this situation, I will definitely be grabbing the t16 4pc.
    I think that's the key thing that would prevent this from EVER working. ProtPal is already under a lot of scrutiny by the community for being "OP AS FAWK YO". Having a tier bonus/glyph combo that allows us to essentially spam one button to victory and outperform an actual rotation will not fly. At "best", I can see this getting fixed/recoded down to the original idea of "dump WOG @ 3xBOG for DP proc fishing", since anything more than that will likely (definitely) get stamped out.

    Plus, unless you're talking coin rolls/LFR, I'd def pass tier to DPS and even healers first anyway, since the bonuses are sick for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  16. #16
    If Harsh Words goes in like that, I could see the 4p T16 bonus being beneficial then. But I would 100% use 4p T15 until you have the 4p T16 you want to swap in one shot.

    This is also going from a 2/2 heroic T15 items. If you're 0/2 or 2/2 normal mode, I would probably just go for the T16 items as the stat ilvls are probably better vs the bonus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    And, I must say, it would hurt my heart to finally get one and then turn it into a D/P chest
    I got our first one, and it sat in my bag waiting to be turned in until I could do some more math to figure it out. I ended up being better off using the 549 horridon pants with the 2/2 D/P chest vs 2/2 tier pants+2/2 ret chest.



  17. #17
    I can see that. Losing my 549 Primo gloves with BS socket (2k haste on gloves alone!) is going to SUCK, but the SoO loot tables looks like we can make that up in spades with the non-tier items. Esp with the %haste/mastery trinket, which reduces our haste cap to 18.5k-ish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I can see that. Losing my 549 Primo gloves with BS socket (2k haste on gloves alone!) is going to SUCK, but the SoO loot tables looks like we can make that up in spades with the non-tier items. Esp with the %haste/mastery trinket, which reduces our haste cap to 18.5k-ish.
    T15 compare

    Using the T15 items, the highest haste per slot (first two are different chests, Raden chest vs ret chest) and the "best" HTF off-set item per slot for the other 4. If you notice, the one with the highest haste is the one with offset gloves. The only problem with that setup is you end up with almost 2k hit rating too. The only one that comes close in haste to that setup is the offset legs.



  19. #19
    With offset gloves, you could use the new tier gloves (exp/haste) to drop hit, although that would obviously require you to bonus roll them or wait for dps/healers to get their tier first. So the massive amount of hit wouldn't be a permanent problem.

  20. #20
    I was just using current T15 items, so he (and others) could have an idea what to go with if they wanted to use the 4p T15 bonus starting in Siege.



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