1. #1

    Legendary cloak progression question

    I haven't been able to find anywhere whether or not raid tuning is being done with the cloak procs in mind or not? Will those without cloaks not have enough dps/healing to kill bosses?
    Anyone have any info they can point me to?

  2. #2
    99% positive encounters will never be tuned with a single item in mind. You'll be fine most likely.

  3. #3
    The evidence you are looking for is that guilds have been clearing all the previous raids without the current legendary upgrades. This legendary questline is pretty much made this way in order to "nerf" current content without actually "nerfing" it.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The reasoning is simple: we want you to be able to use it for progression. Past legendaries (including the earlier bits of the Mists of Pandaria chain) have typically taken a pretty decent amount of time before you're able to get them. That's great for heading into the next tier (or finishing up the current one), but when the next tier is in a new expansion, it can leave them feeling a little... flat. You end up using them mostly for farm, and then you replace them once the next expansion hits and you outlevel them.
    Not sure about normals, but heroic modes? Definitely.

  5. #5
    The DPS ones are very lackluster in their current state. It's only a 2-3% DPS increase (about half a meta), which is easily compensated for by just playing better for most people. You'd be more behind missing either the meta or the cloak than just the cloak proc as a DPS, but getting the legendary version of the cloak will only take an hour or so on patch day.

    The healing one is insanely good. Our hybrid DPS might even take it over the DPS one depending on how tuning turns out. Hopefully they'll just be able to get both, but that's not currently possible on PTR.

    The tank one is just... kind of pointless. Tank deaths rarely halt progression, so unless the proc is required for a particular mechanic (and it doesn't look like it is), most tanks will just pick up the DPS one and do crazy damage since it scales with AP/Vengeance (just like the meta).

    So, lacking the healer one might make some bosses harder than they need to be, but the DPS and tank ones represent a fairly small gain. You should be able to complete LFR, Flex, and Normal no problem without the legendary cloaks on anyone in your raid. However, heroics will likely be a bit rougher in the early weeks without everyone in your raid having one, and especially healers (which should not really be a problem for heroic raiders).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    99% positive encounters will never be tuned with a single item in mind. You'll be fine most likely.
    Also, OG Nefarion says hi.

  6. #6
    Squirl
    Here is a guy (hunter) http://worldoflogs.com/reports/o7fo9...7yp/details/6/ was doing tests with new cloak on heroic Malkorok:
    Lightning Strike 10399615 10.6 % (meta gem)
    Flurry of Xuen 6350616 6.5 % (cloak)
    So this is pretty decent damage done/dps gain. This cloak on current state is doing same damage/dps as 2set bonus and 4 set bonus combined.
    And we (hunters) will have a new version of proc. Because right now its dumb, proc goes to our pet and he then cleaves boss/adds...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Also, OG Nefarion says hi.
    He said "will never be" not "never have been". I think the fact that you went as far back as OG Nef says it all. Blizzard hasn't done anything like that for a looooong ass time, and I HIGHLY doubt they're about to go back to it.

  8. #8
    It definitely could be different for other classes, but for rogues the damage is pretty terrible. I'll take a closer look at logs next time we do testing, but just looking at skada after pulls, it was only making up 2-3% of my damage while the meta was doing 7-8%. All the casters in my group had similar results with their cloak.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    It definitely could be different for other classes, but for rogues the damage is pretty terrible. I'll take a closer look at logs next time we do testing, but just looking at skada after pulls, it was only making up 2-3% of my damage while the meta was doing 7-8%. All the casters in my group had similar results with their cloak.
    I'm conflicted on this. On one hand I'm glad it's not "required" (though I think if people care about killing content at all and aren't getting it they're doing it wrong haha) but it also sucks to have a legendary that is really underwhelming.

  10. #10
    I had pulls where the damage of the proc did less than 2% of my overall damage dropping sometimes to 0.5 even on 5 minute + pulls. Underwhelming honestly wasn't enough to describe that not even mentioning the embarrassing animation.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    It definitely could be different for other classes, but for rogues the damage is pretty terrible. I'll take a closer look at logs next time we do testing, but just looking at skada after pulls, it was only making up 2-3% of my damage while the meta was doing 7-8%. All the casters in my group had similar results with their cloak.
    Had several tests with my DK (on the Dummy, but i guess a raid environment won't drastically change the relation here because when my DPS rises due to more buffs, etc. the procc will as well and the other way around) and I always averaged at 2.5-3.3%.

    Not too thrilling for a legendary that costs you even the 8 ilvl statupgrade on you epic cloak.

  12. #12
    Well, it's the simplest part of the Legendary quest line so I can't imagine it'd be some super duper uber omg dps increase just because it gains a proc. And since there's quite a lot of players without it still, even in some 13/13H guilds it'd be plain silly for Blizz to attempt to even adjust a raid based solely on everybody having the proccy cloak.
    @ the person bringing up nef... laws of the game has changed drastically. One could also bring up the TB trinket being near requirement for some fights in Cata. Luckily (we think) Blizz learned its lessons. So I'll stick with the 99.9999% positive stance of never single any encounters adjusted based on one item. However, that .00000001% in me thinks if they do, then it'll be next xpac early on.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    I had pulls where the damage of the proc did less than 2% of my overall damage dropping sometimes to 0.5 even on 5 minute + pulls. Underwhelming honestly wasn't enough to describe that not even mentioning the embarrassing animation.
    2% damage boost is huge for pushing week 1 Heroics. Guilds are spending 100+ gold per pull for a 25 stat increase with 300 food. Blood Legion's WF H Durumu kill was 0.7 seconds before enrage. So the majority of your raid having the legendary cloak could be the difference between 1-2% wipes and kills.

  14. #14
    ^ Yes, that is certainly true, but I think that the main point people are making is that this is the final step of the legendary chain - the orange itself - and its proc is being outperformed by a meta gem proc that is from 2 stages earlier. People have an expectation for it to be the most powerful item received, and I think that is fair.

    Of course this is only comparing procs, and not the fact that the cloak itself is 600il to begin with

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    2% damage boost is huge for pushing week 1 Heroics. Guilds are spending 100+ gold per pull for a 25 stat increase with 300 food. Blood Legion's WF H Durumu kill was 0.7 seconds before enrage. So the majority of your raid having the legendary cloak could be the difference between 1-2% wipes and kills.
    I didn't want to imply that it wouldn't be a huge asset nonetheless for heroic progress. I merely wanted to point out how unimpressive it was in comparison to previous legendaries or even certain simple epic weapons.

  16. #16

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  17. #17
    Mechagnome
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    I would assume so, Maybe not with everyone having cloak but HC modes at least will be tuned with cloaks in mind.

    The only thing that I think will be interesting to find out is how the fuck blizzard is going to tune the tank cloaking without making SoO impossible without it or super easy if you have it (if you missed it) Only way I see it working is blizzard makes all major boss abilities ignore the cloak proc and just kills the tank

    This way it would be kinda lame but I really cant see it working any other way if you are a guild that just got a new tank/reroll and a boss being unkillable because 1 of 10 ppl in your raid does not have the cloak seems like a bad idea

    This is assuming blizzard wont make SoO bosses drop like 10 secrets/sigils/runestones each as a catch up mechanic
    Last edited by Axelond; 2013-07-31 at 02:44 AM.

  18. #18
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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  19. #19
    Leather bags only have 8 slots. Who would buy those...

    Anyways, I think a better model for the tank cloak would be something like Dampen Harm. Just make it activate on hits for 50% or more of your hp and make it have like 3 charges with a ~1m cooldown. One free killing blow per minute seems worthless and almost every tank will opt for the DPS one if they stay the same.

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