View Poll Results: Do you like underwater levels.

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  • Yes

    287 53.45%
  • No

    250 46.55%
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  1. #21
    Vashj'ir sucked for me, I hated it and only did the entire quest line for my main, all my other alts never set foot on Vashj'ir, I hated Grizzly Hills on Wrath as well, only did the quest line on my main.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Personally I think it was a fantastic idea. It a different dynamic on movement having to consider what could be above, below, in front, behind, to the left or the right adds more depth to situational awareness.

    Also the scenery was awesome. Much better than the same ol' trees and grass. All the underwater caves, and monsters which had never before been seen by the land dwellers.

    Even the music was great.

    Of coarse this is my opinion of it. I regularly see the opposite opinion on these forums though.

    Tell me why you do or do not like underwater battles.

    Simply saying, "because they are dumb" is not constructive. Give actual reasons please.
    The scenery was a bit too much awesome, at the point of interfering with gameplay. I loved the style of combat of Vashj'ir, the quests where you took the body of a naga still precious in my mind.
    But the way we couldn't see 50 feet in front of our noses... That was a royal pain. Vashj'ir for me failed hard in geography (they corrected the mini-map later to compensate) and decoration, blocking the views.

  3. #23
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Why always the eyecatching whiney titles that must include words like "all" "the" and "hate"?

    There is no such all the hate. There is however reasoning. And sometimes I cannot even reason or explain.

    I loved what they did with Vashir. In theory. The sea legs. The sea pony. The story. The quests inside that giant shell. The quests where you become a Naga Spear maiden. It should have been great.

    And at the end of the day..I went there once and never ever again. i dunno why. Blizzard pressed all the right buttons (again...in theory) and it still didn't work (for me). But I won't hate a develper for trying sth new..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jaber2 View Post
    Vashj'ir sucked for me, I hated it and only did the entire quest line for my main, all my other alts never set foot on Vashj'ir, I hated Grizzly Hills on Wrath as well, only did the quest line on my main.

    I stand corrected. There is hate. And it is worse when people do not even attempt to explain
    Last edited by det; 2013-07-29 at 06:11 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  4. #24
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Oh, and I can't jump under water!

  5. #25
    Mechagnome manicwrath's Avatar
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    it gave me really really bad motion sickness. I mean I have never had to vomit ever during playing a game my entire life, hit that zone. vom after vom. going through that zone was torture. no matter what i did to prevent sickness didn't work. so yeah I honestly hope they don't add another zone like that.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Matt0193's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Water combat is horrible, especially as a melee. It's all fine and dandy being able to cast at a target ~somewhere~ in front of you, try moving towards it, and then the right height, and then oh nvm the target moved. 3D sucks.

    Vashj'ir was made well, but Water is just not fun to fight in. I've only ever done that place once - for guild rep - never will I go back.
    And this is all that needs be said about underwater zones. They're fine if you're a ranged, since you have a 40 yard half a sphere to aim at. Melee? We have to slowly swim over to the target and since not every class has Charge or Feral Charge, some classes get the long end of the shaft even worse. The only time I didn't want to quit Vashj was on my Warrior. My DK was bearable because DG allowed me to skip most of what I hated, but my Ret and Ehn? Never. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Oh, and I can't jump under water!
    And as a lifelong melee player, this is mandatory.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  7. #27
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    People shouldn't get the wrong idea that I hated Vash'jir. I thought it was interesting to do...once. Blizzard did a full underwater zone about as well as a fully underwater zone can be done given the game conditions. But it wasn't my cup of tea and given an alternative I'd probably take it. I think as an experiment it was given the best possible test and chance to succeed and a lot of people just didn't find it comfortable.

    The same thing goes for largely air-borne dungeons. The 3D thing is not something that people are comfortable with in a game world where 98% of the rest of what you do works well in more-or-less 2D (with the exception of the occasional bird descending out of the sky).
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  8. #28
    Water temple, in zelda.

    I'll never forget that horrible horrible place.

    OT: Vashjir was great, the story was alright, I just never liked maneuvering under water in any game. It always felt clunky and "limited."

    I've always been afraid of the ocean since I was a kid, guess that doesn't help either.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    People just don't like water levels, whether it's WoW, Sonic, or Mario lol, it's just not something people like to do
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    I can definitely appreciate the inability to place a spell marker on the ground while in the air. This should be improved upon.

    I really never understood why they need to be placed. It should center on a target's location. If the target moves, the spell can continue to channel on that spot.

    I can also sympathize with melee, as you do need to worry about more directions than forward or backward when lining up. But that is also the charm that makes it more difficult, which results in improving you as a player.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    And as a lifelong melee player, this is mandatory.
    I concur!.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  12. #32
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Many people don't really like to fight in a full 3D environment. It's not just underwater. It's any fight where stuff can come at you from any direction other than front-side-back.
    Rings true...especially since the other much maligned example includes....the Occulus. And I doubt too many loved Malygos.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  13. #33
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    I agree with the points above about 3D combat and really good looking zones, but every water level sucks.

    Ocarina of Rine Water Temple? Sucks
    Any Sonic water level? Sucks
    Ecco the dolphin? Worst game evar

    I liked Vashjir on my Mage, but not my pally
    "I feel bad for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." - Frank Sinatra

  14. #34
    Based on what we saw in Vashj'ir, there are four important factors that I believe make them relatively unpopular:

    - Movement was generally much slower, which made it feel tedious. It also made retreating from a bad situation difficult, if not impossible.
    - 3 dimensional movement can be jarring, and is trickier to navigate. Your map wasn't very helpful in this regard, either.
    - Initially, mobs hit hard, and had a lot of HP. This coupled with the above made it feel brutal to level in until you started to get gear.
    - You couldn't use any of your personal mounts, which matters to some more than you might think. It's the Sea Horse or nothing.

    That said, I personally enjoyed Vashj'ir a great deal.
    Last edited by Elementalkin; 2013-07-29 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Tidying up.

  15. #35
    It was neat, but no.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Most would disagree with you. And I believe that blizzard said the feedback on the zone was not great. I would not expect it.

    After seeing the zone once and never finishing the quests there I never went back on ANY alt characters.
    Thats total hearsay, they got ALOT of good feedback from the community as well as negative.

    I myself dont prefer underwater areas but Vashjir was done right. I think that and Twilight Highlands had by far the best story lines since The Wrathgate. I wouldnt like to see an underwater area for the hell of it but I sure wouldnt shun one away again like I did Vashjir in the beginning.

    The story with Euranok, The Warmaiden, WHALE SHARK and GIANT cloysters that were fucking demi-gods! All of it was awesome, water is so mysterious, thats why it makes for such an awesome place to level in games. You never know what creature be it powerful or just plain new and odd you will encounter.

    Plus we all know some of the most powerful things yet to be defeated on Azeroth wait in the water(Azshara and her naga's) so we should all expect to be sent back to the water someday.

    "Because one day, we will all be with you in the black and deep, one day we will all go into THE WATER!"

  17. #37
    Some of my friends thought I was crazy, but I had the "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" achievement on several of my toons. Most of my friends just did enough quests to get portal open and mount and that was all.
    I had a thought; How many here have the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea achievement?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Vashj'ir was an amazing questing zone imo. We need more.
    i agree, i love it. i do every quest there with every character that i level.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Noggis View Post
    Maybe because lots of class mechanics, usually the ones involving a reticle to place a spell on the ground, don't fucking work in a Z axis environment.
    Yep. Fix the problem with planar-targeted AoE abilities like Warrior's Heroic Leap or Water Elemental's Freeze, and you remove the major objection I have with the underwater thing.

    Beyond that, I hated Vashj'ir cos the story was fucking terrible. It was like playing in some 11-year-old's first D&D campaign with DM's Pet NPC, Maerunak Sue.

    You get attacked by a squid and almost die...Erunak saves you!
    You get attacked by Naga and are in danger of being overwhelmed...Erunak saves you!
    You get attacked by Naga and taken prisoner...Erunak saves you!
    You fight some more Naga later...Erunak saves you!
    You fight yet more Naga later...Erunak saves you!

    *at this point the twerp DM is being threatened with a very painful beatdown*

    Uhmm...the giant squid-monster captures Erunak after everything you did in the whole zone amounted to bupkis!

  20. #40
    Vash'ir is a beautiful zone, i'll give you that, but melee-combat in 3D with the perspective issues is a pain, looking for quest objectives in 3D is an even bigger pain (Oh, the quest objective is due north of me, is that north-up or north-down?), i liked the 1K needles quests though, was also underwater but not as deep, so finding quest objectives was a lot easier, judging distances to mobs was still troublesome though, but i loved the boat i got for that zone ^_^

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