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  1. #81
    The pulsing visual needs to be changed or added to, like having a perma blue ring on the outside marking the boundary (like the static shock graphic) otherwise we will be doing too much stutter stepping trying to find the boundary so we can maximize movement within the buff

  2. #82
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    http://tinypic.com/r/2ujgt5g/5

    Terrible pic of it, you have to see it to really...see it. If it was a video it'd be much better.

    Yeah caught the lines as they were fading...I got really spoiled with it and when I went back on live I got dissappointed and re-shackled.
    That... is faint as HELL.

    In the heat of battle, I can't be paying attention to tiny/faded blue lines! (Not that I would ever pick RoP to begin with, but... well, you get the idea.)

    I really don't get why they don't just make the RoP bigger. Would that really take all that much time and effort? At the very least, the circle needs to be brighter for this shit-fix.

  3. #83
    lmao @ those blue lines.

    I guess if you got used to the new range it wouldn't be that big of a deal, you would be able to eye ball it most of the time, especially with a weakaura of some sort that blinks red if you don't have the buff active.


    But honestly, even with the new range of the rune, it isn't gonna make that much of a difference for most of the fights in Siege.

  4. #84
    My guess is that they are working on it, but still you won't see it in 25 mans anyways, so nothing new in that department.

    Also haven't tried this but does planting a rune on shows the original size of the rune and not the circle that's the actual effective range? Cause if it only shows the rune.. it will be majorly annoying to plant properly in some situations.

  5. #85
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    Havent it been confirmed that there will be a rewamp of the 90 talents for next xpack?
    Nothing has been confirmed or set in stone as of yet.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Nothing has been confirmed or set in stone as of yet.
    Well more like nothing has been told to us..

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    That... is faint as HELL.

    In the heat of battle, I can't be paying attention to tiny/faded blue lines! (Not that I would ever pick RoP to begin with, but... well, you get the idea.)

    I really don't get why they don't just make the RoP bigger. Would that really take all that much time and effort? At the very least, the circle needs to be brighter for this shit-fix.
    It's brighter on the ptr. Let me get a better picture >_>



    It shows up terribly in screenies, in game I haven't had a problem finding the boundary as some of your are assuming. Not stutter stepping really neccesary to find it. Especially once you get used to it, you know where it ends.

    http://tinypic.com/r/51awbl/5
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-08-03 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #88
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Well more like nothing has been told to us..
    They have hinted at it and replied to tweets, but no promises have been made as opposed to what some people think.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    lmao @ those blue lines.

    I guess if you got used to the new range it wouldn't be that big of a deal, you would be able to eye ball it most of the time, especially with a weakaura of some sort that blinks red if you don't have the buff active.


    But honestly, even with the new range of the rune, it isn't gonna make that much of a difference for most of the fights in Siege.
    You are telling me 32 yards of rune of power, isn't enough? Because if 32 yards isn't enough, I'm not sure ANYTHING is enough.

    50 yards? 100 yards? 1000 yards?

  10. #90



    Here's an even better pic of it. The rings are pulsing, so it's "kinda" easy to spot exactly where to stand. This print was taken with the highest possible setting, so those of you that run on low might have a slightly more difficult time spotting these.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    You are telling me 32 yards of rune of power, isn't enough? Because if 32 yards isn't enough, I'm not sure ANYTHING is enough.

    50 yards? 100 yards? 1000 yards?
    Well, putting out two of them is a pretty substantial dps loss, believe it or not. Not a 50k dps loss, but it's a 2-3% dps loss by just putting out two of them, if not more.

    And no, looking at the fights, it will not be enough to make it up for the loss of dps Arcane will suffer due to heavy movement.

  11. #91
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    Well, putting out two of them is a pretty substantial dps loss, believe it or not. Not a 50k dps loss, but it's a 2-3% dps loss by just putting out two of them, if not more.

    And no, looking at the fights, it will not be enough to make it up for the loss of dps Arcane will suffer due to heavy movement.
    Where's your maths to prove this point, sorry?

    If, by casting a second rune you are minimizing downtime when not moving and can start DPSing upon arrival in the new Rune, how exactly are you losing DPS? Just make sure you're not casting the second Rune @ ~92%+ mana so you don't cap out and it's not a full waste of the buff? Sure you're not DPSing but you're still not "wasting" the Rune buff so it's not a complete loss; it's better than consuming your mana in cycles until you have to move, then re-casting your new Rune once you're in position, because then when you're casting the new Rune you're not gaining anything, you're simply losing.

    Even if it is a DPS loss to cast 2, it's definitely not 2-3%, if anything it's so minor if you're actually going to move in between the two it's not really worth thinking about. For 2 GCDs you're given free movement now within a fair amount of space for 1 minute - Invocation only differs by allowing more range of movement, not necessarily travelling further - because if you have to move 32 yards that suddenly; unless it's planning you're doing something wrong anyway.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    Well, putting out two of them is a pretty substantial dps loss, believe it or not. Not a 50k dps loss, but it's a 2-3% dps loss by just putting out two of them, if not more.

    And no, looking at the fights, it will not be enough to make it up for the loss of dps Arcane will suffer due to heavy movement.
    2-3% is not substantial. Usually, that's not even enough to get you out of the error range.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Where's your maths to prove this point, sorry?

    If, by casting a second rune you are minimizing downtime when not moving and can start DPSing upon arrival in the new Rune, how exactly are you losing DPS? Just make sure you're not casting the second Rune @ ~92%+ mana so you don't cap out and it's not a full waste of the buff? Sure you're not DPSing but you're still not "wasting" the Rune buff so it's not a complete loss; it's better than consuming your mana in cycles until you have to move, then re-casting your new Rune once you're in position, because then when you're casting the new Rune you're not gaining anything, you're simply losing.

    Even if it is a DPS loss to cast 2, it's definitely not 2-3%, if anything it's so minor if you're actually going to move in between the two it's not really worth thinking about. For 2 GCDs you're given free movement now within a fair amount of space for 1 minute - Invocation only differs by allowing more range of movement, not necessarily travelling further - because if you have to move 32 yards that suddenly; unless it's planning you're doing something wrong anyway.
    Ontop of that with new ice floes, you can cast it while moving, which then turns your 0 dps movement as arcane, into saving 2 gcds for when you are standing still, which with the large area of it...turns out to be a dps gain.

    People are definitely over-glorifying the movement involved next tier. I've seen the fights and have friends who have tested them, they all say there really isn't as much movement as people are leading us to believe. Some fights are heavy movement, others just require a little movement like the tot fights. Also two rop's cast time is the same as 1 invocation...so. In comparison theres no dps loss. Ontop of that lhivera was able to send my info on the bugged cloak proc to someone at blizz, who are now looking into it. The cloak proc once fixed will do a lot as arcane, which will also help it's dps in general.

    Right now I think arcane is fine, fire can't tell yet, with the rppm nerf it MAY be fine. Not sure. May need a small pyroblast dmg nerf. Otherwise frost still needs some buffs to keep up with arcane/fire next tier. But frost will be in the general ballpark, still slightly behind.

  14. #94
    Its around 1,6 to 2,5% loss in active dps time depending on your haste. Now you do have mana regen still when you do it, so it doesn't translate to dps straight away, but it's still a loss if you have option to use Ice Floes or PoM when you actually have to move..

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Its around 1,6 to 2,5% loss in active dps time depending on your haste. Now you do have mana regen still when you do it, so it doesn't translate to dps straight away, but it's still a loss if you have option to use Ice Floes or PoM when you actually have to move..
    It's better than on fights where you need to CONSTANTLY replace rop, talk about a dps loss. This large area will prevent that.

    Not sure why people like to constantly make arguements, with 0 math to back it up, that next tier will destroy arcanes dps. It's just not going to happen, unless you have TESTED the fights, or seen them all and had friends that tested them like me. You don't know how much movement there is or isn't other than what you hear which is usually "ZAMG SUPA MOVEMENT ARCANE BAD"...Literally, that's most of the arguements against arcane, they have no merit to them and they just aren't true. I wish people would bring in facts rather than blandly stating things with no proof or anything to back it up.

    So many people are so anti-arcane, I don't know why. They don't even care if arcane is viable at all because THEIR spec is viable, aka fire. Because THEIR spec is fine, who gives a fuck about others. People pin it on me that my attitude of wanting fire nerfed is bad against mages etc. When in reality so is theirs. Rather than trying to provide reason and context on why arcane would be good or bad next tier, they just go "lolmovementfromwhatihear".

    These arguements are annoying and obnoxious. People have been villainizing me because I want fire on arcanes level, when most of these people would just rather have fire do 200k more dps than any other class and be okay with that. That's not okay. No it's not. IF which I know there isn't as MUCH movement as you say next tier, I hope you realize yes fire does okay with movement it still isn't optimal, and you won't be getting high ignites rolling with scorch spam that is for sure. It's a huge dps loss to scorch over fireball. So stop wishing this heavy movement bullshit on arcane, and bring in the damned proof. TELL ME the mechanics in EACH FIGHT that makes it heavy movement. TELL ME where you have this "super movement" that will wreck arcanes dps.

    Oh you can't can you. Didn't think so.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-08-03 at 07:47 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Where's your maths to prove this point, sorry?

    If, by casting a second rune you are minimizing downtime when not moving and can start DPSing upon arrival in the new Rune, how exactly are you losing DPS? Just make sure you're not casting the second Rune @ ~92%+ mana so you don't cap out and it's not a full waste of the buff? Sure you're not DPSing but you're still not "wasting" the Rune buff so it's not a complete loss; it's better than consuming your mana in cycles until you have to move, then re-casting your new Rune once you're in position, because then when you're casting the new Rune you're not gaining anything, you're simply losing.

    Even if it is a DPS loss to cast 2, it's definitely not 2-3%, if anything it's so minor if you're actually going to move in between the two it's not really worth thinking about. For 2 GCDs you're given free movement now within a fair amount of space for 1 minute - Invocation only differs by allowing more range of movement, not necessarily travelling further - because if you have to move 32 yards that suddenly; unless it's planning you're doing something wrong anyway.
    I'm sorry, I should've been more specific. I wasn't comparing 2 Runes of Power to one Rune of Power really. I was comparing it to the other talents where we would never have to do such a thing. A lot of movement gimps Rune of Power users and that was the meaning of my post.

    Perhaps I shouldn't have said 3%, but on a fight with 85% uptime on the boss (high movement where you can't lay out new Runes + "immunity phases" perhaps, whatever) and a 1.25 sec cast (a lot lower if you're going for a haste build though, but you really won't with the new RPPM system) results in 2% less downtime on the boss due to the second Rune alone, comparable to a 2% dps loss.

    This is the reason why I think Rune of Power should be limited to 1 spot, but instant cast, or off the GCD, but with a 3-5 sec CD. I really dislike this talent and it's actually the only reason why I haven't even tried Arcane in MoP yet (even though it's my favorite spec)

  17. #97
    Once the scaling with the cloak is fixed, it's going to add a lot of damage to arcane, by the way. The cloak will do well with fire b/c of all the crit, but for arcane it's going to scale exponentially, so will fires, but not as exponential as the arcane one.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post

    Oh you can't can you. Didn't think so.
    Well constant movement does still ruin it(unless you multidot NT), as AB and AM are both casted while standing still, so you have to be able to stop a lot. But for fights that you need to move every 10 seconds, it prolly won't even be bad, at least if you don't need to cast another RoP each time or get to the exact same spot anymore as your rune's effective range is a lot bigger. It kinda all depends on timings and with arcane you can have a hard time if the timing are random, if you know you have to move, it's a np really I think, at least if the movement is not outside of your rune and you can't return back to your rune.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Well constant movement does still ruin it(unless you multidot NT), as AB and AM are both casted while standing still, so you have to be able to stop a lot. But for fights that you need to move every 10 seconds, it prolly won't even be bad, at least if you don't need to cast another RoP each time or get to the exact same spot anymore as your rune's effective range is a lot bigger. It kinda all depends on timings and with arcane you can have a hard time if the timing are random, if you know you have to move, it's a np really I think, at least if the movement is not outside of your rune and you can't return back to your rune.
    I usually don't do amazing on fights the first few pulls, this is for the fact I am finding where I need to place my runes so I can most efficiently minimize my movement between them. This is how I usually end up with good #'s. Arcane isn't about the rotation as much as it's about minimizing your movement.

    Once I have it figured out, my dmg usually skyrockets as I have very little down time. The whole dble blink glyph will help a lot with this, and ill take ice floes over blazing speed.


    Keep in mind, fire loses dps while moving too, and arcane on live anyway does higher #'s standing still than fire does. Once you add movement they both pretty much equal out from what i've seen on live..Except for durumu..lol.

    Lei shen I destroyed our fire mage. That fight is all about positioning, and wrecking the adds.


    On council I don't multi-dot the full time because we need a lot of single target nuking, however IF I did multi-dot the whole time...I'd pull ahead of fires combustion spreading.

    When it comes to cleave/multi-target, honestly arcane is pulling ahead. The multi-dotting only gets stronger with mastery and once the cloak effect is in live, it aoes...Since it'll be stronger as arcane that'll pull ahead too. I forsee arcane doing very well despite all the naysaying.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-08-03 at 08:02 PM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Once the scaling with the cloak is fixed, it's going to add a lot of damage to arcane, by the way. The cloak will do well with fire b/c of all the crit, but for arcane it's going to scale exponentially, so will fires, but not as exponential as the arcane one.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue with you about this, but how does it scale exponentially with arcane? I don't see anywhere it could double dip in any proc mechanic or anything. Arcane Charges won't increase the damage of it either, so I don't think I'm following you. Or have they updated the proc to something else?

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