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  1. #41
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    fair enough Synstir, that's a line of thouhgt I can get behind, that's well done and well said

  2. #42
    Wrath of the Lich King had a decline in subscribers in the west since nearly launch. It's only because WoW got released in China that the 'total' graph shows an overall increase of subscribers since launch of WotLK.
    ^This

    Every X-pack have bleeded subs after the launch. Taking the high peak of the beginning of WotLK and then comparing it to the end of an X-pack cycle is just dumb. WotLK was bleeding subs from patch 3.2 and onwards.

    The incredible thing is that WoW still has close to 8 million subs - in a 9 year old game. Pretty amazing tbh.

  3. #43
    People should stop blind GC hate because he is not responsible for everything in the game. For example GC wants flying mounts gone but did that happen? There are other countless devs who are involved

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    It's a team effort but the buck must stop with GC.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    ^This

    Every X-pack have bleeded subs after the launch. Taking the high peak of the beginning of WotLK and then comparing it to the end of an X-pack cycle is just dumb. WotLK was bleeding subs from patch 3.2 and onwards.

    The incredible thing is that WoW still has close to 8 million subs - in a 9 year old game. Pretty amazing tbh.
    And yet the total number of subs where still increasing till cata.
    So somewhere something changed.......right?

    And, agreed that after all this time still 7 million + subs, that is an achievement.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Because Ghostcrawler apparently only is good at 'accessibility' and adding more queue-buttons for everything, and making multiple difficulties out of the same content.
    MM: GC we're down to 7.7 million!

    GC: NP, more queue buttons 5.4 chill.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    People should stop blind GC hate because he is not responsible for everything in the game. For example GC wants flying mounts gone but did that happen? There are other countless devs who are involved
    We do not blind gate GC, you people protecting him should take off blindfolds.

    Game is old yes nd to still have 7 millions subscribers is because previous warcraft series. Without them this game would be on same place as rift or GW2.

    I blame GC for all unbalance in game, becase he is the most responsible for it. Developers have PTR and beta realms and lots of feedback from forums and arena tournaments and yet they still can't fix anything? I blame him that he destroyed game during WOLTK with those stupid DK's and paladins. And after that it was only decline...

    HEck in MoP we had one-shotting warlocks walking around... this should NEVER EVER be released on live realms... but yet they still done it. So I call him being incompetent idiot. After so much data and analysis there is still no solution. Same for botting problem. Blizzard don't care about that.

    On other hand WoW has nicely done combat style, animations and quests. But I doubt GC has much word there. He is mainly working on classes and balance which isn't there. So how can you say he made a good job? It's a poor job or nearly nothing was done. At least not in right direction.

    We saw before: mages OP and they still buff them! Rogues OP and they let them stunlock targets. Druids and paladins being unkillable and they let them. DK's being unkillable and being able to kill any other class in few GCD's. Just a few examples of previous expansions... you people just forget those mistakes too fast.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Yeah. I can't wait for Rob Compadro to remove the queue-buttons from the dungeon and raid finder panels. Now that's what I call inaccessible! It's basically gonna be the return of attunements. If you can find the clickable spot, you're worthy of the content.
    It feels to me like you started being sarcastic about RP returning, and then halfway through changed your mind and started being sarcastic about the queue system and all the people who use it?

  9. #49
    Basically it looks like Blizzard, and not GC specifically, is not aware of what really brought their game to 12.000.000 subs in the first place and what is needed to keep most of them, not all cause that doesn't seem real. Anyways losing almost 50% of subs should make some alarmbells ring.
    I'm with you.
    Problem is not releated to one man, I think the problem is from the point of view and the path that they want to go with WoW. But that is just my opinion.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hi Det,

    It looks like you love wow as much (or almost as much) as I do :-)

    I agree when you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Maybe 7.7 million subs after over 8 years IS an amzing achievement. Maybe any other team would have crashed and burned the game by now.
    But at the same time I also see a decline starting from 12.000.000 to 7.7 million now; I don't know if you realize this but that is almost 50% subs gone. How great of a game wow is, you can't be telling me that a decline of 50% of the subs rubs away just because after 8.5 years wow has still 7.7 million players and all other games not even a fraction of that?

    I also hope you can see that if nothing is done against this, it will be a disaster tot this game?

    The decline started with cata and is going on untill now and most lilely it will proceed after this patch.. and that concerns me. Blizzard is trying hard but the decline is a fact and also Blizzard, up untill now, hasn't been able to stop it. So I think they don't know how to do that.... do you think they do know it? If yes... why didn't they stop it?

    And you also come with the age of wow. But that age is only for those who play it since launch. I started 6 years ago, so the game is 6 years old to me. I got friends who just started a year ago.... wow is 1 year old to them. The game is still the biggest on the market and I believe it still has the potential to have 12.000.000 players.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    I do beg your Pardo?
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Etrigan View Post
    It feels to me like you started being sarcastic about RP returning, and then halfway through changed your mind and started being sarcastic about the queue system and all the people who use it?
    It's a secret to everybody.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLoki View Post
    Nothing will happen to GC because he does not design raids nor expansions, he didn't implement those endless dailies, he didn't decide to destroy world pvp, he didn't decide to replace future dungeons with scenarios, he doesn't write wow's lore, he doesn't decide future classes nor races, chances are that he didn't changed whatever aspect of the game you liked the most, people hates him and they don't even know what he really does. lol
    That's true, even if I will never forgive him for introducing Chakra to holy priests. Worst design ever.

    Still, he did some good stuff as well, and the game is losing subs because its old and outdated, not because its quality decreased or increased.

  14. #54
    @Synstir:

    The game is down to 7.7 million subs - not 6 million. So it's about a 33% loss. Try comparing that to the corresponding time in WotLK - that would be near the end of patch 3.2. It's hard to find what the actual number of subsribers were at that time - but just before Cataclysm launched, WoW peaked at 12 million: - so it's safe to assume that it was lower earlier in WotLK.

    Since then, it has dropped - but again with a peak when MoP launched. I don't think this has anything to do with GC, but since I play a hybrid char (druid), I enjoy what he has done with the game (basically, GC has balanced the game, so a lot more classes and specs are now viable in PvE and PvP; but that has been at the expense of warriors/mage/priests/rogues, who aren't the kings any more).

    I think the following reasons stand out:
    - Since WotLK, the game has become much harder. At its easiest (tier 7, new Naxxramas), you basically turned up in Naxx in your green quest items and started to collect your epics (Naxx 25 was cleared by raiders wearing Sunwell epics from TBC - that's how easy it was). Heroics were a joke and normal mobs were just steamrolled with aoe. This happened because Blizzard made the starting raids, heroics and leveling areas in TBC really hard. So, at the end of TBC, Blizzard nerfed all mobs with 30% (!) and the trend continued in WotLK. Easy = more players.

    - MoP doesn't have a main adversary, like Lich King in WotLK and Death Wing in Cata. Instead, MoP wants us to focus on the conflict between Horde and Alliance. This was a bad decision imo - it makes it very hard to keep a simple goal for most players, and instead just sends the message of "Hey, enjoy the ride instead of focusing on reaching a certain destination!". Very zen - but not a good business decision. Especially not when the "conflict" de-escalates (c wat I did thar?) into Horde and Alliance cooperating against a Sha-infested Garrosh. Would have been way more appropriate if Horde just wanted to annihilate Alliance. THAT would have been in-line with the stated intension.

    - Too much focus on LFR, too little focus on 5 man heroics. Combined with the 5 man heroics being way too easy (when you don't have to use CC at all in a 5 man heroic = too easy), these are now back to aoe rotations and easy bosses. Challenge modes are fun, but 5 man heroics should be fun (= hard) as well. I wonder if any of the level 90 5 mans are ever done on Normal?

    - Too much rep grinding in MoP and not a proper reward at the end. I enjoy the changes and scenarios you unlock when raising the rep in certain areas (Operation: Shieldwall), but I actually enjoyed grinding the rep more in TBC to be able to do Heroics at all (you had to get to Revered with certain factions to unlock the dungeons). Now, you get a scenario, some more story - and that's it.

    So, even though the devs lowered the difficulty in 5 man heroics (which should have sustained subs), the lack of a clear identifiable adversary, 5 man heroics and rep grinding pulled in the other direction.

    Mists of Pandaria is kind of a fitting name - the mists have clouded the vision of the expansion, with only the face of a Panda remaining. You can even see that in the promotional vids for the expansions:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHL...-iz0pkQIdjNjsb
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7...-iz0pkQIdjNjsb
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4Y...-iz0pkQIdjNjsb
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYX...-iz0pkQIdjNjsb

    Seen from a story-telling PoV, I still think that the WotLK and Cata videos were best - and delivered most honestly compared to how the expansion actually played out.

  15. #55
    Did the ceo of EA really have anything to do with the failed launch of Sim City? Of course he didn't but he got canned none the less.

    When things go badly, someone gets fired and it tends to be the guy that's at the top. Right now it's not going so hot for WoW so it really wouldn't be a big shock to see some people get replaced. It doesn't matter if they are at fault or not. When things go right your a hero, when they do not your a zero.

  16. #56
    About the age of the game, just because you only play the game for a day or a week won't make it new, it's like calling a car that was manufactured 30 years ago new just because you have just laid your eyes on it.

    Some mechanics like the outdated targeting based combat system, the gear based progression where new tiers and expansions automaticaly make the previous ones obsolete, Blink/Charge not functioning properly and so on, have been unchanged since launch. There are solutions to many of these, yet no advances have been made and this is why people who care about those things leave.

    Many play just so they can say they play World of Warcraft, in love with the art style or simply invisted too much time to leave. But if you scrach all that away and look under the emotional paint there is nothing that would really glue anybody who experienced the other MMOs out there to WoW.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    ht tp: //i.imgur. com /xzohXU1. png

    I saw this post on reddit. Also, many people seem to think Rob is coming back for expansion 5 but I have heard nothing about it till now.
    Is this correct?

    If Rob is indeed coming back and is being given the creative freedom, I think expansion 5 might be something very amazing. Let us not forget that most of the Titan team is now working on WoW too.

    Rob Padro's team's last creation in WoW was Ulduar. However, if Rob is back, does this mean GC gets shunted to some other department? It does make sense, I mean GC has not been able to even stop the decline in subs and at some point the shareholders and consumers just want change of leadership to breath some fresh life into things.

    Anyone knows more about this?
    GC is lead Systems Designer, not Lead designer.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numeanor View Post
    I don't know... 8+ years and we still can't get any PvE and PvP balance because of that guy? And we still have FOTM classes all the time...? He is the main reason many people unsub form the game.
    The game has never been balanced, it never will be. Welcome to the Real World.

    All GC and friends can do is plug the leaks in the dam when they find them, but new leaks are inevitable.

  19. #59
    The Lightbringer serenka's Avatar
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    maybe, im sure blizzard did say that some of the old devs were coming back from Titan since it got reset.
    dragonmaw - EU

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Saying GC couldn't stop sub loss is most certainly a knock against him.
    No it isn't. It's saying he couldn't stop sub loss. In no way does that imply anything negative about him on a personal level, and not really even on a professional level. The losses of subs aren't really even attributable to anything GC has or hasn't done. WoW is very much a team effort. They gain subs as a team, they lose subs as a team. No one person is bigger than the project.

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