Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I doubt this unless Padro [sic] begins to tweet and make blog posts in as public a manner as Street does. A great deal of the silliness directed at GC is, in fact, shooting the messenger and little else.
    Which is pretty silly and thoughtless on GC's end, in my opinion. Tweeting about stuff his own department isn't even responsible for... I don't know, does he do it on purpose to pretend he's bigger than he really is?
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Which is pretty silly and thoughtless on GC's end, in my opinion. Tweeting about stuff his own department isn't even responsible for... I don't know, does he do it on purpose to pretend he's bigger than he really is?
    All the departments collaborate. Also, since GC has become the de facto spokesperson, they probably just pass him info to say.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Which is pretty silly and thoughtless on GC's end, in my opinion. Tweeting about stuff his own department isn't even responsible for... I don't know, does he do it on purpose to pretend he's bigger than he really is?
    Well GC isn't that low on the totem pole. For WoW development it goes Tom Chilton as the Lead Producer of WoW -> GC as the Lead Systems designer and under him are the teams like the UI team and class team. Cory Stockton/Mumper the Lead Content Designer is at the same level as GC and under him are the content teams such as Dave Kosak and the quest team. Chilton, GC, and Stockton are more or less the main people heading WoW.

  4. #84
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Which is pretty silly and thoughtless on GC's end, in my opinion. Tweeting about stuff his own department isn't even responsible for... I don't know, does he do it on purpose to pretend he's bigger than he really is?
    I doubt if he feels like he has to 'pretend' anything and the suggestion that he does feel some need to enlarge himself is laughable. I'm certain that if he was tweeting anything out-of-bounds on a consistent basis, he'd get a call from Morhaime asking him to ramp it back a bit. "Pretend to be bigger than he is": Ha ha ha. People will reach for anything to find something to criticize. He's pretty much the de facto voice of Blizzard for World of Warcraft. I'm certain that if he stopped communicating at all, people--yourself included--would be in here complaining about that too.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-30 at 09:10 PM.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  5. #85
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Twitch & Youtube
    Posts
    18,745
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    He is not the sole person responsible for those decisions.
    He is just the outlet through which most are communicated.

    Correlation does not equal causation.
    The numbers do not lie, players do.
    The game suffers from all sorts of issues, not least it being nearly 10 years old and on what is now a minority business model.
    The original young audience without many real life commitments are now grown up and with real life responsibilities.
    There are too many factors to blame a single person, and the persistent attempts to do so prove those people to be ignorant.
    Pardo had the good luck of being on the team during the post-WC3 years. When they could find an award-winning story just by throwing darts at a board with WC3 villains on it.

    GC had to lead the game into being solely about WoW, not about wrapping up WC3 storylines. And it's worked a bit, but has been vastly overshadowed by the disaster that was the Cataclysm itself.
    Human Female Gladiator (DPS Prot) Warrior. Wyrmrest Accord - US.

    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    Better version of my avatar.

  6. #86
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Training with Batman in the Batcave
    Posts
    802
    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    Well GC isn't that low on the totem pole. For WoW development it goes Tom Chilton as the Lead Producer of WoW -> GC as the Lead Systems designer and under him are the teams like the UI team and class team. Cory Stockton/Mumper the Lead Content Designer is at the same level as GC and under him are the content teams such as Dave Kosak and the quest team. Chilton, GC, and Stockton are more or less the main people heading WoW.
    Thank god, somebody realised you can't blame one single guy for changes. He has a team, there's other people working on stuff that is of equal value and there's somebody above him.

    I don't think Rob's comeback will make a life changing difference. Blizzard needs to realise their own flaws and correct them. The majority of the players may be their main concern, but they are not always right in every decision.

    Now I know people will come with all kinds of fallacies in order to portray Blizzard as a bunch of greedy bastards that will do everything for the sake of money (Cause you know... they are a market of their own). But even they can't be so stupid as to not notice that people become more rebellious, unsub more often and just do what they have always done.
    Last edited by DrMcNinja; 2013-07-30 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #87
    Correlation does not equal causation.
    I wish people would stop spouting this in every thread. You know what? Sometimes it does.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

    Game developers hate healers. We prevent their bosses from killing the players.

    "MMOC forums let me keep my job again. Whew." -Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I doubt if he feels like he has to 'pretend' anything and the suggestion that he does feel some need to enlarge himself is laughable. I'm certain that if he was tweeting anything out-of-bounds on a consistent basis, he'd get a call from Morhaime asking him to ramp it back a bit. "Pretend to be bigger than he is": Ha ha ha. People will reach for anything to find something to criticize. He's pretty much the de facto voice of Blizzard for World of Warcraft. I'm certain that if he stopped communicating at all, people--yourself included--would be in here complaining about that too.
    Go pick up some pom poms and become his cheerleader or something? :P

    I personally think it's isn't too wise of him to tweet about stuff other departments do. Having to carry all the hatred aimed at him. People might say it's not a problem because he could just ignore it and shrug it off, but ... only this week we had the example of the developer of Fez going on a nerdrage and telling customers to go kill themselves because of criticism they gave his game.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  9. #89
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,839
    Quote Originally Posted by DrMcNinja View Post
    Thank god, somebody realised you can't blame one single guy for changes. He has a team, there's other people working on stuff that is of equal value and there's somebody above him.

    I don't think Rob's comeback will make a life changing difference. Blizzard needs to realise their own flaws and correct them. The majority of the players may be their main concern, but they are not always right in every decision.
    It's impossible to know anything like this but I sometimes wonder if the intellectual design vision behind Cataclysm and MoP--which according to legend weren't really mapped out before launch like BC/Wrath were--were less driven by specific Blizzard personalities and more by committee. Group-think and design-by-committee would explain some of the generic feeling to the game of late although I will be the very first to say that coming up with truly new stuff for a game this well-established, i.e. 'old', would challenge all of the critics here and elsewhere. But it's a natural progression once something is commercially successful to remove the 'vision piece' from a single individual or very small group and spread it out more to play it safe.

    Just a random thought I've been having for about a year now. I like WoW still and have enjoyed MoP but I think it really is missing something elusive and trying to step back from my own memories of the game I don't think it's all nostalgia. I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

    EDIT: What I'm sort of trying to get across is that some sort of a major story arc that extended from vanilla through Wrath came to a conclusion at the end of Wrath and everything since has been episodic at best. Cataclysm really had nothing much to do with Wrath and even less to do with MoP and I don't think that the next expansion is going to really have a lot to do with either of those two either. So maybe that's where the immersion or whatever it is that people are missing comes from. It feels very episodic at this point. If the next expansion is more driven by a fork from the BC arc, then that might provide more of a sustaining arc to the whole.

    It bothers me a lot that I can't quite get to what I want to say but it's really very tenuous.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-30 at 09:50 PM.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    I wish people would stop spouting this in every thread. You know what? Sometimes it does.
    No. It doesn't. Correlation by itself is not enough to determine causation. Sometimes a correlation can lead to a causation being determined, but that requires further investigation to weed out the confounding variables.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #91
    Thank god, somebody realised you can't blame one single guy for changes. He has a team, there's other people working on stuff that is of equal value and there's somebody above him.
    He is the head of his team though. He has final say on what to present to Morhaime. You think Morhaime is going to go through all the data to make sure GC is doing his job? He takes what GC thinks is a good idea and discusses it with the other heads to see how it will affect the game in general in their weekly meetings. For all intents and purposes, GC is the one responsible for balance at the end of the day because what his team does, he presents to his boss and counter-parts in the other departments. I'm not saying everything is his fault, but his vision is the one that his department runs with.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

    Game developers hate healers. We prevent their bosses from killing the players.

    "MMOC forums let me keep my job again. Whew." -Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Go pick up some pom poms and become his cheerleader or something? :P

    I personally think it's isn't too wise of him to tweet about stuff other departments do. Having to carry all the hatred aimed at him. People might say it's not a problem because he could just ignore it and shrug it off, but ... only this week we had the example of the developer of Fez going on a nerdrage and telling customers to go kill themselves because of criticism they gave his game.
    I'm sure Ghostcrawler is happy you are concerned about his feelings and all but he's a big boy. And you unwittingly raise a good point about Ghostcrawler and his de facto position as WoW's spokesperson; Blizzard as a company are famous for recalcitrance at communicating with their playerbases. Their wasn't a Ghostcrawler equivalent in PR relations prior to his arrival, they aren't other heads of department being jostled out of the limelight by his attention hogging tweets. When it comes to PR about WoW or any insight to the dev process apart from the fluff pieces which they occasionally bring it is and always has been Ghostcrawler or nothing. There isn't another guy waiting in the shadows with a more silvered tongue better suited to dealing with WoW's diverse community; when he goes Blizzard will just go back to their uncommunicative ways which prior to GC they were famous for.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    He is the head of his team though. He has final say on what to present to Morhaime. You think Morhaime is going to go through all the data to make sure GC is doing his job? He takes what GC thinks is a good idea and discusses it with the other heads to see how it will affect the game in general in their weekly meetings. For all intents and purposes, GC is the one responsible for balance at the end of the day because what his team does, he presents to his boss and counter-parts in the other departments. I'm not saying everything is his fault, but his vision is the one that his department runs with.
    GC wouldn't be the one talking to Morhaime. That'd be his boss, Tom Chilton, that does that.

  14. #94
    No. It doesn't. Correlation by itself is not enough to determine causation. Sometimes a correlation can lead to a causation being determined, but that requires further investigation to weed out the confounding variables.
    There is no way to determine it though because Blizzard doesn't release that information, and for good reason honestly. Doesn't change the fact that you can look at the situation and come to your own conclusions. I'm not writing a thesis paper that I have to provide evidence to every moron repeating this mantra. I am simply looking at the circumstances involved. Often times, the simplest explanation is correct. Even if I can't prove it, that doesn't change the very real possibility that this thing is in fact causing this other thing.

    Regarding Blizzard sub-loss, it is not any one thing, but a combination of many. It is still perfectly reasonable to take a look at when GC started at Blizz, and when sub-loss started and form an educated guess that there is a very good chance he is partially responsible.

    Mostly I'm just annoyed with people saying this over and over and over and over...
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

    Game developers hate healers. We prevent their bosses from killing the players.

    "MMOC forums let me keep my job again. Whew." -Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    There isn't another guy waiting in the shadows with a more silvered tongue better suited to dealing with WoW's diverse community; when he goes Blizzard will just go back to their uncommunicative ways which prior to GC they were famous for.
    I guess you started playing during WotLK?

    Blizzard was very communicative on the forums and held discussion about every aspect of the game even long before Ghostcrawler. Else Tseric wouldn't have been fired for his nerdraging against the playerbase either over the shaman class-design.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  16. #96
    Can I ask what has Pardo been working on to prevent his input in World of Warcraft? It's just, looking at his wikipedia page, his latest work is on Diablo 3 and people bawed with the force of ten thousand oceans when that was released.

  17. #97
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I guess you started playing during WotLK?

    Blizzard was very communicative on the forums and held discussion about every aspect of the game even long before Ghostcrawler. Else Tseric wouldn't have been fired for his nerdraging against the playerbase either over the shaman class-design.
    Tseric was a community manager, not a developer. Community managers communicate at times. Developers are not required to and when they do it's usually seen as a good thing. GC for better or worse probably sends out more information about what's going on with the game since he's been tweeting about it than the rest of the CM's combined.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    ht tp: //i.imgur. com /xzohXU1. png

    I saw this post on reddit. Also, many people seem to think Rob is coming back for expansion 5 but I have heard nothing about it till now.
    Is this correct?

    If Rob is indeed coming back and is being given the creative freedom, I think expansion 5 might be something very amazing. Let us not forget that most of the Titan team is now working on WoW too.

    Rob Padro's team's last creation in WoW was Ulduar. However, if Rob is back, does this mean GC gets shunted to some other department? It does make sense, I mean GC has not been able to even stop the decline in subs and at some point the shareholders and consumers just want change of leadership to breath some fresh life into things.

    Anyone knows more about this?

    it was stated shortly after mop they were already working on 6.0 and he was back.

  19. #99
    My opinion: GC isn't going anywhere. Pardo will have a role, perhaps a major one but GC will be lead designer still. Doesn't really matter. GC isn't some irrational dictator who won't listen to anyone despite what many on the forums seem to want to believe. All evidence points to Blizzard trying to arrive at a general consensus on any major decision before making a move.

    Pardo being a part of the equation, is of course, good news. He's talented. GC still being lead designer is also good news. It means Blizzard management isn't a bunch of reactionary idiots.

  20. #100
    GC wouldn't be the one talking to Morhaime. That'd be his boss, Tom Chilton, that does that.
    There's a lot more people above him than you think. He leads the developper group, but in any company it has to go past executives aswell.
    My point was that there is a chain of command, and the person above cannot micro-manage what everyone below them is doing. That's why they have people below them. GC tells them this will work and why, and they trust him to do his job. I highly doubt Chilton is cross examining every desicion that is made in systems development. The higher up you go, the more priorites change, and those people won't give two shits if Mages are over-powered. That is GC's job, and when mistakes happen, it is his fault because of the responsibility he has for his team, as well as to his bosses. When people quit because Mages are over-powered, that is directly his fault, and his alone.

    I agree with the other people here saying that GC is not solely responsible for every bad decision that is made, but he also doesn't do himself any favors when he talks about other departments as if he has final input in the overall direction they take. I do think that he has a lot of influence in the direction the game is taking overall, but it is silly to blame him for everything when some things are completely out of his control.
    Last edited by Amerrol; 2013-07-30 at 10:29 PM.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

    Game developers hate healers. We prevent their bosses from killing the players.

    "MMOC forums let me keep my job again. Whew." -Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •