1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Is prot not for me?

    Hello, I recently got my paladin to 90, and I lvled 1-85 as prot in dungeons (raf), and then rolled retri through Pandaria.

    In low lvls I found prot pretty fun, many buttons to press good damage and survivability, but now when I am 90 with only 447 ilvl it feels really dull, just spamming buttons in a rotation. Retri feels a bit more fun, the big damage from templars verdict and it feels pretty smooth.

    My main is a brewmaster monk, which I love to play. I had a blast from 1-90, and even at 90 with bad gear, I am the maintank for our guild and I find the spec fun to play and it feels like I have control over how I want to play. As prot I feel very bound to just spam buttons in a rotation.

    The other monk specs are really fun too and I also like to play on my warlock, demo or affli the complexity of those specs!

    So maybe you can give me some advice, should I stay prot and try to get some more gear (haste makes the spec more fun or?), or should I aim for gearing as retri or try holy?

  2. #2
    If you aren't enjoying it then it isn't for you. I don't know what you want people to tell you when you've told us you aren't having fun with it.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    If you aren't enjoying it then it isn't for you. I don't know what you want people to tell you when you've told us you aren't having fun with it.
    Guess you're right, though I am wondering if the play style changes a lot when you get tons of haste.

  4. #4
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    The best thing about Prot is you can completely gear for Optimal Ret DPS, and passively get the best possible Prot gear as well. So might as well gear for ret as IMO its a blast. It is also my Main. Basically if a piece of gear is Haste/ Mastery its best for both specs.

    Play-style does change a lot with a lot of haste, same for Ret. basically everything gets faster and more fluid, as well as DPS numbers going up.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Guess you're right, though I am wondering if the play style changes a lot when you get tons of haste.
    Yes, indeed it does. You just spam even more.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    The best thing about Prot is you can completely gear for Optimal Ret DPS, and passively get the best possible Prot gear as well. So might as well gear for ret as IMO its a blast. It is also my Main. Basically if a piece of gear is Haste/ Mastery its best for both specs.

    Play-style does change a lot with a lot of haste, same for Ret. basically everything gets faster and more fluid, as well as DPS numbers going up.

    Wait wait wait, so I can pick retri items, items without parry dodge and that kind of stuff and do well as prot? Damn, then I maybe can play as retri for a while till I got some gear up and then try prot.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Colmadero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Wait wait wait, so I can pick retri items, items without parry dodge and that kind of stuff and do well as prot? Damn, then I maybe can play as retri for a while till I got some gear up and then try prot.
    As odd as it may sound, Haste is our best stat at the moment as our main concern with our spec is to keep HotR (our flat physical dmg reducer) up as long as possible and since haste affects most of our HoPo generators so.... HASTE
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    As odd as it may sound, Haste is our best stat at the moment as our main concern with our spec is to keep HotR (our flat physical dmg reducer) up as long as possible and since haste affects most of our HoPo generators so.... HASTE
    To expand: You want to be as smooth as possible (as I'm sure you understand, being BrM main), and the way to achieve that as Prot is to get as close to 100% effective uptime as possible (block every hit, could be 80% uptime in the real world) this is done by increasing your HoP generation, which haste does an insane amount for through Sanctity of Battle. This also means that your Sacred Shield gains a metric shit ton of extra procs, and you proc Seal of Insight a lot more, resulting in Prot Paladins being able to near enough solo heal themselves through certain over-geared content (as I'm sure you've witnessed on your Monk at times).

    TL;DR: You've not played with Haste, once you've got a full set of that sorted you should enjoy it much more as its almost identical to the Ret rotation

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Wait wait wait, so I can pick retri items, items without parry dodge and that kind of stuff and do well as prot? Damn, then I maybe can play as retri for a while till I got some gear up and then try prot.
    Not sure if srs.

    It's brought up every single day multiple times, and there are ~4 threads on the front page of this forum right now about Haste and Prot.

    Protpal uses haste to make its entire rotation, AM system, self healing/absorbs and GCD faster. More haste means more speed for everything, and more scaling (compounded by vengeance).

    That said, if you don't like the playstyle (as it is quite different than a BrM, though not THAT different in resource generation), making the style FASTER may not make it BETTER.

    We never want parry or dodge. We want Haste like a BrM wants Crit.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Wait wait wait, so I can pick retri items, items without parry dodge and that kind of stuff and do well as prot? Damn, then I maybe can play as retri for a while till I got some gear up and then try prot.
    The prot stat priority is hit > expertise > haste > mastery > strength > parry > dodge with the purpose of smoothing your damage intake.

    Very similar to the ret stat priority, except prot paladins generally go for double the expertise.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not sure if srs.

    It's brought up every single day multiple times, and there are ~4 threads on the front page of this forum right now about Haste and Prot.

    Protpal uses haste to make its entire rotation, AM system, self healing/absorbs and GCD faster. More haste means more speed for everything, and more scaling (compounded by vengeance).

    That said, if you don't like the playstyle (as it is quite different than a BrM, though not THAT different in resource generation), making the style FASTER may not make it BETTER.

    We never want parry or dodge. We want Haste like a BrM wants Crit.
    Yeah I knew they should have haste, but didn't know you could completely ditch the "tank pieces".

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Ihnasir's Avatar
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    I've noticed it changed on my Prot Pally when I went straight Haste over Stamina, even at my low gear level (I just do world bosses and solo stuff on him, and barely that).

    Haste makes the spec much more bearable, but I'm upset that my damage is disgustingly low versus my similarly geared Warrior and DK, or versus other Prot Paladins that top both damage and healing meters.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Yeah I knew they should have haste, but didn't know you could completely ditch the "tank pieces".
    It goes as far as Crit > dodge/parry, so yes, you can fully ditch any and all tank pieces.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Mehman's Avatar
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    I didn't enjoy prot at <480 ilvl, as misses + low haste meant that I wasn't making a whole lot of Holy power. 480-500 was a little weird for me as it was mostly with pieces that would've otherwise been DE'd in my raid (I had a lot of crit + tank stats on my gear). Now though, I'm finding it quite fun (Mostly have items with haste now), but it DOES require a lot of haste for me to find it fun. But yeah, play what you want, try out prot at later gear levels if you want.


  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    I think monk playstyle is much more enjoyable too, play what you like.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Yeah I knew they should have haste, but didn't know you could completely ditch the "tank pieces".
    Ditch away, you'll be a better tank for it.

    7.5hit > 7.5exp > Haste > 15exp > mastery >>> crit > parry > dodge

    The last 3 are all about equal in terms of usefulness, with crit slightly ahead in 5.0-5.3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    It goes as far as Crit > dodge/parry, so yes, you can fully ditch any and all tank pieces.
    However, in 5.4, D/P will begin to come into it's own. It will still not be GOOD, but here's why:
    1) In SoO ilvl, we will easily be able to reach hit (7.5), exp (15) AND haste (21250 rating) caps simultaneously.
    2) This leaves only Crit, Mastery, Dodge, and Parry
    3) Mastery, while a great stat, doesn't do jack for throughput. AND, we have enough mastery innately to survive anything, assuming you use ShotR intelligently.
    4) Crit is great for throughput, but has no defensive value whatsoever, barring WOG casts, which you shouldn't be doing much/at all. SOI/SS cannot crit.
    5) With the GC changes in 5.4 to ONLY proc off of avoidance, D+P now provide a non-zero throughput increase AS WELL AS a moderate amount of TDR.

    Sure, we don't really care about TDR, BUT in 5.4, post hit, exp AND haste capped, avoidance will be an acceptable throuhgput stat that also boosts our survival. This cannot be said about crit (throughput, no survival) nor mastery (survival, no throughput). Keep in mind, the bold part is the important qualifier, as sub 21250, Haste is still king.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombino View Post
    I think monk playstyle is much more enjoyable too, play what you like.
    I love my BrM too. Not MORE than my paladin, but equal to it (which is a lot).

    I ditched my long-time prime alt (BDK) for my BrM and love it. Only downside is the lack of "oh-shit" buttons compared to DK/Pala (IMO).
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombino View Post
    I think monk playstyle is much more enjoyable too, play what you like.
    I gotta say I like both brm and prot paladin. I like the mobility on the monk, but I gotta say stagger is extremely boring compared to SotR. Having 100% uptime on your AM for almost 0 effort just feels wrong.

    I also enjoy the protection paladin rotation much more than the brm one as it is more complex and more dynamic. The vast amount of cooldowns is also fun on paladins, I do enjoy expel harm on monk though.

    If I got to put what I like about both, I would say.

    Monk: Mobility, Expel Harm, Transcendance, Reliable AE, the gearing method
    Paladin: The cooldowns, the harder and more rewarding rotation, being pink on recount, the active mitigation

    Monk and paladin are my two favorite tank classes for sure.
    Pretty much as Nairobi said, I love my monk, just not as much as my paladin.
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  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Once you get more haste, you'll love it. Doing as much damage as DPS and being one of the best tanks at the same time is awesome.

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