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  1. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...egacy-content/



    So congratulation to all Blizzard fanboys on this thread who used to believe Blizzard lies that the item squish won't affect the soloing.
    Of course they were lying.

    This is Blizzard's way of saying, "stuff happens we make changes, not all changes are for good, and things that you used to solo in the past you might not be able to now, but we hope one day that you might. We lied when we said that previously promised content would be just as easy to solo in the next expansion as it is now."

    in other words... our worst nightmare has just come real, those players that enjoyed farming that old content for those specific items or fun bosses might not be able to anymore.

    So sad I must post
    I told you.
    Holy necro batman!

    Want a Facebook page for healers only? Look here: https://www.facebook.com/WoWHealers

  2. #1902
    Necro because beta is ending and we finally we have the final answer to the main question in this thread.

    Dear soloers, enjoy the nerfs.

  3. #1903
    A necro just to prove a point that he is wrong on too. Watcher states that the squish will not affect the ability to solo legacy content but that class changes that happen with every xpac might. So I can only say you may have told us so but you were wrong.

    "I do want to clarify, however, that our changes are only intended to offset the direct effects of the "squish" and our goal has been to make sure that linearizing the item curve between item levels ~60 and 463 doesn't impact the ability to solo legacy content. That is not the same as saying that we guarantee nothing will change, period - we've made a number of adjustments to tank mitigation, healing, defensive cooldowns, and so forth. That's nothing new for an expansion, and in some cases, yes, that will make old content more challenging than it was in 5.4.8, especially for tank specs that could previously use Vengeance to great effect. But that has nothing to do with the item squish."

  4. #1904
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Necro because beta is ending and we finally we have the final answer to the main question in this thread.

    Dear soloers, enjoy the nerfs.
    I also said that there was no way Blizzard was going to give a crap about solo raiding - the math and the numerous other changes wouldn't support it. They painted themselves into a corner. So they gave up.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/02/09/11...r-post-squish/

  5. #1905
    Important is that without the item squish , the exponential increase of the gear would have compensate the class nerfs/changes , making them a non issue.

    And important is the final result : 1. today at lvl 90 you can solo boss A.
    2. on PTR you cannot.

    Technical Game Designer Chadd Nervig, aka Celestalon on Twitter, has answered a tweeter's question about item squishing with the following tidbit:


    .@ToppTheDwarf The item squish *will not* make soloing old raids harder. We promise, and 110% guarantee it.
    - Celestalon (@Celestalon) February 9, 2014


    120% LIE.
    Last edited by vandam; 2014-09-29 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by Danzel View Post
    Holy necro batman!
    He is right, though.

    When they said that they are doing the squish, many people, myself included, saw the curves and what they meant for soloing non-max-level stuff and immediately started asking for details like how exactly they are going to compensate for reduced power wrt old raids, etc. We knew back then that there will be issues and that some stuff will become harder to solo than it is now and some stuff might even become impossible or practically impossible to solo.

    Blizzard devs kept playing baby teachers and kept saying that no, everything that is soloable now will remain soloable in the future, etc. For a long time they weren't saying what exactly they are going to do, although we had good guesses - which turned out correct in the end, by the way.

    Now we see that there are problems. Surprise, we said there will be problems a long time ago. Moreover, I will say right now that some of these problems will remain unfixed for a long time just because many of them are one-off things and Blizzard aren't diligent enough to even fix them as fast as they are reported yet alone find them in the first place. And Blizzard are now saying that things might, indeed, change, because bla bla, and that they guaranteed nothing and that they will only fix things to the extent they are happy with, which might not - and will not - coincide with "as soloable as before", which was what Bashiok and others like him were saying.

    So, yes, TOLD YOU is correct.

  7. #1907
    That would be because at the minute legacy content is bugged and the buff is not applying properly while fighting bosses.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...s-with-squish/

  8. #1908
    Quote Originally Posted by Candiman View Post
    A necro just to prove a point that he is wrong on too. Watcher states that the squish will not affect the ability to solo legacy content but that class changes that happen with every xpac might. So I can only say you may have told us so but you were wrong.

    "I do want to clarify, however, that our changes are only intended to offset the direct effects of the "squish" and our goal has been to make sure that linearizing the item curve between item levels ~60 and 463 doesn't impact the ability to solo legacy content. That is not the same as saying that we guarantee nothing will change, period - we've made a number of adjustments to tank mitigation, healing, defensive cooldowns, and so forth. That's nothing new for an expansion, and in some cases, yes, that will make old content more challenging than it was in 5.4.8, especially for tank specs that could previously use Vengeance to great effect. But that has nothing to do with the item squish."
    Translating: changes MIGHT TOTALLY affect soloing, and they were never guaranteeing otherwise / players took it wrong / bla bla bla.

    Sure, they are doing more than the squish. Sure, things other than the squish might affect soloing, too. But when something which is right now soloable will become unsoloable (or soloable at a *much* lower speed, for example), and Watcher will say that it's not because of the squish, will it change much? And if it really won't be because of the squish, but rather because of some spell that they cut or some cooldown time that they increased, will it really be any consolation? As in, if you cut some spell that made it possible for spec X to solo stuff, and thus make some popular content that was soloable before unsoloable, shouldn't you do something to compensate???
    Last edited by rda; 2014-09-29 at 12:35 PM.

  9. #1909
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Translating: changes MIGHT TOTALLY affect soloing, and they were never guaranteeing otherwise / players took it wrong / bla bla bla.
    Translation: I don't agree with you but can't disprove what you say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Class changes at the start of every xpac have had an effect on soloing old content. This one is no different.

  10. #1910
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Not only did you necro a thread, you did it to be wrong.

    The changes that can affect soloing are unrelated to the squish. They're class changes that would have happened regardless of the existance of a squish. Vengeance removal, healing changes, changes to defensive cooldowns, those are all things that would have affected the difficulty of soloing old content regardless. You're still wrong, and you're heavily misinterpreting your quoted post. This happens every expansion while we're still unable to level to the new cap.

    Besides, we won't be spending a lot of time at level 90 after 6.0 releases. Even if we did get negatively impacted by the squish, it would be relevant for less than a month (Edit: depending on when the patch releases, that is. It's likely to be around a month now that I think about it), at which point we're allowed to level to 100 and overpower things even more.

    If words won't convince you and you still think these are the arguments of us "fanboys", then check it yourself when the patch goes live, or try it right now on the PTR.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2014-09-29 at 12:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Important is that without the item squish , the exponential increase of the gear would have compensate the class nerfs/changes , making them a non issue.

    And important is the final result : 1. today at lvl 90 you can solo boss A.
    2. on PTR you cannot.



    120% LIE.
    "Old Raid Solo Bugs
    Tried again in this new 18927 build, still experiencing same thing. Reduced damage against bosses.
    Just to confirm, this is a bug - we're working on a fix."

  12. #1912
    Quote Originally Posted by Candiman View Post
    Translation: I don't agree with you but can't disprove what you say.
    You made a statement "he is wrong", then provided a quote that showed exactly that the OP was right.

  13. #1913
    Class changes at the start of every xpac have had an effect on soloing old content.
    The changes that can affect soloing are unrelated to the squish. They're class changes that would have happened regardless of the existance of a squish. Vengeance removal, healing changes, changes to defensive cooldowns, those are all things that would have affected the difficulty of soloing old content regardless. You're still wrong, and you're heavily misinterpreting your quoted post. This happens every expansion while we're still unable to level to the new cap.
    But this was soon a non issue because the exponential scale of the gear would have compensated the class changes.
    Thanks to the item squish , the exponential scaling is gone.
    So the item squish did it in the end.
    Last edited by vandam; 2014-09-29 at 12:41 PM.

  14. #1914
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Besides, we won't be spending a lot of time at level 90 after 6.0 releases. Even if we did get negatively impacted by the squish, it would be relevant for less than a month, at which point we're allowed to level to 100 and overpower things even more.
    Oh yeah, it's excuse time now, I love it.

  15. #1915
    I can live with not soloing for a few weeks until 100, but if its stuffed up at 100 its a different matter. Is this statement they made focused on 90s? As i thought at 100 we got a buff which made most old content just completly nukeable anyway.

  16. #1916
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    But this was soon a non issue because the exponential scale of the gear would have compensated the class changes.
    Thanks to the item squish , the exponential scaling is gone.
    So the item squish did it in the end.
    The exponential scaling isn't gone, but the squish is in the end the main thing responsible for the mess, because it was the squish that created a myriad of corner cases which have to be fixed on a case-by-case basis (and some of which won't be fixed for this reason).

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...egacy-content/



    So congratulation to all Blizzard fanboys on this thread who used to believe Blizzard lies that the item squish won't affect the soloing.
    Of course they were lying. Yeah , the changes to class mecanics+the item squish TOGETHER will make bosses curently soloable harder or impossible.

    This is Blizzard's way of saying, "stuff happens we make changes, not all changes are for good, and things that you used to solo in the past you might not be able to now, but we hope one day that you might. We lied when we said that previously promised content would be just as easy to solo in the next expansion as it is now."

    in other words... our worst nightmare has just come real, those players that enjoyed farming that old content for those specific items or fun bosses might not be able to anymore.

    So sad I must post
    I told you.
    Why exactly should blizzard care about old content being soloble? Theres alot of work to do with a new expasion and rebalancing old content can wait. It is not essentiel in any essence.

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by data View Post
    "Old Raid Solo Bugs
    Tried again in this new 18927 build, still experiencing same thing. Reduced damage against bosses.
    Just to confirm, this is a bug - we're working on a fix."
    This is one of the bugs that we are lucky to have them say is a bug and fixing. There are bound to be other, similar cases, which they haven't acknowledged to be bugs yet and perhaps aren't fixing. Most of them should materialize in the first three months of WoD, keep your ears open and you will hear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    Why exactly should blizzard care about old content being soloble? Theres alot of work to do with a new expasion and rebalancing old content can wait. It is not essentiel in any essence.
    In your opinion.

  19. #1919
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Oh yeah, it's excuse time now, I love it.
    Yeah, it's an excuse. Ignoring that this was a "what if" scenario, because we're not actually getting affected by the squish. But no, it's totally an excuse. I mean, come on, my post didn't even have anything else at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    But this was soon a non issue because the exponential scale of the gear would have compensated the class changes.
    Thanks to the item squish , the exponential scaling is gone.
    So the item squish did it in the end.
    No. While at level 90, you would be wearing the exact same gear with the exact same stats if there was no squish. You would only be affected (negatively or positively) by the class and system changes coming with the patch. At 100, gear power would increase and you would crush everything without a thought.

    Thing is, this will still happen due to the scaling "buff" we get when fighting things from old content. At level 90, any impact on our ability to solo will be due to class changes. Both positive and negative. At 100, we will overpower things even harder because we're still growing in power.

    You're making up an issue that doesn't exist. Right now in the beta, wearing PvP gear on a pre-made level 100 character, you can demolish each Dragon Soul boss in under 10 seconds. At 90, you have the same difficulty as on live. Are you really going to tell me this is a negative impact from the squish?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    This is one of the bugs that we are lucky to have them say is a bug and fixing. There are bound to be other, similar cases, which they haven't acknowledged to be bugs yet and perhaps aren't fixing. Most of them should materialize in the first three months of WoD, keep your ears open and you will hear.
    I fail to see the problem. If bugs appear and are fixed, what exactly is the problem?

    The existance of bugs doesn't mean they lied about the squish not affecting soloing. That's why they're called bugs and not working as intended design, or even design flaws. They're bugs because they're accidental and unwanted.
    Last edited by Adramalech; 2014-09-29 at 12:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  20. #1920
    Why exactly should blizzard care about old content being soloble? Theres alot of work to do with a new expasion and rebalancing old content can wait. It is not essentiel in any essence.
    1. Because a big part of their casual playerbase did it/do it.
    2. Because it added value to the game by being a one more thing you can do .
    3. Because was a challenge for impressive world first soloing for some guys a, so succesfull that lead to implementation of Brawling League.

    and , last but not least because they promised :
    4. The item squish *will not* make soloing old raids harder. We promise, and 110% guarantee it.
    - Celestalon (@Celestalon) February 9, 2014



    What is the definition of 110% according to Blizzard ?

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