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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    You would define him as a hero? Simply because he leaked all the video of the bombing? What about the rest of the quarter of a million classified documents? What if you were an agent in say the CIA and he just blew your cover because you were in those documents listed? Would he still be classified as a hero to you? He put people in harms way. Now if he would have just leaked the video and all the information pertaining to that, that might be a 'hero' move and classified as a whistleblower instead of a traiter.
    The people put in harms way (if any) were doing evil.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    They put themselves in that situation voluntarily.

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    Did you? Thanks for PRISM and the NSA.

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    America needs to finally take what it dished out so generously to other countries for decades. Maybe then, they're be less desire to constantly intervene.

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    Change within the system is futile, as has already been explained.
    The programs you are complaining about are the work of the current government, not the founding fathers. The means to remove them exist, should the people decide to do so.

    Again, you can only see change coming with your death? You are so narrow minded you cannot see other means? And I will firmly state change within the system is impossible only so long as people believe it is. You are falling for the very lies you are complaining others are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    The people put in harms way (if any) were doing evil.
    And I'm sure you can detail me every manner he compromised security? Every person working for the US Government is doing evil?
    You paint with very broad strokes.....

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    They put themselves in that situation voluntarily.

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    Did you? Thanks for PRISM and the NSA.

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    America needs to finally take what it dished out so generously to other countries for decades. Maybe then, they're be less desire to constantly intervene.

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    Change within the system is futile, as has already been explained.
    Wow, so you are actually ASKING for other countries to attack us? You would willingly let countries like Nazi-Germany in WW2 run rampant over Europe because we shouldn't intervene? What stops them from attacking us then? Or say letting Japan in WW2 take over the Pacific ocean?

  4. #164
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Wow, so you are actually ASKING for other countries to attack us? You would willingly let countries like Nazi-Germany in WW2 run rampant over Europe because we shouldn't intervene? What stops them from attacking us then? Or say letting Japan in WW2 take over the Pacific ocean?
    Don't bother arguing with him. It's not a serious discussion. He cares more about fighting then the actual content.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorim View Post
    I thought that the Geneva conventions & Nuremberg principles compelled Soldiers to not follow orders which were a violation of the laws of War, and to expose war crimes?

    The 'collateral murders' documents were clearly war crimes, including allowing medical evacuation of casualties and desecrating the dead, did he just get found guilty due to the amount of Documents released even though they clearly did show evidence of war crimes?
    You can't shoot a marked, unarmed medical vehicle. They should have slapped a red cross on the side. Instead they used the same type of unmarked van that had been used to transport insurgents and weapons. As for the reporters, sure its sad, but it's also predictable when you embed yourself with armed militants in a war zone.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    The people put in harms way (if any) were doing evil.
    Wow you are so ridiculous. Please just leave the country, you aren't American at all if you wish anyone harm for any reason. Even if I disagree with anything anyone has done, doesn't mean something bad should happen to them. Its almost like you are saying all of our troops should be killed simply because one pilot did something.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    And I'm sure you can detail me every manner he compromised security? Every person working for the US Government is doing evil?
    You paint with very broad strokes.....
    The state by it's very nature is evil and unethical because it survives through brute force and "legalized" theft.

    So what do you suggest other than casting futile votes for third party candidates (who almost NEVER win) and protesting (10 years of ineffectual Middle East war protests with no change)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Wow, so you are actually ASKING for other countries to attack us? You would willingly let countries like Nazi-Germany in WW2 run rampant over Europe because we shouldn't intervene? What stops them from attacking us then? Or say letting Japan in WW2 take over the Pacific ocean?
    I'm a non interventionist but for all the unnecessary killing, droning, bombing, destruction and irradiation of entire regions this country is guilty of, it deserves a bit in return. Do you even realize how much death and destruction america has spread around the world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Wow you are so ridiculous. Please just leave the country, you aren't American at all if you wish anyone harm for any reason. Even if I disagree with anything anyone has done, doesn't mean something bad should happen to them. Its almost like you are saying all of our troops should be killed simply because one pilot did something.
    For example, a soldier who is a medic doesn't get an out by saying "but I'm just a medic, I didn't hurt anyone!". He indirectly hurt people by enabling the people who fight.

    The military is a machine. All parts must be working in order for it to be effective.

  8. #168
    For some reason I thought this was about Eastenders...........

  9. #169
    Stood in the Fire Mcaffee's Avatar
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    Okay so this doesn't make any sense to me.
    He can be convicted to a max of 136 years right so say he is what the hell is the point of this daft number?
    I mean why not just sentence him to life without the possibility of parole, giving a guy 136 years is well sorry to say stupid, it's not like he is the bloody wolverine or the highlander.

  10. #170
    Scarab Lord Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post


    For example, a soldier who is a medic doesn't get an out by saying "but I'm just a medic, I didn't hurt anyone!". He indirectly hurt people by enabling the people who fight.

    The military is a machine. All parts must be working in order for it to be effective.
    That is batshit insane.

    I'm sorry.

    But that is batshit insane.

    I truly want you to understand Arcanist, you're in the irrelevant minority. I want you to know, that big government you think is crushing you? Well it's not, but it is completely disregarding your insane, irrational position on issues.

    Enjoy irrelevancy.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcaffee View Post
    Okay so this doesn't make any sense to me.
    He can be convicted to a max of 136 years right so say he is what the hell is the point of this daft number?
    I mean why not just sentence him to life without the possibility of parole, giving a guy 136 years is well sorry to say stupid, it's not like he is the bloody wolverine or the highlander.
    Because the American justice system is extremely brutal and barbaric. We throw people into cages for non violent offenses or give them felonies, thereby ruining the rest of their lives while at the same time keeping them within the system and making money off of them.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    The state by it's very nature is evil and unethical because it survives through brute force and "legalized" theft.

    So what do you suggest other than casting futile votes for third party candidates (who almost NEVER win) and protesting (10 years of ineffectual Middle East war protests with no change)?

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    I'm a non interventionist but for all the unnecessary killing, droning, bombing, destruction and irradiation of entire regions this country is guilty of, it deserves a bit in return. Do you even realize how much death and destruction america has spread around the world?

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    For example, a soldier who is a medic doesn't get an out by saying "but I'm just a medic, I didn't hurt anyone!". He indirectly hurt people by enabling the people who fight.

    The military is a machine. All parts must be working in order for it to be effective.
    By your view, the only solution is no government, Mob rule, because we all know mobs never act unethically...
    And you are still confussing the failure of the people to act with their actual ability to do so should the decide to do so.

  13. #173
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    That is batshit insane.

    I'm sorry.

    But that is batshit insane.

    I truly want you to understand Arcanist, you're in the irrelevant minority. I want you to know, that big government you think is crushing you? Well it's not, but it is completely disregarding your insane, irrational position on issues.

    Enjoy irrelevancy.
    He enjoys fighting on the internet Skro, your words will be wasted.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    That is batshit insane.

    I'm sorry.

    But that is batshit insane.

    I truly want you to understand Arcanist, you're in the irrelevant minority. I want you to know, that big government you think is crushing you? Well it's not, but it is completely disregarding your insane, irrational position on issues.

    Enjoy irrelevancy.
    Why is it insane? A soldier serves the state-corporate and furthers its goals. If what the state-corporate is doing is questionable and suspect then the soldier as a voluntary agent of the state-corporate bears responsibility.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcaffee View Post
    Okay so this doesn't make any sense to me.
    He can be convicted to a max of 136 years right so say he is what the hell is the point of this daft number?
    I mean why not just sentence him to life without the possibility of parole, giving a guy 136 years is well sorry to say stupid, it's not like he is the bloody wolverine or the highlander.
    Its because he's been convicted of 19 offenses and each offense carries between 2 and 10 years depending on the crime (or if he plead guilty to one of them already). The sum of it is 136 years.

    It's like how that guy in Ohio got life plus 1000 years. On the charge that carried life as a penalty, he was jailed for life. On all additional counts - for him it was like 700 or something - he plead guilty and was given the appropriate penalty for each of those.

    Now you may think, logically, well if he's serving life, whats the point? It's judicial in nature. Since he is charged with a host of crimes, even if he is found guilty of the one that carries life, he must be found either guilty or not guilty of all the others... they can't procedurally leave them hanging. The sum of it came to 1000 years.

    In manning's case, he escaped Aiding the Enemy, which came with a life sentence (or execution, which he was never in danger for). But the sum of the penalties for his lists of transgressions he was charged with adds up to 136.

    More realistically, he'll probably get 50-80 years, which means he'll die in Prison, which is good, or get out in the late 21st century, which is also good.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Why is it insane? A soldier serves the state-corporate and furthers its goals. If what the state-corporate is doing is questionable and suspect then the soldier as a voluntary agent of the state-corporate bears responsibility.
    a soldier may sign up knowing he will one day be deployed, but he doesn't get to chose where, nor what missions to partake in. ou want to blame someone? Blame the policy makers and those that support the policy makers.

    Seriously, by saying that shit about the medic being just as responsible, by that illogical leap you also deserve punishment because you pay taxes that pay their salaries!

    my one and only post on this because its not worth getting heated over an opinion that out there.
    Last edited by Crissi; 2013-07-30 at 10:45 PM.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    He enjoys fighting on the internet Skro, your words will be wasted.
    Oh trust me. I'm not going to engage that man. He's crazier than bag of cats.

    Anyone who seriously claims medics are a legitimate target because they enable the war machine does not deserve to be taken seriously. It's seriously beyond birther level crazy. I honestly don't think I've heard something as completely nuts all year, and boy have I heard some crazy as shit things.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    a soldier may sign up knowing he will one day be deployed, but he doesn't get to chose where, nor what missions to partake in. ou want to blame someone? Blame the policy makers and those that support the policy makers.

    Seriously, by saying that shit about the medic being just as responsible, by that illogical leap you also deserve punishment because you pay taxes that pay their salaries!

    my one and only post on this because its not worth getting heated over an opinion that out there.
    I blame them both. Looking at what this country has done around the world for the past 4-5 decades would dissuade me from EVER joining in any sort of capacity. Someone who joins fully knows what they're getting into.

    I don't pay taxes voluntarily. This money is extracted under pain of caging or death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Oh trust me. I'm not going to engage that man. He's crazier than bag of cats.

    Anyone who seriously claims medics are a legitimate target because they enable the war machine does not deserve to be taken seriously. It's seriously beyond birther level crazy. I honestly don't think I've heard something as completely nuts all year, and boy have I heard some crazy as shit things.
    Explain what's wrong with the statement. Or is it the case that you're offended and simply dislike what I said?

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    I blame them both. Looking at what this country has done around the world for the past 4-5 decades would dissuade me from EVER joining in any sort of capacity. Someone who joins fully knows what they're getting into.

    I don't pay taxes voluntarily. This money is extracted under pain of caging or death.

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    Explain what's wrong with the statement. Or is it the case that you're offended and simply dislike what I said?
    Again, proof you are heap big smoke, no fire. You have "great" convictions, and do not act on them...

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post

    Explain what's wrong with the statement. Or is it the case that you're offended and simply dislike what I said?
    Um.. No. Get lost. I'm not going to waste my life engaging with someone who thinks Medics are legitimate targets. Like seriously. It's self evident why that is madness to all but people with diseased minds. It's as legitimate opinion as like saying we should bring back Jim Crow because black / white integration has been a messy failure. It's batshit nuts and people who express mad opinions like that should have vegetables thrown at them, not engaged as a peer.

    Let me put it another way, what you're writing is compelling people to shake their heads in disbelief at the utter insanity of it. They aren't inspired to engage with you. You're one of those people that makes mentally balanced people say "oh god... the internet is at it again....."

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