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  1. #161
    Yes, for me wow is still immersive.
    but then again i spend a lot of time playing by myself, rarely doing BG's / Dungeons
    i think the best moment in pandaria was when we opened the gates to the vale or defended Stoneplow.
    another series of strong moments for me personaly was the Li Li & Chen quests, trying to track down the other Stormstouts.

    it all depends on your prespective if you ask me. Vanilla wasnt "more" immersive, it was just new... thats just my 2 cents anyway.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    Since a lot of what I feel have allready been said I'll stick to this one thing. When the game almost forces you to get to max level in an instant instead of taking your time - then the immersion will be gone.
    I get what you're saying but think about this: everyone's main is at max level and at max level in vanilla/TBC/WOTLK I have had much MUCH more immersion. Leveling in itself is important the first time around. After that the content itself (the end content be that raids/dungeons/professions/remaining quests/etc) needs to pick up from there and keep it going. It doesn't anymore. And I do not believe this is because I am older now. I might be 34, but some of my guildies are turning 55, which they say aswell that the immersion has been fleeting...

    And playing the same game for years on end could be an issue, but then again - if I play WCIII again I am also immersed...still after so many years. If I play Final Fantasy 7 again, I feel once again immersed. Maybe not as much as when I played it for the first time, but still immersed.

  3. #163
    And playing the same game for years on end could be an issue, but then again - if I play WCIII again I am also immersed...still after so many years. If I play Final Fantasy 7 again, I feel once again immersed. Maybe not as much as when I played it for the first time, but still immersed.
    So you are saying it does depend on the game itself? This leads me to believe further that Blizzard could maybe implement one or two features, or take a couple out, that will improve the immersion factor. Really though I think it just comes down to the player.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by TVLodge View Post
    So you are saying it does depend on the game itself? This leads me to believe further that Blizzard could maybe implement one or two features, or take a couple out, that will improve the immersion factor. Really though I think it just comes down to the player.
    Obviously it comes down to the player. But a lot of people might like the same thing. Apparantly a lot of people bought Vanilla TBC WOTLK, then people stopped buying/subbing to the game. Apparantly there had been changes that a lot of people did not like (amongst hundreds of other reasons to stop people from playing).

    I do not think Blizzard can take a feature out of the game (unless its Have Group Will Travel kind of things) once it is implemented. LFR will not go away I am pretty sure of that. Ergo we get a convenience at the cost of a lot of things. If they continue with this trend of putting more convenience in at the expense of "possible" immersion and accountability and uniqueness of each players character - the more of a shell of a game it will become.

  5. #165
    WoW can be immersive but the problem is most people have been playing it for a long time they no longer care about being immersed. They just want to blow through the content as fast as possible.

    Now I've tried every mmo under the sun over the past few years and I always say the most immersive MMO for me is LOTRO. It has it's flaws but it can immerse you like no other imho.
    "Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"
    "That is the only time a man can be brave."
    -Lord Eddard Stark

  6. #166
    Nope, stopped in cataclysm. Handholding cuts you out.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuca247 View Post
    WoW can be immersive but the problem is most people have been playing it for a long time they no longer care about being immersed. They just want to blow through the content as fast as possible.

    Now I've tried every mmo under the sun over the past few years and I always say the most immersive MMO for me is LOTRO. It has it's flaws but it can immerse you like no other imho.
    Completely agree with all of this. Even the LotRO part. The difference is that the games have different goals. WoW is ultimately about gameplay and endgame progression. LotRO is less focused on gameplay and more focused on the intangibles, like RP and Lore.

    Honestly that's one of the reasons WoW has been so successful because of their focus on gameplay.
    BAD WOLF

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by yuca247 View Post
    WoW can be immersive but the problem is most people have been playing it for a long time they no longer care about being immersed. They just want to blow through the content as fast as possible.

    Now I've tried every mmo under the sun over the past few years and I always say the most immersive MMO for me is LOTRO. It has it's flaws but it can immerse you like no other imho.
    Hmmm I tried LOTRO but I couldn't get out of the ugliness of the game itself the wonky controls and the kiddystory at the beginning. I cannot say I played it thoroughly... I stopped after the beginning. I thought it was the stupidest thing ever.

    Did you play at the start of Vanilla? Just asking. I mean regardless of you did or not, it is your opinion and no one can tward you on that

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Hmmm I tried LOTRO but I couldn't get out of the ugliness of the game itself the wonky controls and the kiddystory at the beginning. I cannot say I played it thoroughly... I stopped after the beginning. I thought it was the stupidest thing ever.

    Did you play at the start of Vanilla? Just asking. I mean regardless of you did or not, it is your opinion and no one can tward you on that
    LIke I said it does have it's flaws specially the wonky controls and it does get better as you go along. LOTRO has always been about the journey.

    Now back to being on topic, WoW can still immerse a player but I think it depends a lot on the player. I feel like the more invested you are in the lore (books, short stories, etc) the easier it is to immerse yourself in the game.

    To add to that, there are little things I like to do that help keep me immersed. Silly things really but I found it helps.

    For example, I could never be a tauren paladin or an orc mage. Those classes just don't fit those races lore wise. My toons I play the most are human paladin, human dk, orc warrior, and orc shaman. For anyone that has read wow's story from the beginning it's obvious why those are some of the most prominent characters. I go as far as choosing a mount that fits the race and class. For my pally I like to use the argent tournament pally charger. For my orc shaman I use the spectral wolf from the tol barad rep. I even like to match the titles to something that fits and I could never wear a darkspear trolls tabard on my orc warrior even if it happens to go with my mog.

    As I said before some players couldn't give a damn about all these little things. They'll tank a raid boss with a gnome female character wearing a bikini.
    Last edited by yuca247; 2013-08-01 at 01:58 PM.
    "Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"
    "That is the only time a man can be brave."
    -Lord Eddard Stark

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by yuca247 View Post
    LIke I said it does have it's flaws specially the wonky controls and it does get better as you go along. LOTRO has always been about the journey.

    Now back to being on topic, WoW can still immerse a player but I think it depends a lot on the player. I feel like the more invested you are in the lore (books, short stories, etc) the easier it is to immerse yourself in the game.
    Totally agree. I guess I was more immersed coming from WCI WCII and WCIII. I didn't read any books or other sources of WoW lore until Cataclysm.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Right so for you the game has gotten MORE immersion because those convenience features are here. Or you never felt any immersion anyway.

    Fact remains that YOU can not tell ANYONE here that the reasons they feel that way, aren't correct. Immersiveness = feeling. Feeling differs per person.
    As a person I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
    Sorry, I should have said that the vast majority of posts in this thread are backwards for me. I thought that was implied by the fact that it followed my first sentence.

    Immersion is subjective, of course. Some people would need interactive toilet breaks to feel immersion. Maybe they could make it a scenario - "Fire in the hole!"

  12. #172
    Also, they got rid of most Chests out in the world, which added to immersion. The world just feels stale, it doesn't feel interactive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Basically this guy and the developers share a similar mind set. It's a wholly ignorant one that confuses inconvenience for immersion. In mists they got rid of lots of "risk free gameplay" but I didn't feel any more or less immersed. The island of thunder wasn't more immersive cause I couldn't fly, it was just a pain in the asshole to get around. That's it. Go ahead take away flying and lfd and every convenience you can think of. Take away the "risk free gameplay" you won't get the immersion back. All you get is pissed off customers.

    I'll put this in bold because it needs to be understood. IMMERSION IS DEAD Youtube, google, wowhead, quest helper, thottbott, mmo-champion, elitistjerks KILLED IMMERSION not convenience or flying mounts or "risk free gameplay" LOL. Nothing the developers did killed immersion. The world wide web did. The immersion in the game was a huge trick that was broken when you saw the man behind the curtain.

    So unless the developers can somehow manage to claw back the world wide web NOTHING they can do will bring back immersion. That includes the removal of all the convenience features ("risk free gameplay") in the universe. Go ahead make the game more obtuse, please by all means. You think it will fool people? It isn't fooling people in mists...
    That stuff has mostly always been there. It IS the things people mistook for inconveniences.
    Last edited by Brandon138; 2013-08-01 at 03:14 PM.

  13. #173
    Now back to being on topic, WoW can still immerse a player but I think it depends a lot on the player. I feel like the more invested you are in the lore (books, short stories, etc) the easier it is to immerse yourself in the game.
    I have never read any of the WoW books because I always found that you can discover most of the major lore in-game. Maybe the smaller details of lore in the books would help the immersion factor for myself and others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    WoW can be immersive but the problem is most people have been playing it for a long time they no longer care about being immersed. They just want to blow through the content as fast as possible.
    I think this is a sad but true statement. Each to their own but on the other hand these people are missing out on a lot of great content.

  14. #174
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post

    That stuff has mostly always been there. It IS the things people mistook for inconveniences.
    Untrue and not really the point anyway. The wide spread and pervasive usage of all the tools available to the players was never as big as it is now. In general the player is much bigger than the game and it has NOTHING to do with the game itself. They tried exactly what you guys are asking for in mists and it fooled precisely NOBODY. You can't fool people once they know better, the magic trick stops being magic.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #175
    Untrue and not really the point anyway. The wide spread and pervasive usage of all the tools available to the players was never as big as it is now. In general the player is much bigger than the game and it has NOTHING to do with the game itself. They tried exactly what you guys are asking for in mists and it fooled precisely NOBODY. You can't fool people once they know better, the magic trick stops being magic.
    Tools have built up over time indeed. From things as small as getting your mount at level 20. Flying in BC. Portals. LFD in Wrath. LFR, PvP Queuing and 310% flying available for gold (PvP queuing may have been implemented in wrath I can't remember) in Cata.

    To take away these conveniences would be more of a nuisance to players and would anger people over the game rather than immerse them within it.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVLodge View Post
    Tools have built up over time indeed. From things as small as getting your mount at level 20. Flying in BC. Portals. LFD in Wrath. LFR, PvP Queuing and 310% flying available for gold (PvP queuing may have been implemented in wrath I can't remember) in Cata.

    To take away these conveniences would be more of a nuisance to players and would anger people over the game rather than immerse them within it.

    It wouldn't fool a fucking person. They tried it in mists and it didn't work. Hell even if you took those out the rest of the community (like from mods and web pages and shit) would rob the immersion anyway. Seriously quest helper was a user mod that DESTROYED the immersion of questing. Developers didn't do it. Recount and Skada destroy the illusion that you are stronger than you actually are. Developers didn't do it.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #177
    Seriously quest helper was a user mod that DESTROYED the immersion of questing. Developers didn't do it. Recount and Skada destroy the illusion that you are stronger than you actually are. Developers didn't do it.Seriously quest helper was a user mod that DESTROYED the immersion of questing. Developers didn't do it.
    I agree but the questhelper mod, imo, should have remained unimplemented. If people wanted to be handheld go download the addon. It isn't hard and it gives everyone an option if they desire it.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by TVLodge View Post
    I agree but the questhelper mod, imo, should have remained unimplemented. If people wanted to be handheld go download the addon. It isn't hard and it gives everyone an option if they desire it.
    IB4 ''There's an interface option to turn it off''.

    Anyway, reading through the thread a second time I got to agree with one thing, and that is the ''risk free'' playing. There's no 'strategy' left in the game, there's no thinking, people just fart through the content without facing any danger at all.

    I miss the roaming elites, like the scarlet groups in Eastern Plageulands if you tried to pick a rune up from the ground that spawned in your face, or even the Fel Reaver in Hellfire Peninsula, and even that big stone giant walking around with 3 Kobolds in Arathi Highlands.

    I also miss the elites outside the dungeons, that you had to assemble your groups to fight through it to enter the instance.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyclone View Post
    Very little, but nowhere near as immersive as it used to be. I miss the time where if you made stupid decisions you paid the price. I remember getting my Ashkandi for the first time and my guild treating me as a god. Nothing feels like an achievement anymore, in other words everything feels like a chore. Below are my "ratings of immersion" for each expansion.

    Mists of Pandaria: 4.3
    Cataclysm: 6.1
    Wrath of the Lich King: 8.5
    The Burning Crusade: 9.3
    Vanilla: 8.9

    The Burning Crusade/Wrath of the Lich King being my favorites.
    I always thought TBC was the ultimate immersion-breaker with its fucking stupid crashing spaceships and spacey zones that totally broke the vanilla WoW feel. That's really where all the hate for Warcraft lore started.

    Then again my immersion has always focused on lore and surroundings, maybe some people get immersed by different things.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruul View Post
    I always thought TBC was the ultimate immersion-breaker with its fucking stupid crashing spaceships and spacey zones that totally broke the vanilla WoW feel. That's really where all the hate for Warcraft lore started.

    Then again my immersion has always focused on lore and surroundings, maybe some people get immersed by different things.
    I get immersed by my surroundings (not in flight) and groupplay with random people (from my own server who I can probably meet again without having to resort to friendslists (which might come later) or real ID's).

    I loved doing BRD over and over and over again. It was so huge there was more or less always something different each time.

    Also recognizing stuff from WCIII, II, I ingame is really nice aswell.

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