Horde - Garrosh complications. Alliance - ???

[Ianus]

Nope. Never disbanded. US doesn't become a new country when the President changes. Or any Kingdom when the king changes. Or any company when the CEO changes.

same with horde if there are same members and new members join its still US and they just changed CEO :P

[Aquamonkey]

same with horde if there are same members and new members join its still US and they just changed CEO :P

Nope. The orcs in the internment camps were disbanded from the Horde. They didn't join the continuation in the Dark Horde. They formed a new organization.

Like those devs from Blizzard that left and made their own company. They didn't make Blizzard over again.

[Jinx16]

Doesn't matter if every single member is the same. The original organization was disbanded. Them coming together again makes it a new organization.

Lets say a band is playing a show, a huge fight break out and all the band members are arrested. The band breaks up, but after getting out of the slammer, the lead singer recruits new members and restarts his band with the same name as the old band. Is it really the same band? Sorta yes, sorta no.

[lunchbox2042]

Maybe if the alliance asked to have one of its characters become the bad guy and add some contrast to your faction, you might get some depth to it.

This is why the horde has more interesting story, because it has its share of good guys and bad guys in it, well the alliance keeps perpetuating itself as holy-good-boys, and thats.. really boring.

I was unaware that the players wrote the lore for this game. Last time I checked it was Metzen, the Horde lover, that wrote it.

[Dreknar20]

Nope. The orcs in the internment camps were disbanded from the Horde.

likewise, the Orcish Horde was crushed after the war
some remenants formed the dark horde
others formed the fel horde
others formed the new horde
and others stayed put in Garadar

[Ianus]

Nope. The orcs in the internment camps were disbanded from the Horde. They didn't join the continuation in the Dark Horde. They formed a new organization.

i give up u cant be reasoned with ...if alliance was the same they would have lordaeron in their name..

[lazypeon100]

i give up u cant be reasoned with ...if alliance was the same they would have lordaeron in their name..

Except you're ignoring facts and reason. The alliance never disbanded as far as I can recall.

Did some things change? Sure. That doesn't mean the organization is different though.

As for the Horde, it could have all members made up of the Old Horde, that doesn't mean it's the same. The Old Horde was disbanded. A new one was formed, and the goals are different. All of the members very well COULD be the same (and they aren't, considering there are other races in the Horde), that doesn't mean it's the same, especially if the goals are different.

[Jinx16]

likewise, the Orcish Horde was crushed after the war
some remenants formed the dark horde
others formed the fel horde
others formed the new horde
and others stayed put in Garadar

In the aftermath of the interment camps the Orcs got a second chance to follow a new path if they wished. Instead they formed an army, called it the Horde, named thier leader "Warchief" and drank Mannoroth's blood again.

I'll just let Dave Chapelle explain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1KHqi9bXc

[Aquamonkey]

In the aftermath of the interment camps the Orcs got a second chance to follow a new path if they wished. Instead they formed an army, called it the Horde, named thier leader "Warchief" and drank Mannoroth's blood again.

I'll just let Dave Chapelle explain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1KHqi9bXc

...And aided in the defense of the planet. And were so different that Jaina stood against her father to preserve the peace she had made between the Alliance and Horde.

"After much soul-searching, Jaina chose the latter and helped Thrall defeat her crazed father. Unfortunately Admiral Proudmoore died in battle before Jaina could reconcile with him or prove that orcs were no longer bloodthirsty monsters."

[Jinx16]

...And aided in the defense of the planet. And were so different that Jaina stood against her father to preserve the peace she had made between the Alliance and Horde.

"After much soul-searching, Jaina chose the latter and helped Thrall defeat her crazed father. Unfortunately Admiral Proudmoore died in battle before Jaina could reconcile with him or prove that orcs were no longer bloodthirsty monsters."

Dude, I agree, the Orcs are not bloody monsters anymore. However, they surrounded themselves in the trappings of bloody monsters. They adopted the brand of the first Horde, I think this was a stupid move, but there it is. If you name your band "The Rolling Stones" you can't be mad when people ask "Where's Mick Jagger?"

[Scummer]

Why are they not playing up Miora! that dark iron betch

Moira's cool and I really like what they're doing with her. She's in 5.3 and in 5.4. Hopefully we'll see the other leaders get developed too so that council doesn't become lop sided. Ofcourse Moira is pretty new to the story as a whole having been in BRD the whole time so it's only natural that she's first in line.

[Talen]

Notice how WoW's Alliance hasn't been properly engineered into a reservoir from which storylines and momentum can be effortlessly gathered for current and future use. Entire Onyxia debacle was the last immersive storyline that could be squeezed out from this assortment of generic and shallow material that this faction chiefly consists of.

You disagree with me by agreeing with me?

WoW developers face a task that is becoming harder and harder with each passing packet of content: make Alliance into a pool of inspiration both for Alliance related content and gameplay experience for those of us who have chosen to main this faction.

And they can do that in any XPac they choose. The Allaince is already established. They just aren't being used.

THERE IS SIMPLY NO TIME LEFT ANYMORE FOR BLIZZARD TO FLESH OUT ALLIANCE, take from that what you will.

There is no deadline.

Yes, I do believe that expansions will cease at lvl 100.

Then you are wrong. There is no reason to stop at 100.

past level 100 any more level brackets would make it insanely hard and frustrating for any newcomer to reach endgame - place where the best fun is had.

As is the assumption there is no way around this, if it even becomes an issue.

...And aided in the defense of the planet. And were so different that Jaina stood against her father to preserve the peace she had made between the Alliance and Horde.

"After much soul-searching, Jaina chose the latter and helped Thrall defeat her crazed father. Unfortunately Admiral Proudmoore died in battle before Jaina could reconcile with him or prove that orcs were no longer bloodthirsty monsters."

And she has since concluded she was wrong. That while her experience of Thrall and other is valid, many actually are bloodthirsty monsters

EJL

[mjolnir1122]

Maybe if the alliance asked to have one of its characters become the bad guy and add some contrast to your faction, you might get some depth to it.

This is why the horde has more interesting story, because it has its share of good guys and bad guys in it, well the alliance keeps perpetuating itself as holy-good-boys, and thats.. really boring.

Thing is though is that if you flesh out the characters enough, give the players more to work with in-game, then even though they might be all holy-good-boys, they wouldn't have such a linear personification. Look at Varian, he's had quite a bit of ups and downs, twists and turns. But most probably don't know why he went from a bloodthirsty warrior to a calculating, intelligent commander who mixes brains with brawn. If more of his past struggle was displayed or made available in-game, it would make his character more immersive.

All of the Alliance leaders are actually pretty damn cool if you dig up their full lore. It's just not represented in-game, and to me that's a waste. Many people aren't going to go out of their way to read a book or a 12 page short story on a fictional character, so the actual audience they're speaking to by going about it in that way isn't the smartest.

I just hope they learn from their mistakes and start fleshing out all of the leaders, both Horde and Alliance, in the coming years. It would put Blizz in a good spot lore wise and maybe even bring back some of the immersiveness back into the game.

[Aquamonkey]

And she has since concluded she was wrong. That while her experience of Thrall and other is valid, many actually are bloodthirsty monsters

No. Bloodthirsty monsters are "Rawr, smash!" Garrosh attacked the Alliance in a calculated manner and had legitimate grievance.

[Burnick]

Hello everyone, this is a thread where I simply ask, what do we get as alliance players lore-wise?

The whole Garrosh scene has been really big for the horde, and it's a huge part of the horde's lore.

I feel that as an alliance player, we don't get enough lore to think about & lore that really affects us. The Ironforge leadership thing wasn't really that big, and didn't get as much attention as it deserved.

You have to think, The Burning Crusader and WOTLK were HIGHLY packed with alliance lore, more then horde. So where is the pain in having cata and MoP give horde alot of lore? How do you think they felt during TBC and WOTLK where the two main big bads originated from the alliance factions. llidan a night elf, Arthas the prince of lordaeron and a human, tirion who helped defeat arthas, along with it was almost fully the alliance army which invaded the citadel. Bolvar who takes the place as the next lich king, who was also an alliance solider ect, And then finished it all off with the return of their king ect.

As a horde player I honestly feel bad the alliance do get screwed over next patch but hell, they have had a shit ton of lore development in the past well the horde got non.

[Deleted]

No. Bloodthirsty monsters are "Rawr, smash!" Garrosh attacked the Alliance in a calculated manner and had legitimate grievance.

Yeah, his legitimate grievance was "Kill Alliance scuuuuuum!"

[Dreknar20]

And she has since concluded she was wrong. That while her experience of Thrall and other is valid, many actually are bloodthirsty monsters

Orcs are no more monsters/evil than any other race

[Viradiance]

Maybe if the alliance asked to have one of its characters become the bad guy and add some contrast to your faction, you might get some depth to it.

This is why the horde has more interesting story, because it has its share of good guys and bad guys in it, well the alliance keeps perpetuating itself as holy-good-boys, and thats.. really boring.

*clears throat, unfurls list*

Arthas Menethil
Illidan Stormrage
Maiev Shadowsong
Sylvanas Windrunner (don't act like she wasn't Alliance before she was killed and raised into the Lich Queen)
Fandral Staghelm
Kel'thuzad

Names a few...

[Aquamonkey]

Yeah, his legitimate grievance was "Kill Alliance scuuuuuum!"

Or "providing supplies vital to his people: food, lumber, and the other essentials for living, which are growing scarcer in the recent drought. If these can only be gained through the blood of selfish Alliance dogs, so be it."

[Viradiance]

Thing is though is that if you flesh out the characters enough, give the players more to work with in-game, then even though they might be all holy-good-boys, they wouldn't have such a linear personification. Look at Varian, he's had quite a bit of ups and downs, twists and turns. But most probably don't know why he went from a bloodthirsty warrior to a calculating, intelligent commander who mixes brains with brawn. If more of his past struggle was displayed or made available in-game, it would make his character more immersive.

All of the Alliance leaders are actually pretty damn cool if you dig up their full lore. It's just not represented in-game, and to me that's a waste. Many people aren't going to go out of their way to read a book or a 12 page short story on a fictional character, so the actual audience they're speaking to by going about it in that way isn't the smartest.

I just hope they learn from their mistakes and start fleshing out all of the leaders, both Horde and Alliance, in the coming years. It would put Blizz in a good spot lore wise and maybe even bring back some of the immersiveness back into the game.

Burning Crusade: lolno. Homeworld of the Orcs, adopted world of the Draenei. Draenei lore ended pretty quickly, never getting as far as the raid level, and was totally Blood Elf lore by the end (Half of Black Temple, Sunwell, The Eye).

Wrath of the Lich King: Moreso than Burning Crusade, arguably. Tauren and Dwarves both uncover long lost ancient relatives. Forsaken faction schism, large scale forsaken military movement against the Lich King. Small bit of Gnome lore. Reasonable bit of Blood Elf lore (via Sunreavers, Quel'delar). Minor Night Elf lore (failed world tree). 0 Draenei lore (what the fuck else is new?). Major human lore. Little Orc lore. Little Troll lore (not the right kind of trolls, at least).