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  1. #41
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    Have GC mentioned any changes to AT and trinket procs? That's pretty much the most annoying problem for all the mage classes atm when wush or both procs inside AT in the beginning.

  2. #42
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    These trinkets don't need to exist like this. It's causing these scaling issues in all sorts of places.

    Does anyone else kind of wish we didn't have so much DPS relegated to 2 item slots?

    I'm not sure I understand the goal of developers to have trinkets matter more than abilities themselves. And further, what's it feel like to be someone who can't get those trinkets? Personally I'm irritated that my guild has been farming Heroic Megaera for ages and I still have a normal mode (though upgraded) BotH. It's not that I even care about the item, it's knowing how crucial it is to numbers.


    Bloody annoying game design.
    This is probably one of the best thought-out posts, regarding how things are situated in the Mage world. While I do prefer playing Arcane (the noob in me just LOVES magic in it's purest form), I know that Fire and Frost are the real "go to" Specs of the class. While I am absolutely horrible at Fire (I have had pulls in excess of 750K many times, which have then gone down to an average of 150K DPS, because I just don't seem to get it when it comes to play style), I'm finding that I'm pretty good at Frost and can anticipate things much more correctly, after some private messages from Polarthief and reading Kuni's Frost Mage Guide, which has a LOT of astounding tips from Akraen (for which I will always be humbly grateful).

    Now, back to the post, I have to agree that the focus of the developers on pushing silly amounts of stats onto only two slots, when they could be better spending their time by actually LOOKING at the entire Class and focusing on the real issues at hand, will do nothing except to keep the anger going with so many people (I've pretty much stopped looking at the "official" Blizzard forums due to the amount of hate being spewed there), and it will only keep dividing the people who play the different Specs of the Mage Class.

    We need to hang together here, or we're all going to hang separately, which will not help the matter at all.

    Cheers everyone, and have a great weekend!

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  3. #43
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelkder View Post
    This is probably one of the best thought-out posts, regarding how things are situated in the Mage world.
    You sure that was the right quote?

  4. #44
    High Overlord Vaelkder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    You sure that was the right quote?
    Yes, I am. It was concise, had no nastiness in it, and addressed the situation. Therefore, it was extremely well thought.

    "Never underestimate the depth of stupidity." Robert Heinlein

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    The only reason I haven't mentioned it, because it isn't an option. I would be fine if all 3 specs had the same stat priorities, and switch when needed. I really was hoping to switch between arcane and frost next tier but it's not viable. I am willing to switch for fights if I HAD 3 sets of gear, but it's just not possible. I barely have the dkp for one set of gear, let alone 3. That is why I yearn for arcane to be as viable as fire, so we don't need to start carrying around different sets of gear. I don't particularly like fires playstyle, however it doesn't mean if it was viable in arcane gear I wouldn't play it on fights that it does way better on (durumu for example). The only reason I tweeted GC is because I didn't want, what people keep telling me is that fire just is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered and strong at higher ilvls, I don't want to be forced fire, it's obvious. We don't know where the specs stand yet, but I didn't want to gear up for arcane, and then be shit on by lolfiremage dps because arcane isn't viable.

    I play this game to have fun, fire just isn't fun for me, however raiding is. I don't think it should be a necessity to HAVE to play one spec, or that one spec is insanely overpowered. Blizzard has made it a point to try and balance all three specs in a class if they're all dps if possible. When picking a mage, you assume blizzard which they have stated that is their goal, is going to let you decide what you want to raid with, and still progress with. I have no problem with where arcane/fire are on live. I have good dps fights with our fire mage, who is a slightly higher ilvl.

    Everyones turning me into this villain that wants fire unplayable -- No, I want fire on arcanes level, and I want frost on arcanes and fires level, so mages are free to choose what they want, not have to pick one insanely overpowered spec to progress.

    Every class is like this. You don't want to play Fire but I do, as Arcane is boring as hell to me. With the gear I have, managing mana isn't difficult. I swap between arcane and Fire all through Tot and have been on the PTR. Frost is the Pvp spec for mages and time will prove this true when 5.4 hits.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Everyones turning me into this villain that wants fire unplayable -- No, I want fire on arcanes level, and I want frost on arcanes and fires level, so mages are free to choose what they want, not have to pick one insanely overpowered spec to progress.
    I think the right angle to take would be buffing Frost/Arc mobility. Mechanically both specs are without a doubt superior to Fire on target switching, multi-dotting, and AOE. Mobility is a bigger deal than all of those though. Blizzard probably is going to think the Ice Floes and RoP buff is enough unfortunately, but keep bugging him otherwise. Still a couple weeks before to get some changes in. Gl man.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    These trinkets don't need to exist like this. It's causing these scaling issues in all sorts of places.

    Does anyone else kind of wish we didn't have so much DPS relegated to 2 item slots?

    I'm not sure I understand the goal of developers to have trinkets matter more than abilities themselves. And further, what's it feel like to be someone who can't get those trinkets? Personally I'm irritated that my guild has been farming Heroic Megaera for ages and I still have a normal mode (though upgraded) BotH. It's not that I even care about the item, it's knowing how crucial it is to numbers.

    Bloody annoying game design.
    It's quite annoying. Sucks knowing that I get half the int proc that a heroic BotH gives on pulls. I'm still using a 510 LotC at 544 ilvl lol.

  8. #48
    I love the tweet about fire mages not scaling out of control and then watching some mages on the PTR pull bursts of over 2 million damage per second. That being said, I'm not complaining too much as I also play a fire mage, but if they nerf the top end gear for fire mages, I think it will be somewhat deserved.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterdestod View Post
    I love the tweet about fire mages not scaling out of control and then watching some mages on the PTR pull bursts of over 2 million damage per second. That being said, I'm not complaining too much as I also play a fire mage, but if they nerf the top end gear for fire mages, I think it will be somewhat deserved.
    It's all going swimmingly, all the attention is on the super OP fire burst while our OP arcane burst just kind of flies under the radar, people aren't seeming to notice that even on live currently, arcane bursts for close to if not over a million on council/dark animus

  10. #50
    High Overlord Neonore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyness View Post
    Why would you be frost lol? /cut/
    Because he can, can we stop this kind of nonsense please? It's getting old.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    It's all going swimmingly, all the attention is on the super OP fire burst while our OP arcane burst just kind of flies under the radar, people aren't seeming to notice that even on live currently, arcane bursts for close to if not over a million on council/dark animus
    Mm, just dreading for 5.4 atm.. Like everything atm seems too good to be true, something will get shot down for both arcane and fire, and we will end up crap again..

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    Question for me is, if they nerf the damage, which spells will it come from?

    From a purely selfish (PVP) point of view i really really hope they look at combust and ignite before going near pyro, as that will be a massive kick in the balls to fire pvp, which in 5.4 due to the icicles shenanigans going on with frost, fire will be the competitive spec.

    If pyro does get too hard hit tho, fires burst (which is what the spec revolves around i.e gibbing a target at around 75% hp in a deep with cds) will pretty much be gutted and with our sustained damage being one of the worst in game due to ignite dispells, combustion triple dipping from resil and low scorch coefficient i cant see a very bright future for mages at high ratings at all
    Fire will not be compettive spec if frost will drop on lvl of fire mages becom useless for pvp. Mages are just terible designed class. Stupid RNG in every spec. Only arcane is litle bit different but fire and forst = push fire/frost bolt wait till you screen start glow and push others buttons. We have completly outtaded specs and we need some serious rework.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritterdestod View Post
    I love the tweet about fire mages not scaling out of control and then watching some mages on the PTR pull bursts of over 2 million damage per second. That being said, I'm not complaining too much as I also play a fire mage, but if they nerf the top end gear for fire mages, I think it will be somewhat deserved.
    And ? We have warlocks in guild what can pull out over 1m in single spell on single target ye i am talkign about chaos bolt.
    Last edited by Sinndor; 2013-08-05 at 12:19 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    And ? We have warlocks in guild what can pull out over 1m in single spell on single target ye i am talkign about chaos bolt.
    I think you missed the part where he said 2 mill PER SECOND, a chaosbolt will easily do 1 mill damage but it has a casttime of I guess 2-2,5 secs depending on haste level. Doing only chaosbolts would net you a dps of roughly 400-500k, which is a lot but not on the ridiculous levels of fire.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Craif View Post
    I think you missed the part where he said 2 mill PER SECOND, a chaosbolt will easily do 1 mill damage but it has a casttime of I guess 2-2,5 secs depending on haste level. Doing only chaosbolts would net you a dps of roughly 400-500k, which is a lot but not on the ridiculous levels of fire.
    2mil ye on cleave every class ahve huge dmg spikes on cleave and in ToT there is like few boss fights with clave nothing big. Warlocks and SP have still better dmg in raids overall.

  15. #55
    I stopped playing my mage at the start of Cata because I didn't agree with Blizzard's design philosophies and direction for the class, plus they've shown nothing since then that would prove me wrong. They still have no idea what they want from the specs and have not been able to balance them in the slightest. That said, if the problem is mainly only cleave fights, then do something about Combustion and call it a day.

  16. #56
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Fire will not be compettive spec if frost will drop on lvl of fire mages becom useless for pvp. Mages are just terible designed class. Stupid RNG in every spec. Only arcane is litle bit different but fire and forst = push fire/frost bolt wait till you screen start glow and push others buttons. We have completly outtaded specs and we need some serious rework.
    I'm assuming english is not your first language so i'm not going to do the usual douchebag thing about grammer that some ppl on this forum get a hard-on about.

    However its clear you have no idea how fire is played in pvp. At no point do you ever use fireball for hot streak procs, the spec revolves around using inferno blast to force heating up/hot streak and livingbomb/cc'ing/spellsteal/los'ing inbetween cds then bursting with instant pyros with shatter/deep.

    This is predominantly why the sustained damage is so bad as there is literally none, then when you do get a decent ignite on the target after bursting it can be negated by one gcd dispell therefore your cc has to be totally on point.

    You are right about one thing tho the specs are outdated in the fact that they revolve around basically one spell, deep freeze, which makes the damage entirely predictable and easy to counter.

    Whether or not fire becomes the main competitive spec for pvp remains to be seen i think more mages will perhaps give it a go and it actually has more cc than frost with dragons breath. Icicles is still being tuned on the ptr and the outcome from that will probably dictate a paradigm shift.

    Just wish they would address the dispell issue and the fact the combustion triple dips from resil
    Last edited by villie; 2013-08-06 at 08:37 AM.

  17. #57
    Okay got a tweet from lore regardding the rppm change. It seems to be a 10k-20k dps loss currently and this is what I asked him


    @devolore What are the current plans for rppm "nerf" compensation you mentioned..Kinda worried Q_Q.

    The reply:

    Josh Allen ‏@devolore 5h
    @etnies445 We know we'll likely need to buff many specs to compensate. On the radar for when we start numbers tuning



    That makes me happy -- But does many specs mean all specs? I don't know of any current spec that DOESN'T lose dmg from this. I'm slightly worried mages won't be included in this, which would severely hurt us. I'm hoping the devs know the state of mages more than anyone else, and understand how much dps we gain from rppms.

    I don't want for mages to not get compensated -- We log on get the legendary cloak and all it did was make us about as strong as we were pre-5.4. I'd feel like the cloak was wasted, I'm not really any stronger than I was when I didn't have it...And that our scaling will be a little skewed without the rppms. I feel like mages like all other classes definitely need to see some love after this.

    Hopefully many specs means most specs excluding like...tanking. And maybe healing ones.

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