2. Stop putting words in my mouth: I didn't say it was perfect. I said it is what it is and trying to change it into something it isn't is a waste of time. That's my opinion. Frankly, life is too short and wasting any piece of it on tilting at windmills when there are other projects out there that would be more worthwhile is not a good use of it.
Just to be clear, if I have anything to say to anyone as a moderator it will look like this.
Otherwise I'm just like anyone else and should be treated as such. If there are issues, feel free to PM me or send a message to an admin or something.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-08-01 at 08:40 PM.
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Sturgeon's Law states that 90% of everything is crap. When posting try and be in the 10% once in a while. It makes it better for everyone. First rule: Post about the topic, not about one another.
For the love of science, we are not talking about religion here, remain open and join the conversation, you might not like mine and vice versa but that ok.
(meant for everyone)
If this happened wow would turn to F2P and than have less than 100,000 subscribers than 0 within a few weeks.
Heck, one time I posted that maybe it would be nice for everyone to try and be nice to each other in game, to always put forth their best effort, and to maybe try and educate "bad" players instead of raging at them all the time. I was shocked at the number of posters who couldn't even get on board with that!!!
The original topic was about emergent gameplay. Let players "direct the plot".
You can have that without impacting the solo player much as long as you provide things for him to do. Those who want the "drama", competition, ... etc., they can go ahead and have their "clan wars". Those who don't can, as you mentioned, do 5-mans, LFR, level alts, ... etc.
The problem with WoW is players have next to no control over how things play out - apart from clear raid, don't clear raid.
WoW is no longer an MMORPG. It is now a MMOAAG (Massively Multiplayer Online Action Adventure Game)
Me and most of my gaming friends would love a decent MMO like that again, we're really tired of the theme park MMOs.
The problem with other MMOs like this failing wasn't because the concept was bad, or people didn't enjoy it, it's just that usually MMOs designed like this have low production values and very little polish so playing them is like scratching your eyes with a rusty spoon. But really, nearly every MMO that released since they existed, except for WoW, has been low production value.
The only first really polished MMO that is going to be released again is Wildstar...
Last edited by Rochana; 2013-08-01 at 09:24 PM.
The "hero" thing is kind of stupid. I cringe a little every time "hero" shows up in quest text. Do we really need to have a game "flatter" us? And for most part, apart from quest text, we aren't really treated like "heroes". The illusion is incomplete. The insincerity shows.
Secondly, WoW doesn't give you much choice in what to do. You are herded from one zone to another, from one quest chain to another. There aren't any choices for your character to make. We all grind the same rep, run the same dungeons, level the same bunch of professions in the same predetermined way, ... etc. We are practically on-rails. Can we say, "No. I don't want to do Garrosh's bidding."? Nope, you aren't given an alternative. Don't do the quests you say, sure get blocked out of an entire zone of content ...
But the game I most fondly remember was LineAge II ... It gave much more sense of a community than WoW ever did... and it pretty much is close to what the OP described. Dungeons weren't instanced, but were like huge battlefields where multiple guilds tried to fight their ways through the enemy (pve) army, to reach the bosses. That was truely epic and gave a real sense of some war going on between your faction and some enemy faction.
Imagine if Icecrown Citadel hadn't been instanced, but was a world zone where you had to fight through the Scourge army to reach the bosses. Many raidgroups perished and died, others stormed through the frontlines victoriously and ended up slaying raidbosses with half the server staring at them in awe from a far and a safe distance. Because when this happened hundreds of guilds usually had been trying for weeks already to try and get through the armies of enemies (and gearing up from the materials those dropped).
Last edited by Rochana; 2013-08-01 at 09:44 PM.
Last edited by Xeraxis; 2013-08-01 at 09:52 PM.
People need to get rid of this "stand in awe at the top raiders" mentality.
Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-08-01 at 09:54 PM.
Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Normal Voice | Mod Voice
Secondly, you're dead wrong. There were many many guilds that got great experiences from those non-instanced raids on every realm, some non-instanced raids were even developped so that you needed multiple guilds to work together to simultaneously get through the raidzone to begin with.
Thirdly. I don't care about MMOs that cater to the lowest common denominator. I want quality. I don't care if it a few thousands or a few hundred thousand subscribers, some of the best online MMOs I play currently only have a few hundred members and have more content, activity and more community drive than WoW. So really... WoW is just like fast-food, not quality for more dedicated MMO players, in my PERSONAL experience.
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I'll stick to what I consider quality instead.
In reality LFR is a consolation prize that was nonchalantly dumped on casual players so that they can continue to focus on putting out new heroic raids for hardcore guilds every three months without having to "waste" time creating new heroic 5-mans for the casuals. I agree that there should be a middle ground. The choices shouldn't be:Please do away with 5-man content that my friends and I can knock out in 30-45 minutes and replace it with a 25-man raid that I never wanted to do. While you're at it, set it up so that my 4 friends and I are forced to group with 20 people, many of whom will complain about being 'forced' to 'carry' the others, some of whom will go AFK to prove a point, and some of whom will be experiencing this content for the first time and will therefore drop dead about 20 seconds into each boss fight, thereby expanding every 25-minute LFR run to 90 minutes. Oh, yeah. While you're at it please give me a flat 15% loot drop rate that is effectively gimped to 5% once I've collected or superseded the 2/3 useful items that drop from a given boss. That's what I've been dreaming of!
Unfortunately those are the options today's casual player is given.
- Run 20-minute 3-mans that don't even require healers or tanks
- Play with 9-24 other people even though you really only wanted to play with 3 or 4 of your friends
Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-08-01 at 10:05 PM.