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If there was a recipe to make a successful game in parallel to WoW, somebody would already do it. Instead, we only get pityful attempts at differentiating ourselves from WoW. Even high-tech MMOs turn (a slightly different segment) turn to junk, which is amazing in itself.
OP: if you wanted serious death penalties, you should try Realm of the Mad God. It literally punishes you for your heroic deeds.
But keep this list away from WoW.
Ironically, LFR could be viewed as a punishment to the raiding community for their inability to be inclusive. If people of lesser experience and skill were welcomed into raiding guilds and pugs, requested and were given proper assistance by those with the experience to give it, LFR wouldn't be necessary at all. Flex raiding, for all of its faults perceived or otherwise, is a new way to accomplish exactly that. I'm skeptical that it will be used in that way but I guess time will tell.
The theme park elements in WoW are designed to keep players from being jerks to each other. That's why groups have in-game looting systems. That's why Guild Leaders can set restrictions on their guild vaults. That's why there are PvE-only servers. That's why there are instanced dungeons. Otherwise players can either choose to join a big group of bullies that terrorizes everyone else or resign themselves to being terrorized by everyone else. Some people enjoy that style of play, but most people don't.
If you want a sandbox game by all means go find one. Please quit lamenting that WoW isn't a sandbox game. It was never intended to be one, and very few players want to play one.
Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-08-02 at 10:08 PM.
No company is ever going to make a game like this, so the entire discussion is pretty futile. The underlying reason is that the developers will take a step back and say "is this fun?" and it just won't be.
I will say that I loved vanilla WoW more than I enjoy it's current state, just because it felt more like a journey or an adventure than it does today, but I wonder if that is the game's fault or the fact that I've been playing it for eight years now and either way, I still enjoy it so who cares? Yes, it has been watered down a bit, catering to casuals etc but when you think back to vanilla WoW, some of the grindy shit in there was just plain dumb. I'm talking about farming flasks and potions for raiding, resistance gear, trying to get 40 people online and in step, zero way to gear alts up to Naxx raiding level without doing old raids. I don't want to go back to any of that.
None of this shit being suggested is fun, at all. I love some PvP, I'll take on anyone, but if I lost 10% of a level and some items every time I got ganked, I would stop that shit all together, how is that fun? Especially when you consider that the increased death penalty would encourage more griefing because it actually hurts you rather than just pissing you off. It's silly, doesn't need to be there, WoW used to have plenty of world PvP without any silly death penalty crap because people would just have a go at each other for the hell of it, for fun.
Also, I know this is getting ranty but "get rid of instances" WHAT? So killing bosses is now the exclusive domain of no-lifers who can be on all day long, no thanks. I have a nice routine, I work, I raid, it works for me (and many others.) I can't be online at a moment's notice at 4am because Dragonface just spawned but I can set aside 4 hours a night to raid with my team. It's far more controlled and relaxed this way. I actually agree that there is a place for old school world bosses, sure. Maybe I won't get to see or kill them very often (I didn't with Galleon) but I don't mind. As long as there is still an endgame that people can play on demand in the instances, otherwise there is basically nothing to do at max level unless you want to go ganking people.
TLDR: All these ideas are horrible, there's a reason EQ got eclipsed by WoW.
At the end of the day, the guy that the OP quoted has no obligation towards any greater power (i.e parent company) that he would spend the money on to make the game he suggests.
But hey - this is the age of kickstarter programms. Get your ass up. Put your ideas on the line. See if you get enough people who believe in your ideas to lay down their money to make a game that OP suggests.
Sink or swim...who knows...you might re-define MMOs.
But I have my doubts this will ever float. There is something cool about starting discussions on forums how things should be and be all cool about writing this shit up. And something totally different of trying to make it work.
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...and I agree 100% with you.
"It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."
— Alan Moore
It's a big enough game to encompass all of those types of players though and I'm OK with that. If that's what they want to do that's fine as it doesn't affect me and isn't really any of my business anyway. The issue is that some disparage those that are along for a good time and thereby isolate themselves into an enclave community that congratulates itself behind its closed walls. Then they propose not to expand the game to encompass more players of different skill levels but to eliminate or beat to death those things that lesser skilled players enjoy--LFR, pet battles, farming, mini-games--so that the game as a whole reflects the world view of their enclave. It's bad for the game because it doesn't work and it's bad for gaming generally. Which after all is about the reason most of us play games to start with: to have fun and share experience with like-minded people.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-08-02 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Sorry I edited this so many times but this one I wanted to get right. [ML]
agree with point 2 and 8 to a degree. Jut the other things are just horrible suggestions.
The kind of MMO you're describing wouldn't work anymore. The only people that have time for such a game are teenagers and students who don't have to do fuck all all day and can play games 15 hours a day. People that have to work and keep the country from collapsing, don't have time for 'no easy travel' ... that's just a waste of time. If wow would incorporate even half of your ideas, I would unsubscribe the very same day as they announced it.
I hope I haven't been beaten to it: No.
I encourage competent play styles and improving over time, but all that stuff sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy. Financial seppuku, if you will.
With the news coming out about Everquest Next recently, I think we might see a game changer in the near future which is trying to break out of the mold of the current MMO formula that everyone is currently copying and that Blizzard owns.
No thanks, I want it all and I want it now.
Lets all go to the Blizz-store, Lets all go to the Blizz-store, Lets all go to the Blizz-store to buy ourselves some treats. Delicious things for geeks, the Pixels can't be beat. The Achievement points are just dandy, them sparkling mounts are quite handy. So Lets all go to the Blizz-store and buy ourselves a treat.
Would you mind explaining what it means to play a game simply because it's fun? Angry Birds is about throwing animals at objects, if I do that and do not enjoy myself, but at the same time, I'm playing Dark Souls dying hundreds of times grinding my way slowly through the game and enjoying every minute of it, does that mean I don't play games because they're fun? What if I find challenge rewarding and fun and mind-numbing games with no real point to them to be extremely boring? Is my way of fun somehow the wrong way and should thus not count as fun at all?