Did they change enhance at all for 5.4?

[thunderdragon2]

Imo enhance needs a thought out revamp. The way it's played now is not innovative or exciting.

im going to disagree altho ive just picked the spec up, so ill see how i feel about it in a year or 2

[Deleted]

Moar nerfs.

Glyph of Healing Storm Each application of Maelstrom Weapon also increases your direct healing done by 20%. Major Glyph.
Healing Storm Each application of Maelstrom Weapon also increases your direct healing done by 20%. Major Glyph. Instant

And they reverted the HR 25 man buff and gave another +100% restoration only.

Nobody can say they weren't expecting this. I feel our utility is more than warranted in raids - Stormlash + Healing Tide + Healing tier talent (prolly Guidance but what the heck) and a nice Chain heal.

I think we are more or less going back to the first tier of MoP with the glyph and RPPM changes.

[Xanda]

I hust hope they don't screw us with the RPPM change.

[culo]

frankly there's no reason to take an enh now vs gearing up a hunter and bringing another lock/mage

[Deleted]

I hust hope they don't screw us with the RPPM change.

The moment they changed the glyph we were already in trouble. The RPPM change is ridiculous in the sense the system is flawed because you have classes like us that has their entire stat weight changed and is dependant on them to be competitive. See Demonology/Windwalkers.

IMO unless drastic EB changes are coming in the next weeks, I think we are getting shafted into Unleash Fury again.

[asharia]

frankly there's no reason to take an enh now vs gearing up a hunter and bringing another lock/mage

yay

so i can play what i want now? instead of a shaman that's capable of bursting 200k hps and cheesing fight mechanics?

[Raiju]

Bollocks, my trinkets reliably proc very shortly after pull even chaining after trash etc.

I'm happy that on LIVE where the changes aren't in place you get the reliable trinket proc, like everyone does.

If the first RPPM change stays to 5.4 the only thing you can rely on is it proccing roughly a minute from the pull (but when were RPPM's ever reliable?). Most of the time it won't be up for opening burst.

[Deleted]

Moar nerfs.

Glyph of Healing Storm Each application of Maelstrom Weapon also increases your direct healing done by 20%. Major Glyph.
Healing Storm Each application of Maelstrom Weapon also increases your direct healing done by 20%. Major Glyph. Instant

And they reverted the HR 25 man buff and gave another +100% restoration only.

Yeah take that bastards!

And nerf EB for enhancement which already is the weakest talent. So what?

[Deleted]

Yeah the EB nerf is a direct effect from the new 4pc PvP bonus... 25% extra crit and +30% extra damage on Elemental Blast at instant speed + back to back Stormblasts...

Anyway I found a hilarious tweet.

https://twitter.com/Crackberg/status/362946199868801027

[Deleted]

Yeah the EB nerf is a direct effect from the new 4pc PvP bonus... 25% extra crit and +30% extra damage on Elemental Blast at instant speed + back to back Stormblasts...

Anyway I found a hilarious tweet.

https://twitter.com/Crackberg/status/362946199868801027

There always were ways to fix this. Make EB reset CD at 5 stacks MSV or reduce cd by 6 sec or remove CD entirely for enhancement wouldn't affect elemental and EB would be easier to use and get closer to PE and UF. It also wouldn't increase the burst itself. In that case you could remove the agi procc perhaps.

[Embermoon]

Looks like a new update on RPPM changes:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...haste-scaling/

I can't say that I'm surprised.

And then, this:

Lore is the change in post #256 happening concurrently with the change to essentially prevent procs on boss pulls?

Because while I'm glad to see haste being so ridiculous, I still hate the idea that 2 minute CDs could have to be held for 90 seconds to match up with procs.

We're still planning on making that change as well, yes.

However, we recognize that not everyone likes the RPPM gameplay, and are going to greater lengths to provide alternative options in Siege of Orgrimmar. In addition to RPPM-based trinkets, there will be trinkets that use the older internal cooldown (ICD) method, as well as a few on-use trinkets if you'd prefer to have an even greater degree of control over when your trinkets are active. There's even a couple trinkets with completely passive effects.

Translation: We like RPPM, and we're keeping it. If you don't like it, we'll toss you some ICD trinkets to use, instead.

That's great, but what about weapon enchants? What about legendary meta gem? What about future iterations of these items?

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Imo enhance needs a thought out revamp. The way it's played now is not innovative or exciting.

IMO, Enhance is the bomb-diggity. I really disagree that it needs any major revamp.

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Shaman is not the class for you if you want attention from the devs...

We tend to get ignored alot, so much that most of the shaman community has just been so demoralized we don't even complain anymore. The only thing that I'm excited about for 5.4 is some cool new glyphs (only a year or so behind everyone elses cool/fun glyphs). It's as unoriginal said, enhance needs an overhaul more than anyone, but at the same time I wouldn't really trust blizz to handle something like that, I'm sure they'd find some way to make us suck again.

While it looks like we didn't get touched too much we got a few nerfs, like Conductivity. I use that in pvp, but I won't be taking it in 5.4 because I never stay in one point longer than the duration of HR already. Luckily Rushing Streams looks like something I can make use of and HTT is baseline, even though it's fairly weak.

The other nice thing is the 4 set enhance pvp set will make FT apply a slow for 3 sec, so I guess that means I can take FB out of my imbue swap macro. And who knows, with everyone else getting nerfed pretty hard, maybe we'll just do better comparatively.

I really disagree, at least from a PvE perspective. I've seen the devs make huge changes for us, over the years. Are you speaking from a purely PvP perspective? If not, what issues do you have with Enhance's design, in PvE?

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Seems unlikely, since even our worst secondary stat (crit) is over 50% of agi's value in current BiS gear setups.

Any idea if that's specifically due to crit's interaction with flurry? i.e., more flurried hits = more RPPM procs = 2xCrit > 1xAgi?

[Rangar]

I'm gutted honestly. I've enjoyed being a great dpser for the first time as a Shaman and I really have no faith in the devs to restore balance back to us, leaving us in the bottom fifth of dps again. Ugh.

[Embermoon]

I don't like the idea that a pet does dobule my damage while is out, so i hope we will go back to UF.

Eh? Are you talking about Live, or PTR?

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I'm gutted honestly. I've enjoyed being a great dpser for the first time as a Shaman and I really have no faith in the devs to restore balance back to us, leaving us in the bottom fifth of dps again. Ugh.

Read the link I posted. They're talking about making further adjustments, to compensate:

If both the rate and effect of a proc scale with haste, we're going to remove the haste scaling from its proc rate. In these cases, we'll compensate for an expected amount of haste by increasing the base proc rate. For any procs whose effect does not scale with haste, their proc rate will continue to scale with haste as before. However, we're also revisiting the proc rate tuning on all existing procs that were made overbudget due to the addition of Unlucky Streak Prevention (which ends up increasing effective proc rate by 9%). These changes should bring RPPM procs back to being on-budget and tied with traditional ICD procs in value.

This will obviously have a noticeable effect on most players performance; don't panic. We're going to be adjusting damage/healing/tanking performance with these changes in mind.

These RPPM changes should make it to PTR soon, and you'll be able to find the exact changes to each such effect there. We now show RPPM proc rates in the tooltip of the effect, which should make it easy to find.

[Rangar]

Eh? Are you talking about Live, or PTR?

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Read the link I posted. They're talking about making further adjustments, to compensate:

I have little to no faith in Blizzard keeping us competitive, especially with relation to other melee dps. We are already getting our utility nerfed, now our damage is getting nerfed too. It's a bit much all at once.

The thing is that Enh shamans scaled really well from haste, and now our secondary stats will be slashed in order to compensate for these changes.

[Embermoon]

I have little to no faith in Blizzard keeping us competitive, especially with relation to other melee dps. We are already getting our utility nerfed, now our damage is getting nerfed too. It's a bit much all at once.

The thing is that Enh shamans scaled really well from haste, and now our secondary stats will be slashed in order to compensate for these changes.

What utility? It sounds like you're calling enhancement's ability to do more healing, with one spell (healing rain), when in a stacked-up situation, than an equally-geared resto shaman "utility." Because that's all that that particular change is going to do. But keep in mind that we're still going to have HTT as a baseline ability, in addition to being able to pop AG if needed, for burst healing. That change to the healing storm glyph may also make the glyph of chaining an actual viable option for us, on spread fights. From a design perspective, we're actually getting more utility.

Our HR shouldn't out-heal an equally-geared resto shaman's HR. Period.

Where are you getting the idea that our secondary stats (<-- plural) are getting slashed? The only issue I'm seeing, is that haste will be relatively devalued, but Lore *just said* they'll be adjusting damage/healing/tanking performance, with the RPPM change, in mind.

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frankly there's no reason to take an enh now vs gearing up a hunter and bringing another lock/mage

Wow, how many times have we heard this, over the years, yet the spec continues to be viable, especially in the hands of good players?

[Raiju]

Wow, how many times have we heard this, over the years, yet the spec continues to be viable, especially in the hands of good players?

Just because doing 25% less damage is ok to some of us doesn't mean the damage gap isn't ridiculous. (not right now but we've seen 15-20% a few times)

[Embermoon]

Just because doing 25% less damage is ok to some of us doesn't mean the damage gap isn't ridiculous. (not right now but we've seen 15-20% a few times)

a) Who is okay with a 25% damage gap? I'm certainly not.

b) When Lore says "we're working on it," then why wouldn't we all take a breather, and wait and see what they come up with?

[Raiju]

a) Who is okay with a 25% damage gap? I'm certainly not.

b) When Lore says "we're working on it," then why wouldn't we all take a breather, and wait and see what they come up with?

We've had 15-20% damage gaps on and off since bring the player not the class. do you take back your comment i previously quoted then?

I also hate the "lets wait for more changes" mentality that lets nothing get done. Firstly (and has happened too often in previous patches), we are simply discussing the situation right now, in a thread dedicated for that purpose. Almost everyone understands PTR is PTR, but we always need to be aware that this may be the last change we get. We need to not only discuss implications, but also be giving our input for blizzard.

With how much I've worked alongside customer service recently, I'm only just realizing how valuable whiners are for finding possible oversights, because by virtue of their impatience they address the issue faster than the patient constructive types who inform after the transaction has occured.

[Embermoon]

We've had 15-20% damage gaps on and off since bring the player not the class. do you take back your comment i previously quoted then?

Perhaps you can elaborate on where you think I contradicted myself. While you're at it, please elaborate on this 15% to 20% gap you're referring to. Specifically, when was/were it, and are you referring to top parses only, or to all logs, at all raid difficulty levels? While I agree that even a 15% damage gap would be ridiculous, I think you wouldn't complain overmuch, if that gap were in our favor. Hell, I wouldn't.

I also hate the "lets wait for more changes" mentality that lets nothing get done. Firstly (and has happened too often in previous patches), we are simply discussing the situation right now, in a thread dedicated for that purpose. Almost everyone understands PTR is PTR, but we always need to be aware that this may be the last change we get. We need to not only discuss implications, but also be giving our input for blizzard.

With how much I've worked alongside customer service recently, I'm only just realizing how valuable whiners are for finding possible oversights, because by virtue of their impatience they address the issue faster than the patient constructive types who inform after the transaction has occured.

Understandable. We apparently look at problems, differently. On my end, I hate the "let's hammer the fix-it guys for their change, when they aren't even done making the change" mentality. I completely respect your position on giving good feedback to the devs, so that we don't get lost in the shuffle, and agree with it, in general.

In this specific case, however, I think some folks are jumping the gun. Here's essentially why:

- Lore announces that the current design of RPPM has led to a problem. That problem needs to be fixed.
- Lore announces changes to RPPM trinkets, with the caveat that the devs know this will impact dps performance.
- Lore announces that the devs will tune dps, to compensate.

If the blue posts had stopped at the 2nd step above, then I'd be right with you, on wanting to point out their possible oversight, to them. But they didn't. They said "we know this will lower your dps - DON'T PANIC, we're making other adjustments to compensate. When you don't even know what those adjustments will be, then why do you immediately pull out a "25% dps gap" card?

I see your point with customer service, but to apply your argument to another analogy, what happens if a mechanic is working on your car, and you're standing over him, haranguing him about his process, before he's even done? You might wind up with a busted engine, as a result.

[Raiju]

I see your point with customer service, but to apply your argument to another analogy, what happens if a mechanic is working on your car, and you're standing over him, haranguing him about his process, before he's even done? You might wind up with a busted engine, as a result.

It's more like him popping around every day to say how he needs his car fixed as soon as possible. We can't physically hang over them while they work (thank god, eh), and I imagine most of the team have quite little interaction with the forums. Lore as I remember actually joined as in a community serving position, which is why he is the one there. It's like having a customer service line though in any business, you get a lot of unreasonable and impatient customers but without them you probably wouldn't spot these issues half as fast.

Also most of the thread is echoing something a lot of people have said for a longtime, RPPM just isn't working and all these bandaids are doing is highlighting that. That feedback is timeless. A lot of others are stressing how important trinket lineup has been at the start of the fight for their specific class (mostly warlocks), which I see also as viable feedback. If you would give warlocks and priests the same compensation, warlocks would probably end up a worse off as a result. That assumes warlocks and spriests were balanced to begin with though XDDDD