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  1. #1

    So that's why UH is so much better than frost...

    Apparently with this new thing that display RPPM on the item now on PTR it's clear that Rune Regen affects RPPM so UH gets 20% more than frost by default AND whenever RC proc is up it doubles the RPPM of the trinkets since it increases rune regen by 100%.

    I was shocked when i saw this

    Feather PPM for frost with BT = 0.72PPM
    Feather PPM for UH with RC = 1.74PPM

    Talisman of Rage PPM for frost with BT= 3.86PPM
    Talisman of Rage PPM for UH with RC = 9.30PPM

    LOOOOOOOOOOL

    And BTW this dk was reforged and gemmed for mastery so the PPM difference is even larger when you put the normal UH reforges.
    Last edited by Khain; 2013-07-27 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #2
    My dear lord if this has actually been the case for the entirety of RPPM's existence... Been playing with BT since the release of 5.2.

  3. #3
    Unholy with BT?

  4. #4
    Currently investigating on it with logs. This actually makes a lot of sense although that seems too simple to be true.

    For reference, the RPPM tooltips on PTR are also affected by Improved Blood Presence (as blood spec) and UHP.

    This could also just be a tooltip bug (RPPM tooltip using the wrong value of haste instead of the one used in the real calculation) or just a PTR bug, since afterall weird things happen on PTR (right now, our current 2pc spawns two trolls instead of 1 for whatever reason.). But I'm inclined to believe this might be completely accurate.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Currently investigating on it with logs. This actually makes a lot of sense although that seems too simple to be true.

    For reference, the RPPM tooltips on PTR are also affected by Improved Blood Presence (as blood spec) and UHP.

    This could also just be a tooltip bug (RPPM tooltip using the wrong value of haste instead of the one used in the real calculation) or just a PTR bug, since afterall weird things happen on PTR (right now, our current 2pc spawns two trolls instead of 1 for whatever reason.). But I'm inclined to believe this might be completely accurate.
    Improved BP/UH provdes 20% rune regeneration, RC provides 100% rune regeneration. Isn't rune regeneration affecting RPPM not just RC itself?

  6. #6
    Just by the feeling i have with the RPPM trinkets playing frost, blood and UH i can tell this is probably accurate on live, I can remember how hard was to proc talisman of rage as frost compared to UH.

  7. #7
    Also saw it and it pretty much makes sense, always wondered why the trinkets proc that rarely for frost compared to unholy and blood and especially why my dummy tests always ended up visibly higher in favor of runic corruption when i was playing around with rc vs bt.

    It also explains why most of the time my trinket procc uptime is higher than simcraft estimates.

    The only thing i'm wondering is if it is intended, because it would be a considerable nerf if would get fixed in case of a bug (although its the case kinda long for a simple bug like that).
    Also would be interested about the math with rppm trinkets and 2h frost with unholy presence, the gap gets closer with more haste anyway.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Athdeux View Post
    Improved BP/UH provdes 20% rune regeneration, RC provides 100% rune regeneration. Isn't rune regeneration affecting RPPM not just RC itself?
    Game mechanics-wise the only way to manipulate rune regen is through haste. And since RC increases rune regen it subsequently is 'haste', albeit a modified version of it that doesn't affect anything else. It seems somehow RC's 'runehaste' has mistakenly been left in the rPPM calculation.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Athdeux View Post
    Improved BP/UH provdes 20% rune regeneration, RC provides 100% rune regeneration. Isn't rune regeneration affecting RPPM not just RC itself?
    Yes, currently every rune regeneration buff affects the RPPM tooltips of items on PTR. Still doing logs in order to compare, this will probably take a while since I need to make long enough logs to remove anecdotal streaks of luck.

    (and just calling it now- if this bug turns out to be accurate, which I think it is, this bug should absolutely be fixed, and RC shouldn't give any more RPPM procs than it already does, however UHP and Improved BP should also be modified to give straight haste instead of rune regen to avoid nightmares rebalancing the specs.)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Game mechanics-wise the only way to manipulate rune regen is through haste. And since RC increases rune regen it subsequently is 'haste', albeit a modified version of it that doesn't affect anything else. It seems somehow RC's 'runehaste' has mistakenly been left in the rPPM calculation.
    Improved presences for UP/BP are also increasing the RPPM trinket on PTR as well. So presences "Rune haste" could also potentially been mistakenly left in the rPPM calculations.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Athdeux View Post
    Improved presences for UP/BP are also increasing the RPPM trinket on PTR as well. So presences "Rune haste" could also potentially been mistakenly left in the rPPM calculations.
    They're the same thing which means they both affect rPPM proc rates.

  12. #12
    Oh.
    My.
    God.
    This changes everything.
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  13. #13
    Oh yeah, that's for sure lulz.

  14. #14
    In any case Khain, I thank you most sincerely for bringing this to our attention.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Mizuisha's Avatar
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    Explains the 3-4 feather procs in a row tbh.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    In any case Khain, I thank you most sincerely for bringing this to our attention.
    You're welcome.

  17. #17
    Well. Shit.

    I guess we can look forward to a nerf over this now. :/
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  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Well. Shit.

    I guess we can look forward to a nerf over this now. :/
    I'd expect them to base it off of "haste" if/when the change occurs.

  19. #19
    Confirming that this bug effectively affects proc rates and not just the tooltips on PTR (will post logs later).

    Currently logging on live now.

  20. #20
    Not like its game breaking... dks need bugs for more dps imo
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