View Poll Results: Should Ghostcrawler be replaced as Lead Systems Designer?

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  • Yes

    526 22.73%
  • No

    1,788 77.27%
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  1. #221
    Ghostcrawler's job is the only job where you could lose 4-5mil players and still keep your job. It's quite literally insane. He needs to find something he is good at.

  2. #222
    Ghostcrawler is in charge of game balancing, and he is also the unofficial public face of the game. He is not making the majority of design decisions. Why should he be fired?

  3. #223
    I'm not even entirely sure what GC does besides communicate to the playerbase, in terms of that at least I doubt he will lose his job nor should he for aspects of the game beyond his control.

    Far, FAR too many people are deluded and think Blizzard is a single entity that shouldn't be allowed to make mistakes or change it's mind from time to time.

  4. #224
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    As we see on the newspage, he is aware of this discussion (also that 80% think he should keep his job)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  5. #225
    Bloodsail Admiral Geodew's Avatar
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    Still better approval rating than any politician.

  6. #226
    Only Jesus can make WoW grow substantially at this point. It's very slowly dying, just like most things you have loved over the years.
    I didn't really know who he was until cata, but they've never done anything I think is really stupid, so I guess I agree with him on the way WoW is taking.
    ex:
    Flat damage increase talent = boring.
    Subpar skills what has no/limited use = in the way.

    Things like that is good.
    Mother pus bucket!

  7. #227
    Bloodsail Admiral Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    MoP >> TBC.

    Yeah, I said it.
    Agreed, and it is not even close imo.

  8. #228
    High Overlord Dezminion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Ghostcrawler is in charge of game balancing, and he is also the unofficial public face of the game. He is not making the majority of design decisions. Why should he be fired?
    You are so correct there mate, I think he is doing a good job and havin one public face is a good thing aswell, but I do not envy him, he gets so much crap to his neck..

  9. #229
    Bloodsail Admiral Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    He's responsible for everything but lore and quests pretty much.
    A little less than that: "Systems design specifically is everything that is not level, story, quest or encounter design. My team handles everything from classes to mechanics to items to trade skills to achievements to UI design, and that includes the game balance."

    http://wowpedia.org/Greg_Street

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
    Ghostcrawler's job is the only job where you could lose 4-5mil players and still keep your job. It's quite literally insane. He needs to find something he is good at.
    You among bunch of other confused whiners need to understand that there's very little Greg Street actually decides which direction WoW is going. Click on the "credits" button next time in loading screen, it's Frank Pearce (Executive Producer) and Tom Chilton (Game Director) are making the big decisions.

    The way something like cash shop comes into WoW is Bobby Kotick sending email to Mike Morhaime "figure out something to make up for the lost WoW subs". Morhaime sends "gimme cash shop, more sparkleponies or whatever so that we can make more money" email to Tom Chilton. Chilton decides to add few transmog items to the store and draws up the cash shop UI with a ballpoint pen and lists few items that could be sold there. Chilton gives the drawing to the UI lead who delegates it forward to some intern. The intern whips up an UI based on the drawing, takes a screenshot and sends it to his boss who passes it up and up and up in the chain to Morhaime who stamps it and replies to Kotick's mail "added cash shop, will see how it worked out in next quarter". GC might be in the same mailing list as the UI team lead, but will not personally do shit about it since it's not his job as long as the cash shop items have no stats.

    GC's job is tweaking classes, spells, abilities and talents and all that game mechanics stuff. If warlocks get nerfed that's GC's fault but things like cash shop or the design of Dragon Soul raid map or lore isn't. He's just taken the unofficial job of scapegoat for the internet twits.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Ever since he moved to the forefront, WoW has been deteriorating instead of improving.
    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    Agreed, and it is not even close imo.
    Lol stop fooling yourself. Blizzard's probably laughing at MoP fanboys.

    OT: No obviously nobody is going to be fired if Jay Wilson didn't get fired.

  13. #233
    "I know what's best for Blizzard's business much, much better than the people at Blizzard who have more business knowledge and experience and have access to more relevant information than I do."

    - Everyone in this thread saying he should get fired.

  14. #234
    I doubt ANYBODY could stop the falling numbers in WoW.

    Too many other MMOs, WoW is what, going on 9 years now? I laugh at myself for playing this game so long. Free to play is another reason for less subscribers.

    Sometimes things just run their course. I run a decent sized level 25 alliance guild..... and we had a SMALL pop in people coming back to play when MOP hit. Within 6 weeks of MOP, those people were gone again, and many others followed. We used to have 25 - 35 different people playing during Lich King, and now we have 5 - 8 people who actually play a reasonable amount. From the few people I talked to, most of it was the tedium of running dailies for rep / gear.

    Personally, the thought of running another daily makes me want to cry.... So, I started 3 new alts and am trying to do areas and things that I have never or rarely ever done.

    So, to sum up, IMO, I don't think anybody gets fired or should be fired. WoW's time is almost at an end. Death by Natural Causes.

  15. #235
    Dreadlord
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    I like how this thread has come to Ghostcrawler's attention. I recommend the following to the professionals at Blizzard, who are clearly reading this thread:

    * Ghostcrawler is clearly responsible for all Blizzard decisions ranging from Starcraft 2 being a three-part release to their logo being red instead of blue. As penance he must cut down the tallest tree in the forest with a herring.

    * Chris Metzen needs writing lessons. Perhaps he can become so corrupted that 24 Blizzard employees cast fireballs at him while a guy in plate mail yells mean things to get his attention. I suspect he would place fire on the ground.

    * Perhaps while they're cutting trees with herrings, one of them can Google "too dumb to live trope" and ask how this applies to the remaining heroes. Thrall is the only one who hasn't yet figured out that some old god corrupts his friends every few months. (It's the Franklin Mint "Corrupt WoW" collection: one new corrupted hero comes every 6 to 8 weeks...)

    * Ulduar's hard mode triggering was a big part of what made it awesome. We don't mind if it gets recycled. Honest.

    * So was the non-linear path. In fact, the less an MMO feels like a rail rider, the more people want to play it. [I am being subtle]

    * Fix Vanish.

    * Shamans need and deserve a tank spec!!1!1!!!11!!111!1!ones!11!

    * Cataclysm armor art sucks. No really. It really sucks. Any time I look at it, I feel like an intern shellacked kimono patterns on Ulduar's leftovers. Wrong expansion, wrong country. Google "Han dynasty lamellar". My consulting fee for telling you what to Google starts at $60 an hour.

    * Everyone in "Blizzard" deserves to get fired for catering to "casuals" who want free "epics" for nothing and it's destroying "the game". By the way, if you replace the things in quotes with {Congress, welfare queens, money, the country}, you get the argument wingnuts constantly posit about the US Government. It has exactly as much truth to it, and comes from exactly the same people...the only differences being that Blizzard didn't remove all protective tarriffs on its economic interests 30 years ago, thereby guaranteeing slow economic collapse, and that the first version's proponents are 20 years younger and don't live in shacks in Montana. Yet.

    * "The best expansion was Burning Crusade", agrees everyone with 0 ToT hard mode kills and an account created in WOTLK.

    Did I miss anything?
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    Agreed, and it is not even close imo.

    Did you play BC?

  17. #237
    He won't be fired or demoted. He (very obviously) does not know what he's talking about a lot of the time & I don't agree with him sometimes but a good chunk of the sub loses are out of his (and Blizzard's) control.

    I'm sure many of Blizzard's sub loses are their own fault however. Blizzard is ridiculously slow at implementing requested features and horrible at fixing issues. They also tend to reiterate on designs and somehow make them worse in the process. Part of me thinks Blizzard is simply lazy as well. They make a lot of excuses about stuff! More than any other game developer I've ever seen.
    Last edited by xixixviixiiii; 2013-08-06 at 03:59 PM.

  18. #238
    Bloodsail Admiral Aurabolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    This kind if thread is, in my opinion, representative of just how much out of touch the online communitites of the game are with the actual community of the game itself; as well as how uninformed about the structure of companies.

    Ghostcrawler is one of the lead developers of the game, true. But he is, at best, one among several people that make the big decisions at Blizzard, if even that. He is just given an assignment most of the time, to be carried out under certain conditions, with certain resources. And his is only one part of the game which he supervises and leads; one among many parts. So what do you expect from him? If the direction of the game is decided to be towards a certain place his work is to carry out his part of the steering, nothing else.

    Has he failed partly? Oh yes. A lot actually. He has removed so much of the uniquness of classes and specialisations. Dumped down theory-crafting elements. Almost eradicated sandbox gameplay. Streamlined the #&$% out of the game, and has cut so many elements that most of the classes and specialisations feel tasteless, unexciting, routinely "okish", safe, predictable, restrained. He has substituted the excitement one should feel by playing a game with logical equality in performance, not! balance.

    He has failed to understand that most players don't give a damn about balance; they just want to have fun. And that by catering to some echo chamber-effect driven minority that hangs around forums, he has missed the vast majority of players that don't even visit sites about the game. Oh yeah: MMOC's 36k active posters are nothing compared to the game's 7 million + players, or the past 12 million. They are not even representative of the community, because they are not chosen randomly. Yet he caters to them, and their never-ending conversations about "balance," whatever that is supposed to mean.

    Even worse, he is a professional that should have long ago understood one simple thing: there can be no balance between two or more different elements. Only identical elements can be equal. So the best thing to do is strive for some semblance of equality, while keeping fun and excitement as his most important goal. But then again, even though instanced gameplay is far from what most players enjoy in the game, it's what the company is trying to promote, because it's easier to develop content for, and cheaper; and of course in instanced content you need balance for PvP, and absence of uniqueness for 10-man raiding in PvE. And so, whether he wants to or not, Ghostcrawler has been tasked to play his part is steering the game to be more accomodating towards those activities.

    Which leads to the actual reason why the game is declining so fast in subscriptions: fatigue. Not that much from the age of the game, but its content: its focus on instanced content in both PvE and PvP. Such content is desirable from high-performance players; actually the closer it is to a MOBA or a fighting game in an arena the better; but it's boring to most players of the game. Because the vast majority doesn't care about raiding or arena. They joined the game when it was an open-world role-playing game. When there was a vast world for them to play in, adventure and explore. Vanilla was the period of time that the game met its highest rise in players in percentages; and the time when, barring a small minority of ever-complaing high-performance players or their wannabe followers, most players actually enjoyed the game; they were genuinely excited about logging in and playing, as opposed to routinely logging in to do their online chores nowadays.

    That's what made the game such a raving success: its open world. Not the dungeons. If it relied on dungeons then it would have stopped at the usual 200k subscribers mark of all other similar mmorpgs; perhaps gone a bit further because of its accessiblity. But that would be it. The several-million-players success story was built on the one thing WoW did better than any mmorpg until then, or since: its tenths of zones, with their thousand of quests, its exploration, and sense of a vast world filled with immense potential. Not the grind for points and shinies that it has become now.

    And it's quite obvious really: Shenmue, Driver, Zelda, Yakuza, Fallout, Grand Theft Auto; do you know what they all have in common? Hugely successful games. With an open world theme. Most recently Skyrim, with its horrible combat and clunky animations, surpassed 10 million copies sold, in an era where piracy is huge, on PCs especially. So the actual number of people that have playeed it? Yeah, one can only imagine. 10 million + players. Which other open-world role-playing game once had such numbers? Hmm....That's the genre WoW belonged to in Vanilla, and that's the genre it has forsaken, and a major reason of why it has declined so much in popularity. Shinies instead of actual open-world content is only going to take you so far. And this seems to be the extent of the trick's longevity. Most players are just bored and tired of grinding points instead of playing a proper open-world role-playing game. So they leave.

    But that is not just Ghostcrawler's fault, if at all, it is the company's fault for deciding not to invest in the kind of content most players enjoy, but try to shoehorn almost everyone into the cheaper and faster to develop for instanced content. And these are the results.
    /thread.

    Honestly this sums up my thoughts on this poll exactly. And it's why I recently bought Guild Wars 2, which has a heavy emphasis on open world exploration. If you try to grind in the same spot you'll get bored very quickly.

    When I leveled my first toon to 70 in TBC I'd gone through 90% of the quests on Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms along the way. I loved the quests so much I went zone to zone doing all of the quests to fully experience what they had to offer. When I first got to Outland--and mind you I started playing WoW mid-expansion--things were a bit more spread out after Hellfire. I'd say I did about 45% of the quests on my way to 70. When Wrath of the Lich King went live I did 98% of the quests on Northrend excluding non-progression Dailies (I did do Argent Tournament for example but not the Grizzly Hills Dailies).

    When Cataclysm came out...whew. Due to the vocal minority, Kalimdor and EK were set up in a way that even without Heirlooms or Guild Perks you will always outlevel a zone before you finish a quest chain. The reason? Some people complained the questing experience was boring and they wanted to get to end-game content faster. The tradeoff is most folks never bother finishing quest chains in a zone before moving on. A slap the face of the Dev Teams who spent the lion's share of their resources revamping two continents in answer to the community's feedback.

    I'm not saying the revamp shouldn't have happened. I'm glad it did and I love the new quest chains. I just wish they'd cut the EXP needed to level a bit or maybe offer perks to people who see a quest chain through to the end. The new Silverpine Forest, Westfall, Stonetalon Mountains (both sides) and Eastern Plaguelands (both sides) chains for example are pretty cool. I honestly don't get the hate for the revamped continents. It made me want to go back and level new toons to experience Azeroth post-Cataclysm. I haven't even done 40% of the quests and like Northrend I actually WANT to see them all eventually.

    When MoP was announced...the vocal minority again. The hate expressed for the expansion on the day it was announced to now must have bruised alot of egos at Blizzard. I know they never will say it publicly but they should just say "Look, if you don't like our game don't play." Now I will be the first to admit Pandaria's Questing experience is only worth doing once per faction. Furthermore, I don't like being forced to do the questing experience on land with my alts just to satisfy the campers on PvP realms. It makes me feel like I'm being punished to satisfy a group of players I don't belong to.

    Pandaria's questing experience was impressive given it didn't have the strong lore background Wrath of the Lich King did. I know alot of folks would disagree with me on that and they have a right to if they want. Even so this proves to me that WoW still has plenty of gas left in the tank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    World of Warcraft has been played by so many people that it's hard to get a reliable source of new players into the game. Add to that a toxic community that expects perfection out of people who have never played and you have a recipe for decline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Only one faction receiving something completely new? Absolutely not going to happen. The QQ is so massive it will break the QQ Pillar in the Elemental Plane of QQ and unleash Kiukiuwing, the Aspect of QQs.

  19. #239
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Did you play BC?
    I did and I 100% agree with his statement.

    BC was shit IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I did and I 100% agree with his statement.

    BC was shit IMO.

    If you dislike world pvp, 5 mans, content for casuals are hard core players, professions having interesting content, pvp in general... I can see how you might believe BC sucked.

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