View Poll Results: Should Ghostcrawler be replaced as Lead Systems Designer?

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  • Yes

    524 22.67%
  • No

    1,787 77.33%
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  1. #241
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    This kind if thread is, in my opinion, representative of just how much out of touch the online communitites of the game are with the actual community of the game itself; as well as how uninformed about the structure of companies.

    Ghostcrawler is one of the lead developers of the game, true. But he is, at best, one among several people that make the big decisions at Blizzard, if even that. He is just given an assignment most of the time, to be carried out under certain conditions, with certain resources. And his is only one part of the game which he supervises and leads; one among many parts. So what do you expect from him? If the direction of the game is decided to be towards a certain place his work is to carry out his part of the steering, nothing else.

    Has he failed partly? Oh yes. A lot actually. He has removed so much of the uniquness of classes and specialisations. Dumped down theory-crafting elements. Almost eradicated sandbox gameplay. Streamlined the #&$% out of the game, and has cut so many elements that most of the classes and specialisations feel tasteless, unexciting, routinely "okish", safe, predictable, restrained. He has substituted the excitement one should feel by playing a game with logical equality in performance, not! balance.

    He has failed to understand that most players don't give a damn about balance; they just want to have fun. And that by catering to some echo chamber-effect driven minority that hangs around forums, he has missed the vast majority of players that don't even visit sites about the game. Oh yeah: MMOC's 36k active posters are nothing compared to the game's 7 million + players, or the past 12 million. They are not even representative of the community, because they are not chosen randomly. Yet he caters to them, and their never-ending conversations about "balance," whatever that is supposed to mean.

    Even worse, he is a professional that should have long ago understood one simple thing: there can be no balance between two or more different elements. Only identical elements can be equal. So the best thing to do is strive for some semblance of equality, while keeping fun and excitement as his most important goal. But then again, even though instanced gameplay is far from what most players enjoy in the game, it's what the company is trying to promote, because it's easier to develop content for, and cheaper; and of course in instanced content you need balance for PvP, and absence of uniqueness for 10-man raiding in PvE. And so, whether he wants to or not, Ghostcrawler has been tasked to play his part is steering the game to be more accomodating towards those activities.

    Which leads to the actual reason why the game is declining so fast in subscriptions: fatigue. Not that much from the age of the game, but its content: its focus on instanced content in both PvE and PvP. Such content is desirable from high-performance players; actually the closer it is to a MOBA or a fighting game in an arena the better; but it's boring to most players of the game. Because the vast majority doesn't care about raiding or arena. They joined the game when it was an open-world role-playing game. When there was a vast world for them to play in, adventure and explore. Vanilla was the period of time that the game met its highest rise in players in percentages; and the time when, barring a small minority of ever-complaing high-performance players or their wannabe followers, most players actually enjoyed the game; they were genuinely excited about logging in and playing, as opposed to routinely logging in to do their online chores nowadays.

    That's what made the game such a raving success: its open world. Not the dungeons. If it relied on dungeons then it would have stopped at the usual 200k subscribers mark of all other similar mmorpgs; perhaps gone a bit further because of its accessiblity. But that would be it. The several-million-players success story was built on the one thing WoW did better than any mmorpg until then, or since: its tenths of zones, with their thousand of quests, its exploration, and sense of a vast world filled with immense potential. Not the grind for points and shinies that it has become now.

    And it's quite obvious really: Shenmue, Driver, Zelda, Yakuza, Fallout, Grand Theft Auto; do you know what they all have in common? Hugely successful games. With an open world theme. Most recently Skyrim, with its horrible combat and clunky animations, surpassed 10 million copies sold, in an era where piracy is huge, on PCs especially. So the actual number of people that have playeed it? Yeah, one can only imagine. 10 million + players. Which other open-world role-playing game once had such numbers? Hmm....That's the genre WoW belonged to in Vanilla, and that's the genre it has forsaken, and a major reason of why it has declined so much in popularity. Shinies instead of actual open-world content is only going to take you so far. And this seems to be the extent of the trick's longevity. Most players are just bored and tired of grinding points instead of playing a proper open-world role-playing game. So they leave.
    I believe Blizzard should perhaps hire the guy above. I mean, they hired people who incorporated pokem0n to the game for heaven's sake. The guy above would be a refreshing addition to the people who implemented the Panda/Pokemon concept. I mean, it can't really go any worse than this.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  2. #242
    Ghostcrawler's the developer that World of Warcraft deserves, but not the one it needs.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  3. #243
    I think we should go back to how it was before: They don't give us any information or keep us up to date VIA Twitter, Don't let us know who the Lead Sys Dev is, and don't let us know any off the staff/dev names because we are all ungrateful for their openness.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    If you dislike world pvp, 5 mans, content for casuals are hard core players, professions having interesting content, pvp in general... I can see how you might believe BC sucked.
    They're so cute when they're so young and stupid, aren't they?
    Yo Blizzard, I’m really happy for you and Imma let you finish, but this was the best MMO of all time. OF ALL TIME.

  5. #245
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    As long as GC keeps beating down Paladins - I PERSONALLY: Will Love Him

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    If you dislike world pvp
    One of the more common whine on this forum is that flying mounts killed world PvP, flying mounts which were introduced in TBC. Which is false since it was the introduction of Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch that killed world PvP during vanilla. People just didn't give a fuck anymore about endless unbalanced corpse running without any rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    5 mans
    That were ridiculously overtuned on launch, and still year after TBC came out you weren't invited into daily heroic group playing class without CC ability. Feral druids, shadowpriests, dps shamans dps warrior etc all excluded.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    content for casuals and hard core players
    Casuals had Karazhan for a year and half, nothing more. Nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    professions having interesting content
    Perhaps the word you were looking for is "broken", not "interesting"?
    Raider in Sunwell? Reroll leatherworking or you're noob.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    pvp in general
    TBC introduced arenas which introduced the term "welfare epics". You literally lost 10 games per week and would get free epics for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I can see how you might believe BC sucked.
    I can see how you're looking at it all with nostalgia goggles.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    I can see how you're looking at it all with nostalgia goggles.
    TBC was the best expansion this game ever had. I played during vanilla as well and I think vanilla sucked. Do I have nostalgia goggles, too?
    Yo Blizzard, I’m really happy for you and Imma let you finish, but this was the best MMO of all time. OF ALL TIME.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    One of the more common whine on this forum is that flying mounts killed world PvP, flying mounts which were introduced in TBC. Which is false since it was the introduction of Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch that killed world PvP during vanilla. People just didn't give a fuck anymore about endless unbalanced corpse running without any rewards.

    That were ridiculously overtuned on launch, and still year after TBC came out you weren't invited into daily heroic group playing class without CC ability. Feral druids, shadowpriests, dps shamans dps warrior etc all excluded.



    Casuals had Karazhan for a year and half, nothing more. Nothing.



    Perhaps the word you were looking for is "broken", not "interesting"?
    Raider in Sunwell? Reroll leatherworking or you're noob.



    TBC introduced arenas which introduced the term "welfare epics". You literally lost 10 games per week and would get free epics for nothing.



    I can see how you're looking at it all with nostalgia goggles.

    World pvp still existed in BC due to things such as no instant teleports to most spots in the world, the need for questing, and important mat drops (such as at the elemental plateau).

    5 mans were considered impossible by the few that couldn't do them - generally if you were a massive server troll that had a bad reputation, or if you were just really bad at your class, you wouldn't get invited. With the exception of a place like Shattered Halls, you could get in as any type of dps if you knew what you were doing. BC had Gruul, kara, ogre council, arguably magtheridon, and ZA - MoP gets LFR, which I think even most LFR players will agree, is boring. As for professions, now they exist to give you a *slight* boost to your primary stat (or your best secondary stat) and provide nothing interesting, aside from engineering. The items actually gave you upgrades back then.... as opposed to giving you stuff that's good for the first 2 weeks of the expansion.

    And yes, TBC brought welfare epics but they did slowly improve on this, putting ratings requirements on gear and overall, arena being introduced itself was a massive deal. Compared to now, you can get elite gear that doesn't have a ratings requirement, and blizz doing very little to stop botters and wintraders (which have always existed, but from my experience, were much much more rare back then, now you see wintraders in trade chat, advertising for it lol).

    I find it amazing any time someone says "blizz can do better" fan boys and blizz agologists will always bring up the nostalgia thing.

  9. #249
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    I believe Blizzard should perhaps hire the guy above. I mean, they hired people who incorporated pokem0n to the game for heaven's sake. The guy above would be a refreshing addition to the people who implemented the Panda/Pokemon concept. I mean, it can't really go any worse than this.
    And this guy is an example of why Blizzard shouldn't listen to the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  10. #250
    Pandaren Monk Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darxide View Post
    TBC was the best expansion this game ever had. I played during vanilla as well and I think vanilla sucked. Do I have nostalgia goggles, too?
    While TBC was a big improvement over Vanilla it wasn't exactly perfect. World PvP pretty much died by the end of it, PvP rankings were take away, raiding (other than Kara) was pretty much hardcore only. There was a crapton of gating for everything, you needed keys for heroics, then attunement keys for raids which you could only get by beating the prior raids. Not to mention that if you raided you where forced to have certain professions. At least in vanilla you could have fun throughout the entire leveling experience because most players weren't 60 yet and the ones that where 60 where most likely not geared at all.

    Wrath was the best of WoW in my opinion, it had casual content, hardcore content, good lore development, proper exploration (10 level gap instead of 5), great soundtrack and an excellent theme (defeating a fallen prince, who is now the ruler of the dead in a frozen wasteland).

  11. #251
    This is the dumbest kind of thread.

  12. #252
    Herald of the Titans Syridian's Avatar
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    The best part of this thread was when GC brought it up, highlighting just how stupid it really is.

  13. #253
    I don't mind the guy, but when he answers peoples questions.. he can be a bit of a dick sometimes. I'd assume it's because he's answering the same kind of question over and over and quickly becomes agitated as most of us would.

    Some of what he says makes a lot of sense, other times doesn't make much sense at all. He contradicts himself on his stances in the game, but at least there is a face to communicate with instead of "blizzard thinks that blah blah blah".

    They won't fire him though, people have said in the thread there should be someone fresh. But I think he probably already has "fresh" peoples opinions on what should be going on all the time. He's a figure head.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    While TBC was a big improvement over Vanilla it wasn't exactly perfect. World PvP pretty much died by the end of it, PvP rankings were take away, raiding (other than Kara) was pretty much hardcore only. There was a crapton of gating for everything, you needed keys for heroics, then attunement keys for raids which you could only get by beating the prior raids. Not to mention that if you raided you where forced to have certain professions. At least in vanilla you could have fun throughout the entire leveling experience because most players weren't 60 yet and the ones that where 60 where most likely not geared at all.

    Wrath was the best of WoW in my opinion, it had casual content, hardcore content, good lore development, proper exploration (10 level gap instead of 5), great soundtrack and an excellent theme (defeating a fallen prince, who is now the ruler of the dead in a frozen wasteland).

    I think the gating was kind of a good thing. If you hit 90 today, chances are you can see every fight within 2 weeks (some of my buddies can do it in one)... I'm pretty sure for a lot of casual guys, it kinda takes away from the incentive to play further as you just already saw everything. The heroic attunements IMO were a good thing, as generally it meant the people you were teaming up with had an idea of the place ahead of time. Nowadays you don't need that for heroics, but only because they are so easy that a lot of classes can solo them.

    I thought wrath made things too simplistic, I remember seeing guys that were awful that had lich king kills and the only challenges really were with heroic content. Ditto with places like Naxx, although Wotlk did have Ulduar, which I think in many ways makes up for ICC and Naxx. But anyways, you could go into a 5 man heroic and pull the entire room, including the boss, and aoe it down easily. Questing once you were at 80 was pointless as you could get way better upgrades with way less effort from pugs and LFD.... speaking of which, the game introduced LFD, which slowly killed off the social aspect of the game and lead to many more dungeons that lasted 10 minutes.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by darxide View Post
    TBC was the best expansion this game ever had. I played during vanilla as well and I think vanilla sucked. Do I have nostalgia goggles, too?
    I agree that vanilla sucked, but so did TBC for most parts. The fact is the game has gotten better with every expansion, but problem is people are whining over the lost community. Or to be precise, they're whining over all former friends and guildmates who have since stopped playing. It has got very little to do with the actual quality of WoW but their subjective view of the community around them.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    World pvp still existed in BC due to things such as no instant teleports to most spots in the world, the need for questing, and important mat drops (such as at the elemental plateau).
    Not on low or medium pop realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    5 mans were considered impossible by the few that couldn't do them - generally if you were a massive server troll that had a bad reputation, or if you were just really bad at your class, you wouldn't get invited. With the exception of a place like Shattered Halls, you could get in as any type of dps if you knew what you were doing.
    Wrong. TBC trade channel was "lf3m daily heroic: tank, healer and dps (no cc=no inv)". You really did not get pugs as non-CC dps classes. Rogues that didn't spec into improved sap were frequently kicked out of the group for being noobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    The items actually gave you upgrades back then.... as opposed to giving you stuff that's good for the first 2 weeks of the expansion.
    Those upgrades shouldn't last for multiple tiers, that's just retarded. I had to change profession to tailoring on my shadowpriest because of Frozen Shadowweave set which was BiS for whole two tiers. That's just ridiculous devaluing of all raid drops and forcing people into professions they don't give a fuck about.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I find it amazing any time someone says "blizz can do better" fan boys and blizz agologists will always bring up the nostalgia thing.
    There are things that could be better (like for example merging realms to fix the broken economy), but what you listed is pure nostalgia.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Nope, I don't think he'll be fired. WoW's drop in subscription numbers is due to a dozen different factors unrelated to his job, and the game's systems (which ol' Greg is responsible for) have improved massively since the ridiculous imbalancefest of Vanilla and Burning Crusade. Shamans can DPS, Paladins and Druids can Tank, Hunters don't just cast Steady Shot until they go blue in the face, talents are actually interesting now. No reason to kick him out.
    This. Failing sub numbers have infinitely more sources of influence than just GCs decision making.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    This kind if thread is, in my opinion, representative of just how much out of touch the online communitites of the game are with the actual community of the game itself; as well as how uninformed about the structure of companies.

    Ghostcrawler is one of the lead developers of the game, true. But he is, at best, one among several people that make the big decisions at Blizzard, if even that. He is just given an assignment most of the time, to be carried out under certain conditions, with certain resources. And his is only one part of the game which he supervises and leads; one among many parts. So what do you expect from him? If the direction of the game is decided to be towards a certain place his work is to carry out his part of the steering, nothing else.

    Has he failed partly? Oh yes. A lot actually. He has removed so much of the uniquness of classes and specialisations. Dumped down theory-crafting elements. Almost eradicated sandbox gameplay. Streamlined the #&$% out of the game, and has cut so many elements that most of the classes and specialisations feel tasteless, unexciting, routinely "okish", safe, predictable, restrained. He has substituted the excitement one should feel by playing a game with logical equality in performance, not! balance.

    He has failed to understand that most players don't give a damn about balance; they just want to have fun. And that by catering to some echo chamber-effect driven minority that hangs around forums, he has missed the vast majority of players that don't even visit sites about the game. Oh yeah: MMOC's 36k active posters are nothing compared to the game's 7 million + players, or the past 12 million. They are not even representative of the community, because they are not chosen randomly. Yet he caters to them, and their never-ending conversations about "balance," whatever that is supposed to mean.

    Even worse, he is a professional that should have long ago understood one simple thing: there can be no balance between two or more different elements. Only identical elements can be equal. So the best thing to do is strive for some semblance of equality, while keeping fun and excitement as his most important goal. But then again, even though instanced gameplay is far from what most players enjoy in the game, it's what the company is trying to promote, because it's easier to develop content for, and cheaper; and of course in instanced content you need balance for PvP, and absence of uniqueness for 10-man raiding in PvE. And so, whether he wants to or not, Ghostcrawler has been tasked to play his part is steering the game to be more accomodating towards those activities.

    Which leads to the actual reason why the game is declining so fast in subscriptions: fatigue. Not that much from the age of the game, but its content: its focus on instanced content in both PvE and PvP. Such content is desirable from high-performance players; actually the closer it is to a MOBA or a fighting game in an arena the better; but it's boring to most players of the game. Because the vast majority doesn't care about raiding or arena. They joined the game when it was an open-world role-playing game. When there was a vast world for them to play in, adventure and explore. Vanilla was the period of time that the game met its highest rise in players in percentages; and the time when, barring a small minority of ever-complaing high-performance players or their wannabe followers, most players actually enjoyed the game; they were genuinely excited about logging in and playing, as opposed to routinely logging in to do their online chores nowadays.

    That's what made the game such a raving success: its open world. Not the dungeons. If it relied on dungeons then it would have stopped at the usual 200k subscribers mark of all other similar mmorpgs; perhaps gone a bit further because of its accessiblity. But that would be it. The several-million-players success story was built on the one thing WoW did better than any mmorpg until then, or since: its tenths of zones, with their thousand of quests, its exploration, and sense of a vast world filled with immense potential. Not the grind for points and shinies that it has become now.

    And it's quite obvious really: Shenmue, Driver, Zelda, Yakuza, Fallout, Grand Theft Auto; do you know what they all have in common? Hugely successful games. With an open world theme. Most recently Skyrim, with its horrible combat and clunky animations, surpassed 10 million copies sold, in an era where piracy is huge, on PCs especially. So the actual number of people that have playeed it? Yeah, one can only imagine. 10 million + players. Which other open-world role-playing game once had such numbers? Hmm....That's the genre WoW belonged to in Vanilla, and that's the genre it has forsaken, and a major reason of why it has declined so much in popularity. Shinies instead of actual open-world content is only going to take you so far. And this seems to be the extent of the trick's longevity. Most players are just bored and tired of grinding points instead of playing a proper open-world role-playing game. So they leave.

    But that is not just Ghostcrawler's fault, if at all, it is the company's fault for deciding not to invest in the kind of content most players enjoy, but try to shoehorn almost everyone into the cheaper and faster to develop for instanced content. And these are the results.
    Holy shit, look at what it is. An opinion being presented as solid fact.

    Please, tell me how you manage to be such a self important fool that you would take presumptions and try to shove them off as empirical data and evidence? Please, I would like to know the secrets so I can also behave in such a manner in the future.

  18. #258
    Dreadlord
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    He might be, he does stand to answer for everything his team does. The game is the way it is under his authority, of course its not solely his fault, but that doesnt mean someone else wouldnt be able to do a better job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoonalol View Post
    wat are the 2 gob mounts.. i only know the trike

  19. #259
    I wish they did, the guy has no clue on what he is doing.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    I agree that vanilla sucked, but so did TBC for most parts. The fact is the game has gotten better with every expansion, but problem is people are whining over the lost community. Or to be precise, they're whining over all former friends and guildmates who have since stopped playing. It has got very little to do with the actual quality of WoW but their subjective view of the community around them.



    Not on low or medium pop realm.



    Wrong. TBC trade channel was "lf3m daily heroic: tank, healer and dps (no cc=no inv)". You really did not get pugs as non-CC dps classes. Rogues that didn't spec into improved sap were frequently kicked out of the group for being noobs.



    Those upgrades shouldn't last for multiple tiers, that's just retarded. I had to change profession to tailoring on my shadowpriest because of Frozen Shadowweave set which was BiS for whole two tiers. That's just ridiculous devaluing of all raid drops and forcing people into professions they don't give a fuck about.



    There are things that could be better (like for example merging realms to fix the broken economy), but what you listed is pure nostalgia.

    Yes, the low pop and medium pop realms had nothing to do with the expansion itself though. I will admit, blizz is making *some* improvements here but a lot more can be done, CRZ is a step in the right direction and I see that they are now "linking" realms.... gives hope lol. If you had trouble getting into a 5 man, just join a guild, problem solved... same thing with raiding. And I don't remember any groups that looked for 3 people that could CC, as opposed to one or 2... with the exception of Shattered Halls and Magister's terrace.... and also, you could always start a group yourself. I think people over think this one, honestly if you made buddies with a few tanks or heals and built a reputation for yourself, you'd have more people asking you to run stuff then you could handle.



    As for professions, I think it's much more interesting when they actually give items that you would want to use instead of stuff that is worse than what you already have equipped. Does it need to be strong over multiple tiers? No, but the current system is much worse as crafters have very little stuff that is of value to craft after the first month of the expansion. You level up something like tailoring to 600..... and when you get there, you realize you don't need any of the stuff you can make. How interesting is that?



    As for the the nostalgia thing, I find there's a good portion of players that have some sort of past expansion contrition, where they think nobody ever raided, nobody did 5 mans, everyone was bored in the game and nobody had fun. For me though it's one of those things where I'm like "dude were we playing the same game?!"

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