View Poll Results: Should Ghostcrawler be replaced as Lead Systems Designer?

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  • Yes

    526 22.73%
  • No

    1,788 77.27%
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  1. #421
    Stood in the Fire Envojus's Avatar
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    Why don't people realize he is not at fault? Do people know how Businesses work?

    Look. Greg Street is the lead system designer. Yep. And that's it. You know who you could blame? Yourselves. Every single one of you. Why? Just because he is the Lead System Designer, doesn't mean he has a vision, and turns the game into how he sees fit. That's not his Job. His job? The Marketing department does it's research, gives a shit ton of data and says:

    "Look, the market demands this. The Stockholders demand this. We think if we do something about it, we can increase our profits/build positive PR/etc etc. How can we change the game to appeal to this? Find a way and implement it so we can achieve these results!"

  2. #422
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    I hope he does. I believe that he lacks vision for good game design. His intuition is shallow, and he can't see deep into problems or solutions.
    Last edited by sandmoth12; 2013-08-15 at 02:23 AM.

  3. #423
    He won't, you can tell from how cocky he is, I voted yes, but he won't. Never liked him, I hope nobodys at his bed when he dies.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    The Cata healing revamp was the BEST thing that ever happened to healing since Vanilla. It took a role which in Wrath had become mindless Big Heal button mashing with no consideration for mana *at all*, and turned it into a game where you actually needed to think and strategize to succeed.

    And there were lots of interesting mechanics for managing mana. Your comments say a lot more about your ability than the design changes, which in hindsight were incredibly good.
    I enjoyed the downranking/5SR healing style. BC was my favorite time in the game for healing, but I would say even Wrath was much better than Cata as a holy priest, several of my spells got equal use and at least it was fast paced instead of boring. Heroic 25m healing in Cata was pretty much spam AOE heals, hit a cooldown every x minutes for mana back, and hope the boss dies in time. The cheap heals were utterly useless with that style of damage since heals in general healed much less of the health pool compared to any other time in the game. I mean, what mana management? Cast a cheaper heal? Good luck raid healing with that in most hard mode fights. Use a mana cooldown? Unless a low damage period in the fight was coming and the mana would sit there unused, just press the CD button as soon as it's up if you'll get the full benefit. BC was so much more involved.
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2013-08-15 at 03:45 AM.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    So let me get this straight... You whined for buffs and didn't get any, and because of that GC deserves to be fired?

    That's a nice mature way to look at it.
    No, way to assume though. I've also already talked about this in the thread.

    A lot of people who defend GC don't actually know what he says/what happens in the PTR/beta forums, just like many people who do not like him blame him for things he has no control of. I blame him for the things he is responsible for.

    Balance is a two way street--things are either overtuned or undertuned, but he's repeated enough mistakes and ignored player feedback along with saying some things that are just generally ignorant to game mechanics that he really should be held responsible for his own actions and the state of game balance. People rightly say that things have been a lot worse in the game balance wise, but they can also be a lot better, which means better testing and listening to player feedback.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    A lot of people who defend GC don't actually know what he says/what happens in the PTR/beta forums, just like many people who do not like him blame him for things he has no control of. I blame him for the things he is responsible for.

    Balance is a two way street--things are either overtuned or undertuned, but he's repeated enough mistakes and ignored player feedback along with saying some things that are just generally ignorant to game mechanics that he really should be held responsible for his own actions and the state of game balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    For me it was the whole "you guys are just mad because we made healing harder" during Cata beta/live. Um. No. You just made healing "harder" in a stupid way (making heals very small and expensive while having raid bosses smack the raid with unavoidable AOE without giving any interesting mechanics for managing mana).
    Healing was more boring before Cata revamps, so GC was right on that. At least for priest and shaman classes that I have experience of. Simply disagreeing with him isn't valid reason for anybody to get fired.
    Last edited by vesseblah; 2013-08-15 at 06:39 AM.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Jay Wilson didn't have misfortune, that implies bad luck. Jay Wilson acted like a child and made inappropriate statements about someone in a public venue.
    And he didn't even get fired or disciplined in any way.
    To be brutally honest, the public eye was already on him waiting to catch on a slip up. If not for that, we never would have known it happened. It really was an unfortunate matter. He was talking to co-workers off-the-record. It wasn't like he was announcing this to the public or making tweets about it. The same kind of pressure is on GC and Dustin Browder, who the public is keenly watching at all times.

    GC on the other hand hasn't really done anything wrong. Sure the game seems to be making bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, but that isn't on GC. It is a team effort and we only see a teeny tiny fraction of the process. GC just gets a lot of hate because his comments are a little too honest for some people to handle.
    You don't know any of the devs or how they act outside the public eye, and the only reason you have any better image of him is because he hasn't slipped up. The good thing is that he probably knows better and is more careful about what he does or says.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstone View Post
    I've seen GC use that very tactic, i.e. accusing players who question the direction of the game of having a selfish view. Considering the unequivocal decline of World of Warcraft I don't think it's fair to dismiss dissenting voices on the basis that they're jerks who simply want their own way.
    Really, the game is almost 10 years old. Ever stopped to think about how much worse the decline could have been without people like him?

    Simply pointing to sub numbers in a vacuum without considering the other factors surrounding it is stupidly shortsighted.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Really, the game is almost 10 years old. Ever stopped to think about how much worse the decline could have been without people like him?
    Addressed that in an earlier post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstone View Post
    The main argument in defense of GC is that he isn't responsible for the loss of subs? If the environment you do business in changes and your product becomes less attractive because of said changes, then to continue to be successful you need to modify your product to remain relevant. It's conjecture, but different decisions could have seen WoW continue to grow rather than decline. Sometimes the odds are against you, and you can still triumph. Fanboys act as if GC is defending the ALAMO.

    1. If Cata hadn't forced out players with less time/skill with overtuned heroics wouldn't we be in a different world right now?
    2. If MoP hadn't gated everything behind rep and taken away catch up gear wouldn't we be in a different world right now?
    3. If WoW's aging had been addressed with a migration to WoW2 wouldn't we be in a different world right now?

    People in positions of influence are supposed to get there on merit and stay there on merit, and when things stop working it's time to ~PACK IT UP~. It's nothing personal, it's just how life is. You cannot excuse those in control of a declining product/service/whatever. There's no excuse that you can make for repeated failures in business. You lose your job.
    Last edited by Toadstone; 2013-08-15 at 10:04 PM. Reason: added in post quote

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstone View Post
    Fanboys act as if GC is defending the ALAMO.
    And haters act as if the consequences of GC's actions are as dire to players as losing the ALAMO was. This is only a game, and GC is only human. If you fire someone every time they make a mistake you'll always have someone who has never made mistakes to learn from.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstone View Post
    Addressed that in an earlier post.
    can i just make sure what im reading is correct- you think that if WoW doesn't continually rise in subs the person in charge is failing? can you design a game for me where eventually in 2100 i hit 15.3 billion subs? it's clear you have no clue what you're talking about- WoW is still incredibly relevant or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    He won't, you can tell from how cocky he is, I voted yes, but he won't. Never liked him, I hope nobodys at his bed when he dies.

    I feel the same about you and others like you; thankfully I don't think you guys will have any problems dying alone.

  13. #433
    this man should be fired, he has done poor on poor decision regarding pvp balance. First of all he scrapped the at the time current talent system 6 months before release. (can not recall if it was cata or mop). But the entire system was remodelled. And at that time he was spending ALOT OF TIME on forums "defending" himself. When he was notioned by blizzard to spend more time on wow, he scrapped the entire talent model VERY shortly after... Connection? mby, mby not.
    I dont like him, but he might not be responsible for the changes made. Imo Activision is responsible for the current state of wow.
    Wow is boring, dumbed down, catered to casual gameplay.
    Nothing is intelligent or rewarding in this game anymore.
    Thats my 2 cents on it, im sure alot disagree. But i dont care rly ^^
    (u never wondered why so many r1 / endgame arena players quit in/b4 cata?...
    Imho cata and mop is very very similiar skill-wise.

    ps. Probably weird to use the word skill in conjunction with mop / cata
    HOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHOHOOHOHOHO

    Last edit, didnt they remove the original development team sometime during wotlk? To Titan... Leaving only like GC left (as main developers)
    Last edited by Johnkie; 2013-08-15 at 10:57 PM.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    And haters act as if the consequences of GC's actions are as dire to players as losing the ALAMO was. This is only a game, and GC is only human. If you fire someone every time they make a mistake you'll always have someone who has never made mistakes to learn from.
    That's not how business works, you don't pat them on the back and say "oh well, you'll get it right next time" after they have lost a company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.

    I do agree with people who say that GC isn't at fault for a variety of things he is blamed for. It's hard to pinpoint who is making the bad decisions, but it is more than just one person.

  15. #435
    Epic! g01851's Avatar
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    This is a really silly thread. Do people actually think HE DOES ALL THIS BY HIMSELF? No... he's just the 'front' man who we all see, I doubt he makes any decisions purely himself.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    That's not how business works, you don't pat them on the back and say "oh well, you'll get it right next time" after they have lost a company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.

    I do agree with people who say that GC isn't at fault for a variety of things he is blamed for. It's hard to pinpoint who is making the bad decisions, but it is more than just one person.
    Cept losing players isn't necessarily a developer's fault. You can't stop progress and competition, and the blame isn't always the creator's fault, especially if the game is being made better than it was in the past.

    How can you stop players migrating to MMO's? How do you stop people from playing Free-to-play games while still maintaining a 7+ million playerbase? No other video game company has dealt with situations involving huge numbers like these, using a business model that has worked in favour of WoW and caused the downfall of the competition. Who are you going to get to replace these people?

  17. #437
    I could see them moving him to another project. Fired? nah.

    Slaying 8bit dragons with 6 pixel long swords since 1987.
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  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    That's not how business works, you don't pat them on the back and say "oh well, you'll get it right next time" after they have lost a company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.
    Which only reinforces the fact that GC is not responsible for losing hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. If Blizzard's executives honestly thought he was at fault for that, he would be gone. If anyone were to get blame, it's Blizzard's marketing department for not correctly interpreting future trends. However, the MMO genre in general is on the decline, so I'm not sure there was anything marketing could have done, short of setting a plan to end-of-life WoW and coming up with the next big thing. Blizzard was known for the Warcraft and Starcraft RTS games as well as for Diablo long before WoW was even in the picture. However, 7.7 million subscribers is nothing to sneeze at. WoW is still making money hand over fist. If SWTOR had managed to snag 8 million subscribers then maybe we could say that Blizzard dropped the WoW ball. Seeing as how at last count Aion was the number 2 MMO, clocking in at a distant 2 million subscribers, I'd call the fact that WoW is still on top after 10 years a success.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnkie View Post
    When he was notioned by blizzard to spend more time on wow, he scrapped the entire talent model VERY shortly after... Connection? mby, mby not.
    The talent system was great back in the days when players would experiment on their own to come up with decent builds. However, we made it obsolete. We created simulators to automatically determine which talents boosted damage the most. Once we had that set of talents down we built more simulators to determine the optimal skill order. Then we took it even further and built sites that publicized the results of these simulations in an easily digestible format. Then, many of those players who were too lazy to come up with their own builds started giving players with original builds a hard time, calling them names like "noobs" and "bads" because they actually had the gall to experiment on their own. But that's not how the min-maxers saw it: those players weren't having fun with the game by experimenting with talents; they were slowing down everyone's speed runs (is there any other kind of run?).

    That's why the talent system had to go. It was no longer a source of fun. It was a source of anguish for the min-maxers who were frustrated about having to play with original players, and it was frustrating for the original players who caught no end of flack for daring to deviate from the established optimum. So don't blame GC for that. If you want to blame anyone, blame the community at large for forgetting that WoW is a game and that games are supposed to be fun. Blame all those speed runners who can't think of anything but getting as much gear as they can as quickly as possible. Blame all those raiders who insist that content be tuned to a level that mandates optimal builds. There's nothing hard or clever about going to noxxic, wowpopular, or elitist jerks and copying their build onto your character.

    TL;DR - It was time for the old talent system to go, GC or no GC.

  19. #439
    77 percent for gc. Can you imagine if a presidential candidate got 77 percent?

  20. #440
    I think naturally that because Ghostcrawler is so high up in the chain of command, a lot of pressure and responsibility bores down upon him. Considering the quality of WoW hasn't vanished and you could argue that it's improved, he's done a pretty awesome job.

    I feel sorry for him though, virtually any change that comes with a patch of hitfix seems to stir a turmoil within the player base which he in some way has to endure, resolve or confront. Kudos to him.

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