View Poll Results: Should Ghostcrawler be replaced as Lead Systems Designer?

Voters
2314. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    526 22.73%
  • No

    1,788 77.27%
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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Why.

    He hasn't even made half the decisions you probably dislike with the game.

    Did you or the guy you're quoting even read the other responses in the thread, or did you just find a need to come into the thread with no actual knowledge on how the development team works and spew unaligned hatred?
    I read the whole thread, every single page and every single post. It is not "unaligned hatred", it is documented instances when GC had to reverse his smug self after his ideas blew up in his face.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    WoW became a great game and industry leader well before GC showed up on the scene. Comparing it to other games is moot. Industry leader should not have collapsing subscriptions it is that simple. Blizzard made other mistakes as well which are beyond GC's control. If I am a new player and want to get started I have to buy Classic+BC+Wotlk Battle Chest and Stack Cata+MOP on top of it. That is for a "9 year old game" as you say. Blizzard resisted merging servers for the longest time and even now is getting ready to do it in its own way. Blizzard never wanted to merge servers not because of any technical problems (numerous other games managed it just fine) but because merging servers would have sent the signal that the game is in trouble. Well the game is in trouble.

    N.B I would have never gotten my TLPD in Wrath or Grey Camel in Cata had CRZ's been implemented back then.
    GC joined in BC when your golden years of WoW existed.

    The guy before GC is also back in the team for the next expansion and they both have similar philosophies.

    You are one of the few who still think the type of game from back in the day (Vanilla, BC) is a better game.

    And, sure, that's your opinion on it. Having that kind of mentality as a developer and moving backwards instead of FORWARDS as the market shifts is just idiocy.

    That is a bad developer.

    If you want a developer with that kind of mindset, by all means for GC. You'll see WoW dead within a year.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    I read the whole thread, every single page and every single post. It is not "unaligned hatred", it is documented instances when GC had to reverse his smug self after his ideas blew up in his face.
    Yes, it kind of is because GC doesn't make half the decisions that happen to the game. He's one of the leads, but by no means does that mean he decides on everything.

    Name a few ideas that blew up in his face.

    If any of your examples include LFR, LFD, etc, don't even respond to my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    When the game goes from 12,500,000 it isn't a single man's fault.

    It can also not even be any person's fault.

    Why do so many of you forget this game is 9 years old?

    Look at Everquest. It's not where near as successful as it used to be.

    Everything wears down with time. Why is that such a hard fact to accept.

    Why do so many people find a need to put a name to their disdain that has no actual aim?

    You're just blaming GC because you don't like the game you don't play anymore.

    It's not even his fault. If you want the game to be around 1 million subscribers, find someone to take his and the other developer positions.
    Who said I don't play anymore? I do play, even before that I paid off my annual pass. My contempt for MOP has not changed though. I consider it to be a failed expansion on many different levels and can't wait to see if another expansion can actually be interesting lore wise.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    Who said I don't play anymore? I do play, even before that I paid off my annual pass. My contempt for MOP has not changed though. I consider it to be a failed expansion on many different levels and can't wait to see if another expansion can actually be interesting lore wise.
    Why is it failed. Because it slowed the subscriber loss after Cataclysm?

    Honestly, the subscriber loss after Wrath was always coming. Wrath was the peak for the game. Blizzard fucked up royally during Cata and they lost more subscribers than they should have.

    This is where opinions differ, but when it comes to lore and MoP I think most people who hold contempt for Mists just hold it because they can't look past the Pandaren.

    Mists' story is some of the best story telling that has been implemented in the game since Wrath. I haven't been this interested since I first stepped foot into Borean Tundra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    GC joined in BC when your golden years of WoW existed.

    The guy before GC is also back in the team for the next expansion and they both have similar philosophies.

    You are one of the few who still think the type of game from back in the day (Vanilla, BC) is a better game.

    And, sure, that's your opinion on it. Having that kind of mentality as a developer and moving backwards instead of FORWARDS as the market shifts is just idiocy.

    That is a bad developer.

    If you want a developer with that kind of mindset, by all means for GC. You'll see WoW dead within a year.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, it kind of is because GC doesn't make half the decisions that happen to the game. He's one of the leads, but by no means does that mean he decides on everything.

    Name a few ideas that blew up in his face.

    If any of your examples include LFR, LFD, etc, don't even respond to my post.
    Off the top of my head:
    1. "Dungeons are supposed to be hard"
    2. MOP rep system where it had to go back to a bastardized way of getting rep through instances
    3. Talent system where Optimum talents still persisted. Most recently they made one of the shammy talents baseline because there was no reason to take anything else in that tier for a shammy healer.

  6. #446
    ROAR! Hulk Angry! Hulk not accept change in Hulk favorite Video Game! Hulk need scape goat! Hulk Blame front man! Hulk smash Ghost Crawler! Hulk smash Puny game man!! Hulk Angry!!! Hulk smash Crab Man! ROAR!!!! - Hulk goes into a Nerd Rage (the most deadly form of anger known to man!) and explodes in a planet shattering Gamma fueled mushroom cloud!

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by kenshinag View Post
    I don't think he will lose his job and I don't think he needs to. This expac was the most risk they've ever taken and I think it worked out.
    lolol

    It did NOT work out.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    Off the top of my head:
    1. "Dungeons are supposed to be hard"
    GC does not design dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    2. MOP rep system where it had to go back to a bastardized way of getting rep through instances
    There was a problem and they did quickest possible fix to it... Would you rather have it remain broken for the end of the expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    3. Talent system where Optimum talents still persisted.
    Hundred times better than old system that had mandatory builds, not just single talents.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    Off the top of my head:
    1. "Dungeons are supposed to be hard"
    2. MOP rep system where it had to go back to a bastardized way of getting rep through instances
    3. Talent system where Optimum talents still persisted. Most recently they made one of the shammy talents baseline because there was no reason to take anything else in that tier for a shammy healer.
    1. Dungeons can be whatever difficulty they should be. They're the primary form of gearing before raiding, thus why should they be difficult? Most of the player base rejected the difficulty of Cata dungeons. Also, to add to that, Mists dungeons weren't super easy. Once you get geared, they become easy. It's the same case in ANY environment (dungeons, scenarios, raiding)
    2. Mists rep system was admitted to initially be a failure and has been fixed/tweeked since then. I haven't seen a single person complain about it since then
    3. The current talent system is a step in the right direction to not be cookie cutter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    GC does not design dungeons.



    There was a problem and they did quickest possible fix to it... Would you rather have it remain broken for the end of the expansion?



    Hundred times better than old system that had mandatory builds, not just single talents.
    Woah! Woah! Hulk wanna be angry and do Nerd Rage on Internet! Hulk no wanna see logic or reason... HULK ANGRY!!!!

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    1. Dungeons can be whatever difficulty they should be. They're the primary form of gearing before raiding, thus why should they be difficult? Most of the player base rejected the difficulty of Cata dungeons. Also, to add to that, Mists dungeons weren't super easy. Once you get geared, they become easy. It's the same case in ANY environment (dungeons, scenarios, raiding)
    2. Mists rep system was admitted to initially be a failure and has been fixed/tweeked since then. I haven't seen a single person complain about it since then
    3. The current talent system is a step in the right direction to not be cookie cutter.
    Did you even read my posts? No, dungeons had no business being hard in Cata. I put it in quotation marks to mock a blog post GC made and which he had to reverse not long thereafter. Cata dungeon difficulty was a major failure and GC even made a blog post about how people essentially needed to L2P. I linked to that blog post from 2011 several posts ago.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    Did you even read my posts? No, dungeons had no business being hard in Cata. I put it in quotation marks to mock a blog post GC made and which he had to reverse not long thereafter. Cata dungeon difficulty was a major failure and GC even made a blog post about how people essentially needed to L2P. I linked to that blog post from 2011 several posts ago.
    What? People make mistakes and then try to fix them as well as they can? Since when?!

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by LordBalkoth View Post
    Did you even read my posts? No, dungeons had no business being hard in Cata. I put it in quotation marks to mock a blog post GC made and which he had to reverse not long thereafter. Cata dungeon difficulty was a major failure and GC even made a blog post about how people essentially needed to L2P. I linked to that blog post from 2011 several posts ago.
    But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.

    I can't bring my self to do dungeons anymore. They are too easy and boring and content like that make me stop playing.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Trogie View Post
    But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.
    Difficulty is relative to a population, not an absolute. I'm sure you're terrible compared to a perfect robot that never makes mistakes.

    So, yes, the dungeons were too hard for the intended audience. Insulting that audience may make you feel better, but otherwise doesn't change a thing.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #455
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    If you fire someone every time they make a mistake you'll always have someone who has never made mistakes to learn from.
    That's true sometimes, but it's a problem when the decisions made went against popular opinion and were sold to us under the guise that fans don't understand what they really want. Subs were soaring under the Wrath model, but a vocal minority were flooding the forums with their epeen tears.

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzyy View Post
    you think that if WoW doesn't continually rise in subs the person in charge is failing?
    Nope, didn't say that. However, it's a huge indicator of a problem in a company when almost half of your customers take their business elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trogie View Post
    But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.
    The game should be tuned to maximize popularity, not to maximize epeen. If it's glory you're looking for, there are schools that need to be built in the developing world. Go for it! ;D

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Trogie View Post
    But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.

    I can't bring my self to do dungeons anymore. They are too easy and boring and content like that make me stop playing.
    They were substantially harder for the average player than WOTLK ones at launch. That is a fact. I never said they were hard for me. But if I queued up with 4 other people and 1-2 were horrible at avoiding 1 shot mechanics or applying CC properly, I had a long dungeon experience.

    For (some) people's viewing pleasure I post a link to a thread I made about why Cata was a failure. (in 2011) It is amusing how at the time people treated 900K subscription loss with contempt saying that only Wrath Newbs and Wrath babies left. 2 years and MILLIONS of subscriptions later, people are still leaving in droves.
    The defense mechanism of treating any subscription loss as minor, saying the game was "old" was as active then as it is now.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...le-defend-Cata
    Last edited by LordBalkoth; 2013-08-16 at 05:08 PM.

  17. #457
    Elemental Lord Duronos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Wrong. TBC trade channel was "lf3m daily heroic: tank, healer and dps (no cc=no inv)". You really did not get pugs as non-CC dps classes. Rogues that didn't spec into improved sap were frequently kicked out of the group for being noobs.
    Umm? Played rogue all the way as my main class since Vanilla and in BC I was getting groups left and right and I sucked at the game. I didn't learn how to be good until Karazhan. Here's my other question, why would you not spec into improved sap? CC is CC and the longer it lasts the better. You were a noob if you didn't do so and to say that a rogue shouldn't be called a noob because he did that makes absolutely no sense. There is a "right" way to play the game, there are sometimes multiple "right" ways to play the game. It's an MMO, why would you not want to spec the best way possible? Theorycrafting is done for a reason and it doesn't take a smart guy to realize that improved sap back then was amazing for 5 mans (not so much for raids).
    Hey everyone

  18. #458
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadstone View Post
    That's true sometimes, but it's a problem when the decisions made went against popular opinion and were sold to us under the guise that fans don't understand what they really want. Subs were soaring under the Wrath model, but a vocal minority were flooding the forums with their epeen tears.
    this just isn't true. subs soared under the classic and bc models and continued up a bit for a few months after wotlk release and began the slow bleed (western) while china growth masked it in the worldwide number.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2013-08-16 at 05:34 PM.
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  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Trogie View Post
    But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.

    I can't bring my self to do dungeons anymore. They are too easy and boring and content like that make me stop playing.
    Would not say never. They were hard in the first implementation, then nerfed so that the majority could do them.

    And dungeons are the reason I play. It's probably one of the bigger contributing factors why I'm unsubbed.

  20. #460
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    I disagree. Class balance is closer than it ever was prior to him joining the development team. He does class and tradeskills and has *input* on other areas. Just like we have input.
    Classes are "balanced" because they've been homogenized to hell and back. Here's your self-heal. Here's your secondary resource. Here's your healing reduction. Here's your interrupt, your silence, and your cc. Here's your buff that you share with two other classes. Here's your burst cooldown and your timing-based rotation. Here's your defensive cooldown. Give Ghostcrawler another two xpacs and there will be one class where the only "choice" you get will be what your armor looks like and what color sparkles you shoot.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

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